Just purchased EBL Flash "used" (still BNIB ) ...researching WBs, and I see several (maybe all?) have a NB output as well as WB. Any reason to keep my current NB, and weld in a bung for a NEW, additional WB02 sensor? ...or can I just run ONE new sensor in the current location? One that has a NB and WB out?

 

It is better to add the WB O2 sensor mount shortly before the cat-con(s). The stock NB location is usually too close to the engine for a WB sensor. The high temperature will ruin the WB sensor.

RBob.

 

OK cool...I can do that. See, this is why I ask questions. Woulda kept it where it was. Thanks

 

Don't feel like starting my own thread since it's sorta close.


What would be a ruff length from the header collector to installed the wb? IE a shorty or LT

 

I prefer to place the sensor at least 3 feet from the exhaust ports.

RBob.

 

Other than sensor life, is there any reason you wouldn't use the WB's simulated NB signal?

I'm currently running innovate motorsport MTX-L wide band and have the bung welded in about 12" past the (shorty) collector. I first located the WB sensor after the "Y" but it didn't seem accurate there, or at least delayed. I also speculated the reading may have been off since the pipe is 3 1/2" and got strange readings at part throttle. I still use the stock NB sensor for the ECM which is located in the header collector.

I am thinking about using the simulated NB output of the WB for the ECM. I notice that the NB signal doesn't "match up" well with the reported WB readings. Your thoughts?

 

No it won't unless the temps are way way out of the normal range.

 

Yes it will, do some research on the Bosch WB sensors... I'll save you some trouble:

https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/...cat=250&page=2
https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/...cat=250&page=2

On top of that the bung we include with our kit is the Bosch recommended 13mm+ length for "hot applications." This is to help keep the sensor cooler.

Now go through some threads where folks were killing sensors, which prompted Innovate to release the above products.

RBob.

 

Like I said, unless the temps are way out of whack you'll be fine. If you're running 1300*+ in a normally aspirated application then you're on the edge anyway.

 

So now all of the sudden it is properly tuned NA applications that are OK. What about boosted and N2O apps, or someone that is getting their NA app tuned in?

Fact is, Bosch WB sensors are sensitive to heat. Put the sensor downstream and let it live.

RBob.

 

My NB is at the shorty header collector and WB is around the corner about 16" past the collector. The WB has held up for about a year and a half and ~20k.

I just installed a SPDT switch so I can select which sensor reports O2 signal to the EBL. My MTX-L Wide band system has a simulated narrow band signal. Let me say that the sim NB signal is WAYYY better. Now my INT and BLM keep the AFR right in the middle. It still fluctuates and moves a little lean/rich but the difference is night and day.

Now the question is why. It stands to reason the computer now keeps fueling in line with the WB reading but that doesn't really mean the tune is better. I had recently replace the NB sensor. It's a heated bosch sensor so it "should" have been accurate. I speculate the WB's sim NB signal is more precisely calibrated and think the NB's location at the collector may have exposed it to wildly varying exhaust pulses. Plus the NB sensor is right under the 5 & 7 primaries which fire 90 apart causing strange things on both sides of the cylinder. Regardless, changing from NB to WB/sim NB took a tune that was being very difficult to get consistent and straightened it right out. And if there is a problem with the WB I can just switch over to the NB and get home.

 

I've never been a fan of the Bosch NB O2 sensors. On one car with an '85 LG4 and mild cam, when I switched out the Bosch NB to an AC Delco NB, the engine ran smoother. It was definitely noticeable.

This was with stock CI exhaust manifolds, and a TBI conversion.

As for what you are/were experiencing, it is a good possibility that the NB location wasn't ideal.

RBob.

 

Interesting comment regarding Bosch vs AC Delco NB sensor. It seemed before the "tune" was hunting all the time. For example, at times it would pull fuel when the WB was reporting lean and other times it would add fuel when WB reported rich. Also, when I had it running well on a long hiway drive, blm steady and close to 128, after a traffic stop or two it would almost always start pulling fuel and going lean. I wonder if it was the NB getting too hot or cool and affecting the O2 signal. ]

I agree the NB location may have been part of the problem. It would be interesting to locate the NB down stream where the WB is located to see if it makes a difference.

Could I connect the NB output to one of the EBL Aux inputs to at least have something to compare to the WB signal? One problem with using the sim-NB signal is while it does agree with the WB there's no way to know if it is accurate. The true NB is at least an independent rich/lean signal.

 

Would need to buffer the signal first, then feed it to the ADC input. An O2 sensor is a high impedance device and won't correctly drive the ADC input. The NB input to the ECM has such a buffer chip that is designed specifically for this purpose. Such as the National Semiconductor LM1964 chip.

RBob.