hey guys i finally picked up the 88 iroc. the guy showed me where it was melted so i toook pix of the wires and the 2 relays that go to them. here they are

 

'Camaro

The relay socket with tan with white stripe is used to switch Fuel Pump ON-OFF. Control wires are green-white to ECM and tan-white is system ground.

The other one, Black - red strip is used for primary cooling fan. Control wires are Green-white to ECM, brown to fuse panel.

From pictures I can tell you that wire crimps were installed with el-chipo tool and will fail over time. Crimps should be done with a proper tool. The $20 crimper tools available in most auto parts stores are pure junk. The best way to repair wire harness is to use a crimp solderable barrel and shrink tubing. Crimp first to establish mechanical junction, then use solder to make a good electrical junction. Heat shrink tubing takes care of the rest. If you are good, you can use Western Union wire junction and solder instead of barrel. Just my two cents worth on this subject.

You can replace them both to be same 30 AMP rated relay. My favorite target on JY's are mid 80's Cadillacs with 4.1 and 4.9 Liter engines. These cars have a panel of three relays mounted on driver side strut tower. They are all the same (30 Amp) relays - just cut enough of a pig tail - $5 at a most and easy fix.

//RF

 

thanx RF. so what if i just take those crimps off. twist tie the wires together then solder them. will that work? and also will this stop the car from starting and running? also what do you think the reason why those 2 relays and wires melted? thanx

 

'Camaro

Yep, just remove them crimps and strip about 1 to 1.5" of bare wire on each end. When stripping make sure not to nick wire strands. Practice on a peace of junk wire before attempting actual repair. Take a look at Western Union Splice:
http://www.tpub.com/neets/book4/12t.htm

Get some heat shrink tubing from HD or Radio Shack - electrical tape has habit of unwinding itself over time due to temperature extremes. Place it over one of the wires before making a splice. A heat gun can be used to shrink tubing. Note that you have two different wire sizes 10 or 12 AWG for main power and 16 AWG used for control lines - so you'll need different shrink tube sizes (2 to 1 shrink) 1/4 and 3/8 probably a good start (get a kit).

As to why these wires melted - I can only venture a guess. It's possible that a brake fluid got into wire harness and over time weakened insulation. Once arching started the rest of wires' insulation was quickly burned-off due to high temperature. This is not the first time I have seen melted harness in exactly the same spot. Back last summer I helped a fellow in TX with a similar harness meltdown. Just be aware that FP relay is sourced (orange wire) from 30AMP inline relay - next to battery. If PO replaced it with a higher rated fuse - hmmm you get my drift.

//RF

 

hey RF. thanx for the info. sounds like u myte be rite that sum brake fluid got on it. i dont know what he did,. it only looks like the mechanic changed both relays, and crimped those wires. i dont know if he cahnged the fuse. can u show me a pic or know where that fuse it next to the batt? im a lil new to this. thanx again. i will do the wires over myself. like uu have told me.

* Will this stop the car from starting? or running?

 

Yes, Fuel Pump relay is a critical one. No fuel pressure - no engine start. Since you have 88 IROC it must be equipped with TPI. Fuel pressure is critical for these engines 39 to 47 PSI.

Cooling Fan relay will keep your engine from overheating.

Just take your time - do not shotgunned. A good repair job should last, but a bad one will rear its ugly head at the least opportune moment.

I do not have 88 IROC, but if I recall correctly look at passenger side fender well.

Fuse holder should look like this:

//RF

 

hey well yes i think he has changed the relays. if i put in starter fluid in the TB will it start? how do i know if i am getting fuel pressure? it is a TBI setup. also on the passenger side there is 2 pig tails that are not connected. can u tell me what these go to.

 

Peel electrical tape off. Lets take a look at wires. It is hard to say what a heck it is. I can see a barrel crimp sticking in there (Yellow)

Yes, with a little bit of gas or starting fluid into TB it should come to life if dizzy is getting power.

//RF

 

that last pic i took, where do those pig tails go to? im not sure where they go. how do i know if i have fuel pressure?

 

Hey - these look like main power bus feed lines! Note That GM uses red for direct battery connection and orange for a fused lined. IOW, anything connected directly to battery is red and fused is orange. It looks like 10AWG red wire. There should be a terminal post near battery. Let me take a photo of it. These two wires were connected to terminal block via fuse link wire. When PO suffered harness melt down fuse links when up in smoke! I bet your car is dead like door nail - no lights no crank nothing inside works. Please confirm.



//RF

 

ok well i where do they go to? wat am i missing cuz i got them disconnectd. when i bought the car.

 

Boy or boy - you have some serious harness tracing in front of you. I would first find a copy of wiring harness for your car. There are some generic ones out there. I noticed that you've posted in multiple forums - just post in TBI in the future. Moderators do not like multi postings, plus it keeps everything tidy for the future reference.

//RF

 

hey i saw ur pix um that first 1 wit the fuse. that is still connected on the passenger side fender. i believe. that 2nd pic. whit the 3 wires connectd to a post. where do i find that? the car has power. lights and everything. interior lites, and the only thing is the batt is dead. but it does crank for a hot min. but the battery doesnt have enuff power.

 

Thats the problem - you need to get a wiring schematic specific to your car. Since you have interior power then it is being supplied via starter connection. To tell you the truth I do not know what those two red wires are used for. Take a look at them closely and trace them - it is possible PO installed them to power big stereo PA!?

Check fuse in the holder (per photo) - it should be around 20Amp. That line supplies power to FUEL pump & ECM. One wire should be red and another should be orange.

//RF

 

i think u are right about those 2 wires for a big radio. i will check them tomm. as for the fuse holder i will check that also. but if i got power for the interior lights, i also have headlights, dashboard lights, the gauges work, brake lights everything works. i just dont know if it will crank yet cuz the batt is chargin, as u can see i have a dry cell stinger that was completly dead so i have to see if it is workin and holdn a charge.

 

OK, it may not be as bad as I thought. This internet troubleshooting can be challenging at times! Yes, I forgot that main power for interior is fed via starter terminal. I've noticed that you have a DVM.

Here is a check that you can run - remove fuse from fuse holder (the one next to the battery) - place one test lead into orange wire socket of the fuse holder and the other into the fuel pump relay socket - same orange wire. You should have continuity (very low resistance). After that move one test lead to ground - it should be open circuit.

//RF

 

u mean a test light rite? and wat is a DVM? i just think that what u sed aboiut the brake fluid getttn on the wires was wat happnd. cuz the engine is great only has 100k on it and also i dnt see any other problems. but basically the car has been sitting for 3 years now. lol

 

Yes, DVM - resistance check is a bit of a safer option. Well, since you have 20 year old car expect strange things like that. Once you get her to fire up expect to have more problems. One of the most common is the fuel pump. 3rd gens have FP inside gas tank. It is PITA to do it, but new FP solves a lot of problems. You might be in luck if PO replaced it. It also may explain harness fire - pinched wire, wrong FP, etc.

BTW, FP relay socket (square) is incorrect type for your car. These square sockets were used in 70's and do not offer environmental protection that PED weather pack sockets and connectors offer. My guess, and it is common for FP relay to melt original socket. It happens every so often. Take a look. See brown stuff around one of the contacts - thats melted plastic! Over time socket contact resistance increases and heat begins to melt socket plastic.

TBI system does not need high pressure FP 20 to 25 at the pump will do, while stock TB regulator brings it down to about 14 PSI. Since the car sat for a long time gas tank is a mess - there is probably crud on unimaginable scale!!! Just another reason to drop it and service it. Expect to replace fuel pick up assembly along with FP. Take gas tank to radiator shop that specializes in gas tanks as well.

Enough for tonight - TBC
//RF

 

yes i see that brown stuff, i have seen it on a few clips on my car too. well the relay he got from a junk yard and it fits. im sure he got the right 1 but since u say its wrong ill go out to the junkyard and see if i can find 1. im guessin that fuel pump is no good, and i should replace it. how hard is it to drop the fuel tank and replace the pump?

Wat is a DVM? digital volt meter?

yeah the car sat. what else do i need to look at or how do u clean out the gas tank? there is gas in it now. what do i do syphen it out? or burn it off?
what is a fuel pick up? and how much do they run for?

PITA stands for wat?

and what is that last pic of u sent me?

 

OK, yes expect plenty of work, but do not be afraid of it.

DVM - Digital Volt Meter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltmeter
PITA - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=PITA

Dropping a gas tank and replacing fuel pump (FP) is covered here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...fuel-pump.html
and here with more details
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...-dropping.html

The last picture is of the relay and socket looking at the contacts. As I've said before moisture, dirt and other contaminates getting into the relay socket can make a real mess - or even worst a fire!

Brakes is another area of concern for car that sat in storage for while - expect to bleed the brake system. Brake fluid is know to absorb moisture. Moisture means rust. Rust and brake system internals make for a dangerous combination.

You can replace both relays to be same 30 AMP rated relay. My favorite source for these relays on JY's are mid 80's Cadillacs with 4.1 and 4.9 Liter engines. These cars have a panel of three relays mounted on driver side strut tower. They have different square shape, but they're same (30 Amp) relays - just cut enough of a pig tail - $5 at a most and an easy fix. Just make sure that sockets are in good shape and do not have discoloration. Bring DVM to check relay coil (they should be between 70 to 120 Ohms). Contact resistance should be near 0 for a good relay. Most, but not all relays are SPDT (single pole double through) Some are SPST - single pole, single throw.

Once you get squared away with relay sockets and relays will dive into get her started (just make sure you got good battery)


//RF

 

hey man im goin to get a batt today. and im goin to the junk yard tomm, soo i want to find a an 80's cadillac with a 4.1 or 4.9 liter engine wit a 30 amp relay? or shoud i just find another camaro? need sum more info b4 i go and buy sum stuff. a freind of myne sed i wouldnt need to drop the tank. just put a gas additive in the tank and it will clean out the fuel lines and tank. as for brakes im gettn new rotors and new pads. just for the rear wat should i do wit the drums? it took like 25 mins took get 1 rim off cuz they were rusted shut on there. lol. thanx for the help hope u can give me more info thanx

 

Killacamaro, you can get the wiring diagrams on CD from Ebay for $5.00 or so. If you don`t have a good factory manual, considering the shape your wiring is in, you should get one and it should have the wiring diagrams in it.

 

Third gens could be rather scarce on JYs. All you need is 30 amp relay and socket with about 12 to 18 inches of wire - so just about any 80's GM car can be a source.

Gas additive will not help - your friend has never repeatedly stalled on a highway in a middle of nowhere. Unless PO put gas stabilizer into the tank before putting into storage expect tar pit in the bottom of the gas tank. Plus, fuel strainer will get clogged and while pump will try to lift gas (over heating in process). Over heating pump will draw more current - which probably what caused harness meltdown.

Have drums turned, get a brake hardware kit, clean mounting pads - use some lithium based grease on contact points - where brake shoes come in contact with backing plate. Take a look at brake cylinder seals - they should be dry.

//RF

ne

 

hey RF, ok sounds good with the relays, i got that down.

sooo i really have to drop the tank? and if i do, should i replace the pump, and put a nice walbro? or just replace with a stock?

when u say turnd what do u mean? about drums?

is the haynes manual a good source for wire diagrams?

 

'Camaro

Alright so I guess you got relay hunting under control. Ideally it would be nice if you get relay socket with same color wires, It is not necessary, but would make for cleaner installation. Make a list of colors used by relay socket(s).

For example FP Relay used:
Color | Gage (AWG) | Function
ORN | 12 | (NO) Fused Battery
RED | 12 | (NC) FP test (to terminal G of ALDL)
Tan-Wht | 12 | (Common) Fuel Pump
Blk-Wht | 16 | System Ground
Grn-Wht | 16 | ECM Control line

You got the idea???

Haynes manual are not good source for wire diagrams - they are incomplete and good as a bathroom companion. The best source for schematics and other info is a Helms manual - these are factory authored publications. Very nice - very expensive when new. Used can be had for small sum (for example Ebay 200189872509) Alternatively jimdutro suggested CD of Ebay. Also, I found that http://www.alldatadiy.com can provide good information, but it is a subscription service - you can buy a year worth.

Turning drums:
http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/artic...ticle_id=60199
If you have never done brakes before then find some one experienced to do your brakes - it is a safety, liability issue!

//RF

 

hey rf

yeah im goin to the junk yard in a lil bit. also i think im gunna go carb.

can u tell me what sensors n relays im gunna need from the harness? because i got the msd 8360 distributor, msd 6a box, wires and coil. im gunna get the 1406 carb, and performer intake. i think that is a sweet setup and will run better then the TBI **** i have now. hope fully i can do this rite.


also everything else on the car looks great. i havent seen any other wires that were meltd. just a few rusty parts but a simple me can fix it.

thanx again

 

TBI to Carb is a big mistake.

EOM

 

why do u think its a big mistake?

welll i finally got the battery. everything turns rite up and all lights wrk

here is the deal. i put the fuel relay in. pump turns on i hear it. but its on even when the car is off. it doesnt turn off until i pull the relay out. i put sum starter fluid in the TB, car starts but doesnt stay running. i tryed like 5 times but still no go. tryed to give it gas, a lil gas but no go once air got in the throttle body it turnd rite off. what can it be? why isnt the car staying running??

 

1) Putting Carb on TBI will never pass state smog inspection.
2) Carb equipped car will have lower resale value.
3) EFI offers superior drivability over carb. I have worked on carbs since I was 16 - everything from simple 2GS, 4MV, Q-Jets, 2x Solex, Weber side-drafts, SU's (on Italian crap), Holleys, Carter, etc. Modern EFI still offers better overall performance for the street.

Fuel pump should only come up for 2 seconds when you cycle ign key from off into run position. I think that you wired Normally Closed (NC) instead of NO set of contacts in the relay sockets. NC will keep your FP running all the time when ign is off and turn off when you really needed! Take couple pictures of what you have wired so far. Got to make sure relay is wired right first!


//RF

 

Killacamaro, I will mail you the wiring diagrams for your car if you give me your address and zip. I just printed them out so they are ready to go. Let me know, Jim.

 

hey jim i got them from my mechanic he was nice enuff to give them to me, thank you anyway i appreciate all the help.

RF..... i really would like to go carb but if u say TBI is better, i just wish i knew why. i was thinking if i changed the intake manifold, i would get better airflow. and other flows. and changd my ignition cuz i have all msd, i would get better spark. am i wrong or am i looking at it the wrong way?

thanx guys

 

The limiting factor on your car's engine are tiny cam, small heads and very restrictive exhaust system. Slapping carburetor will not yield desired results and more than likely will kill off drivability. Do not do it!!!

//RF