Not sure if this should go on the prom board but...

I currently run MAF on my 89 IROC. I am considering a change to SD or EBL (Dynamic EFI right?). I am perfectly happy with the system now except my gutted MAF sensor is starting to act up and the cost of a new MAF justifies the expenses of changing. Also, I am going to install a 383-427 in the near future so that would be my motivation to change systems. I think the MAF system may have some limitations. This is a street driven modestly cammed (212/218) and geared (3.27) 5 speed car with power brakes. I currently idle at 750 w/17 inhg.

I would like to hear some imput from those who are running each type of control system on big cubic inch cars. Hopefully, with modest setups like I have. Their likes/dislikes and cost to swap over. Not trying to fuel the MAF vs SD debate but the characteristics of each system are relavent.

BTW Emission testing is not a requirement in my state- yet. So no EGR AIR cats etc.

 

I like ease of tuning maf, and it runs fine with larger inch motors up near 500 hp. People say stock maf is a restriction but my 11.4's 1/4 mile all motor 383 didnt see any change when going from gutted stocker to custom 3.5" maf and cai.

You can easily repin stock harness to speed density. I did that on my 89. Delete maf wires and add map wires. Some just reuse maf wires for the map, depending where you mount them.

Working ve tables is more time consuming but the 730 ecm has more fuel control than 165 ecm. Have more tables to use for higher rpms. 165 maf limit is usually pegged by 4000 rpm on hot big inch motors, so your fuel control comes from pe mode vs rpm which allows entries to 6400. You can fuel to 7000 basically if you set 6400 % large enough to hang on til 7k.

Other than that, i dont see much difference either way for your typical 500 and under hp motors

 

Quick note on the EBL systems. Currently they are all SD, need a MAP sensor (1, 2, or 3 bar). For a '85 - '89 TPI car it is easiest to use the EBL Flash ECM with the Port Mod.

To use the EBL P4 is a major re-pinning operation.

RBob.

 

I thought you had some experience here. Thanks for chiming in. And yes, the maf seems forgiving however I haven't used sd. I'm not looking to build wild horsepower, just torque. Probably stay in the 383-406 range for cost reasons but either way it's a 5500ish rpm motor. Fuel control is what I really am looking for. Not just for the high end though but more overall. Plus since a stock maf is a few hundred bucks I felt it is worth considering options. I have settled on running in open loop for now since it seems easier to get the idle and mid throttle afr where it runs best. Maybe it's my lack of tuning ability but ??

Now when we speak of maf modifications, I descreened mine and cut most of the fins off inside cause in my early tuning life I thought it would help. Of course my maf tables took a bunch of work and that may be the root of some of my fueling issues. I would prefer to go back to closed loop operation some day lol. I get a "low maf" light on cold starts and sometimes the afr does funny things (WB)

This is a mostly street driven vehicle. The reality of it is most of the time rpm is in the 1500-2500 range. Of course I sometimes run it up to 3500-4000 going through gears and there's the lonely road occasion where it sees 5500 or so. Loaded question here but, what would you do? Take a look at my sig if you don't mind. If I end up replacing my maf should I gut it or just leave it alone and start my tune over again? I'd like to get it sorted out for the most part before going for larger ci.

 

Rbob you're the EBL guy right?

I am ok with sd, adding a map and repining. Other than that I am hoping for a better way to tune. You can see from my sig and replies I am not wanting to go all out. Just more control. And I like the look of the dash on the ebl. It seems like everything is there at a glance. With the stock ecm and tunerpro, it seems like there is a lot going on in the background and I don't know what it is and what effect it is having. I thought the ebl system (whichever one) would provide a more complete "window" into the whole operation. Am I mistaken on this?

Oh and i'd like to hear my right front speaker again someday.

 

Yes.

Not mistaken. The dash is good, but the data log analysis is even better. Lots of data available for the tuner. The auto VE Learn is also a great asset as it really cuts the time down on the SD VE table side of the tune.

Sorry, can't help you there...

RBob.

 

For what you want to do, less work is just finding another working maf. It works well for part throttle and you shouldnt have much fueling issues if any. If you do that just descreen it carefully. Leave the fins. Gut the tpi airbox filter bottoms. That will help feed the larger cubes.

Big downside to 165 is getting consistant communication between ecm and laptop lol. That can be annoying. 730 and ebl shouldnt have a problem. A wideband o2 helps. I tuned my 383 maf strictly by wideband and ran open loop. Never recorded a log just watched the screen from time to time and wrote notes lol since then tuned a few cars via logs and done well.

Fuel control at cruise either way i dont feel speed density offers any advantage over maf. I think the main advantage is more control at higher rpms. EBL has alot of nice features and ve learning does help dial in a tune much faster. EBL i believe has nitrous control too, that can be nice depending how you use your system

Its up to you.

 

Well since my ecm is covering the speaker... you really can! lol

Thanks for the input guys.

 

The EBL datalogging was clearly built by someone (RBob) who has an appreciation of what it takes to tune properly. The tools EBL has are just as important as the ECM capability itself.