Just like other post states,Headers are glowing at idle....
BLM's are 128,I have lowered timing to 20 flat at idle.
Both headers glowing right at collector where4 itermediates meet
??
Now I do have an collector flange gasket bad that I thought might be screwing up O2,but I would think that would make me rich being that fresh oxygen may be being sucked in..

Please,any and all help appreciated .

 

Ok noticed something else wierd while trying to figure this out,
was cruising along at 2200 rpm ,BLM'S were at 132 and holding but intergrator was at 116 steady??
Why is inergrator showing rich but blm's lean?
Could this be a bad O2?

just prior to this engine swap 350 was blowing alot of oil out exhaust,would that foul 02?

Please,I can really use help here.

 

Well if anyone cares ,I tried to lower 02 toggle voltage to 548-503
from 598-563 and also moved timing at idle to 35 degrees.

It seems the glow moved closer to heads,on the bends now,not sure thats good or not though.
I also move dist. manually advanced and retard to see if glow would go-but it seemed no change reguardless. I was asuming that it would imediatly go away if timing was the problem.

Please could somebody help here......
Wel its about 03:30 here and neibors are probably pretty red theselves right bout now.

 

Barring mechanical issues it's really hard to say what you have going on.

The oem sensor can be lied to rather easily so that's not even a guarantee of where you're at.

For an exhaust to get that hot, means afterburning is going on. Too Rich, or lean enough to cause a miss, can do it. As well as too much or too far of retarded timing.

You need to back way up on your tune and start again, it sounds like.

AND remember just to give the engine what it wants, not what you want to give to it.

 

Well the miss I found was the 2 plug boots deffinetly ,getting melted by the header.
My W/B is saying 14.7 and my BLM'S are 128 +/- 2,Ive tried going back to a stock bin changing only inj. constants and V/E .
Was still glowing,I/m gonna change the o2 and see what happens I guess. Maybe lower toggle voltage some more to just see if it gets any better,Like I said it seemed it moved closer to the head by advancing timing and reducing o2 toggle voltage.
Anything else you would try? I need ideas

 

Ok,I think or hope I found problem...
Today I changed 02 and checked timing with a light (would have done earlier but someone had my light)
Timing was considerably retarded, and I guess had been retarding itself for the last few weeks, cause et has been going south.
Here is the weird part,I fixed timing and restrted car-soon as closed loop enebled headers glowed again
But then I restarted again and all good then took for a ride,put in dark garage and still good. Man I guess its been moving slightly but tight enough to not feel loose. response and drivability much,much better and smoother.

 

87 I just noticed your post. I was reading through it and was going to suggest you use a dial type iming light to verify the scanner total timing was equal to the light dial. A few things can cause it to be off, as I suspected you glowing was a result of too far retarded timing, and the fuel is burning in the pipes.

1. Cause can obivously be the base timing is off.

2. Which is not so obvious with a non-dial timing light, is the balancer's outter part slipped and you think your setting the base timing correctly, but since the balancer outter part is off from the keyway, your actaully retarded or advanced.

Sounds like that your base was just off.

Good luck!

 

I ran into this problem on a car not too long ago it was over cammed for the tpi swap. I had to increase the the initial timing setting steadly until I could advance the mechanical setting to a point where the headers got less hot and then I dialed in some fuel in the ve tables at idle. I t worked pretty well this was a speed density setup with a 730 ECM.

 

Ok guys,
Well I had found as mentioned earlier that the dist had been moving on me even though it was pretty tight.
I thought I had problem fixed,not so
It is deffinetly improved,and the car seems to run and drive excellent. Wideband A/F is 14.7 at idle,blms are 128ish still.
Timing is showing 25 at idle with light . I thought I had it all ironed out,the car is running great right now,excellent response
Smooth driving ,pulls real hard.!!!
But after about 1-2 minutes at idle they start glowing again.
Not as bad ,but still getting hot.

 

Interesting find with headers glowing,
After an hour of open loop iding and reducing fuel by 20 % to see if there is a difference in header heat I noticed this..
I seen most of my plugs arching between the heads and the hex on the spark plugs.. Also noticed a few wires arching,even the coil wire against the trans dipstick trube which is far away from the headers heat.
Im sure this would cause unburnt fuel,but what is causing this??
they are brand new wires installed after the glowing problem
(taylor spiro pro). Please help,what would cause this?

 

87_TA,

I had the same problem with the Taylor spiral's. I sent them back and got the Taylor 409s. They are expensive and look like jumper cables, but several guys I know have used them for years with zero problems. They are almost .5 in in diameter. They take a beating and never crack or loose their ability to insulate.

I suggest you get a set!

Also check to see if your ceramic is cracked on the plugs themselves. I cracked on last year and saw it right away on startup, arching to the hex head as you describe. That could be accounting for a lot of problems you are having. Good job!

 

Thanks Ski
Well not sure thats it,just got done talking to MSD and they said with a CD ignition that is actually common..... hmmmm,He said they call it an AURORA if thats spelled right.
But I did just burn another chip that and reduced fuel again for a total of 30% from where it was.
Well header glow is not present that I saw but 02 voltage was pretty much staying at 4 mv sometimes would toggle to 16 and back.

 

87,

They said that jumping ignition spark to other objects is common? Common in the sense that its a common problems and needs fixed, or common event and its OK?

If they told you the latter of the two I would tell them they are full of it. There is only so much energy developed and delievered to the spark plug. If some of its escaping and jumping to other components then that much is not reaching the spark plug. Sure there might be enough to fire the cylinder, but maybe no enough to completely and effectively combust the mixture.

By the way what do you mean by CD ignition?

Grab ahold of the wires while they are running and see if you get zapped, that is how I found the bad wire I had. Trust me you will see how much juice is running through them real quick.

I wouldn't dismiss that as not being your problem so quick.

Also I did not follow what you were saying about voltage at 4mv sometimes either. Please explain a little more. Thanks.

 

Hey Ski,
They said that arcing around the hex of the plug to the cylinder head is common. He said it can be reduced by using diaelectric grease on boots.. That may be common but wires arcing to other objects is not and that i'm sure of. I know a wire will take path of least resistance,so if spark is not being completed than it will jump through casing and other places even if wire is good.
I have not yet ruled that ,Im sure these problems are related I just don't know which one is causeing which..
As far as CD ignitions,Stands for capacitive discharge like the MSD 6AL .
The 02 mv should toggle from a single or double digit number up to 450 mv and back, I have the car so lean that mine is staying at 4mv.

No need to thank me ski,you are the one helping
Thank you.

 

Might be way off base, but have you checked rocker nut adjustment? I had glowing headers once due to the exhaust not closing all the way after a cam install.

 

Your not off base at all,I would possibly suspect that ,but all the tubes are glowing.
I just got off the phone with TPIS,They said try closing the plug gap and also making another engine ground.
Im gonna go try both.

 

87,

If this were happening to me, and the MSD or CD unit was suspect I would just slap the regular, HEI distributer on the car and see if the problem disappears. MAybe your trying to send too much juice through the system, doubtful, but maybe something else is the matter with the current ignition configuration.

Also check the point inside the cap, that contacts the rotor. My dads was cracked and it caused all sorts of problems on and off. Also I heard that sometimes if that button is not the correct one, it will have too much resistance and explode due to heat or cause intermittant problems.

Go back to the original HEI and see what happens.

 

I have the same problem on an 87 superram 383 camaro with Ford 30# injectors and 43# of fuel pressure. I have the injector constant set up to 35# and still glowing

 

What is the verdict???

 

Yeah but you still enable closed loop so ecm is making correction and going right back where it was.
You can lower o2 toggle voltage to lean car though.

Don't think either of us have one yet Ski...
I talked to TPIS and they said my rings may not be seated yet and oil is doing that.. don't think though.
Im gonna have to get hold of a compression guage.

 

don't waste your time with a compression guage. My top rings came out in pieces and the compression tests from various gages all said +/- 2 psi.

Get yourself a leakdown tester. Its a million time more accurate. When I did that I knew on the first cylinder I was in need of a new engine.

 

Well have been running the car in open loop still,headers are much cooler but still kick a little glow in the dark every once in a while.
Got it to run a little better last night as well,traction was a little down so I had to come out easy.
I should be hitting track again sat. long as weather holds.

 

What was the trick?

 

Well Primo,When ECM enables closed loop you arere making fuel corrections.so if you lean it out above 128 blms the ECM will compensate.
What I did was disable closed loop fueling therefor allowing mne to lean engine as much as I want.
I cut the whole lower VE by 15 %.

 

I would be a little skeptical about the arcing from the plugs to the heads being normal. I have seen everything from msd's lineup (digital 7, 7al,10, etc), and with a good high quality wire, have never had an arcing problem. Id agree with ski, get some better wires. I really like MSD's top line wires. We use em on prettymuch everything without issues. The header glowing may be a result of the voltage leaking out, would behave like late timing, as some of the energy needed to burn is wasted.
Bob