Hi there, hoping someone can answer my question. I have been looking into having a chip burnt for my 91 Z with a 383 and blower. Some people in the ECM forum convinced me to look into burning the proms myself. I've been doing a little reading and I'm looking for my foundation of parts. I got everything from the tutorial, I'm just looking to make sure I have all the correct things I need to start burning, besides knowledge and experience :P

Here is the list as I have it. If I'm missing anything can you please let me know. Also can someone verify that this is the correct EEPROM to use?

Thanks

Xtronics Pocket Programmer
http://www.xtronics.com/memory/EPROM.htm
PN: 1-PP2
$150

Tuner Cat
http://www.tunercat.com
Bin Editor
$70

Spare EEPROM
http://www.jdr.com/interact/default.asp
32KX8 CMOS 150NS 28DIP
PN: 28C256-150
$9

Craig Moates EPROM Adapter ZIF to ECM
http://moates.net/gmecm/hardware.html
PN: G1
$35

 

Many of the board members here recommend the PP2, and you can get advice here if you have problems- so that seems like a good way to go.

As for Tunercat, the screenshots always look good to me, but you can just as easily save the money and use Mangus' TunerPro, which does virtually everything I want to do (read- "am capable of doing" ).

I don't have a Moates adaptor (I'd like to though!), but I think you need the GP1 package which has the ZIF socket and the flash chip (he sells them cheaper than the price you're quoting from JDR).

Importantly, you also need a scan tool. This means a cable to download ALDL data, software to interpret it, and a laptop to log the data. Moates has freeware for this, but there appears to be other good packages around too.

John

 

Alright I'll look into tunerpro as another option, preferebly if I can save money

I'll look into his kit. I like the idea of the eeproms though so I don't have to worry with a uv light. I'll check and see if his are eeproms or eproms.

Ok I didn't realize I had to have the scan tool, but I guess it makes sense. Any recommendations on what and where to get one?

Thanks

 

You don't need UV erase with that chip.

What ECM and code are you planning to use? It sounds like with the blower, you'll need a '749 or a '730 with $58 code? If I was doing this as a learning project, I'd be learning without the blower on first.

John

 

Ok I'm not finding the Tunerpro anywhere, got a link by chance?

Also I looked at Craigs package deal and it appears that the chips are eprom, not eeprom, also it's got a different part number than described in the programming article, so I think I might just stick with getting it seperately.

 

JohnL: If it were only so easy to do it without the blower. All my bracketry, intake design etc is all modified now because of the blower. To remove it would complicate things too much.

That's why I was originaly going to have someone else burn my chip.

As far as the ecm and code go I have no idea. As I stated this is my first look into all this stuff. I'm not planning on buying anything or starting this stuff anytime soon until I've had enough time to research and figure out what the heck I'm doing. I was just looking for a basis on the hardware I would need to get into doing the burning myself.

I guess I will have to look into changing the ecm and code also in addition to everything else I'm trying to figure out

 

There is stuff all over this board on Tunerpro. Use the search feature or just look in the stickies.
Man, those C2 Moates "eproms" must take a strong UV light to erase. There's no quartz window in them!

Read the details on the Moates site here. It says "can be flash-reprogrammed many times without UV eraser".

John

 

I didn't see where it said can be reprogrammed, I still don't in fact, but I'll take your word.

Question for you. As far as the ECM goes how do I determine exactly which ecm I have? As far as I could tell from the programming article I have a p4 ecm, but all the posts and information I'm reading have numbered ecms like the 749 you mentioned . Also where can I find info on switching to the different ecm and code? I checked through the forums and don't see any posts regarding it.

Thanks

 

Click on the red "here" in my last post and it takes you to Moates' site's hardware order section. Scroll down to GP1 and you'll see he says you get two C2's. Scroll up to the chip section, go to C1 and you'll see the reprogramming quote you couldn't find, and Craig's recommendation that you buy the cheaper C2's from him.

This info is on this site, or you could just have a look at the numbers on the ECM in your car. I'd say you have a '730 if the car started off as a 350, but my 3G knowledge is minimal.

To find out about code switching, read the $58 FAQ thread.

You need to read a whole lot more of this site and other resources (eg DIY-EFI archives). I must have read 6 months' back posts before I thought about doing anything, and followed a whole lot of other linked earlier threads. This is a steep learning curve, but the best fun you'll ever have modifying anything .

John

 

Ahh well that explains it, I didn't read on the C1 because the kit came with the C2 shrug.

I will take a look at that article, thanks for pointing it out. I do plan on doing alot of reading as I stated in earlier posts. I don't know anywhere near enough to start out now.

Thanks for the input John.

 

Hey John as far as the ecm swap goes, the $58 article you were refering too, was that the article on switching to the syclone ecm, or am I missing the article you mentioned?

 

1990-1992 stock TPI uses a P4 730 ECM. Here is a Link to be able to change your 730($8D) ecm to the 749 ($58)ECM which is better for blown and Supercharged applications.Click Here

Also check out this Post PROMinator the PROMinator eliminates the need for EPROM programmers and erasers needed to modify engine calibration parameters. It also eliminates the need to keep piles of EPROMs handy. The PROMinator is NOT an emulator...it is a PERMANANT replacement for an EPROM. Once programmed the data is permanently stored until reprogrammed.

Also TunerPro Web site is http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/

Hope I helped Some

 

Before you get too wrapped up into finding a '749 ECM, the $58 mask also runs in your current '730 ECM. Will only need to swap a couple of pins in the connector(s), which is true if either ECM is used. They will both work for your environment, the '730 being cheaper & easier to find.

RBob.

 

MTPFI, thanks for the info, I will look into it at a later time.

Rbob, ok that answers some of the questions, but wouldn't the 749 ecm still work better with boost? I've been doing some reading already and it seems like all in all it's a better solution to run the 749 rather than just changing the masks, or is the blower aspect derived from the mask, and not the ecm itself?.

But it's all a learning curve, I appreciate everyones help. Just have to be patient with myself and keep reading

 

This is it here: . . .or is the blower aspect derived from the mask, and not the ecm itself?. Yes.

The '749 is a '730 short one quad driver with a 2nd injector driver (of which you don't need).

RBob.

 

Rbob: Alright thanks. That seems to make my life much easier. Now could you point me towards an article on just upgrading the mask?

Everything I've found so far is in reference to changing the whole ecm, I'm not seeing anything on changing just the mask from the $8D to the $58?

Again thanks everyone!

 

I'm not Rbob, but I'll save his fingers the effort. He posted "The '749 is a '730..." so what you need to see is that when you put a $58 mask BIN into a '730, it thinks it's a '749. Remember in Total Recall when Arnie had the "holiday chip" implant? So although it hasn't got the extra injector driver, it won't admit it (and you've been told "you won't need it") and it won't recognise that it is carrying a surplus quad driver (I'm still confused about this as to how you lock up a TCC w/o this driver, but anyway...).

The link you have from MTPI-MAF to bort's site shows what you have to do for a 730 harness when you install $58 code in the ECM. There is also the $58 FAQ post I referred to before, and which you seem to have found.

John

 

John: Alright thanks. I wasn't sure if the one I found was the one you were refering too because it was a syclone swap also. That's where my confusion came from.

I started reading the article and from what I can gather the extra bar maps provide the ability for the ecm to correctly read the boost.

Now I'm currently running 14psi of boost, and as stated in that article to correctly read up to 14psi of boost you need 2 bar map. Over 14 you need 3. So if this is really the case that the standard 730 cannot read that much boost I feel I do indeed need to swap to the 749.

I would hesitate to say that although the $58 mask alone in my 730 would help because the ecm would now know what boost was, if I'm going to go through all this I might as well do the 749 so it knows exactly what boost I have.

Am I correct in these assumptions?

 

No, you are not correct.

I'm not sure where you're getting confused. How about trying to explain the answer to this question: "In what way is a '730 with a $58 mask ID binary and correctly wired (including a 2 Bar MAP sensor, etc) not as good as a '749 in your car?".

What Rbob's post was getting at is that a "'730 is a '749" (with a couple of important qualifications which don't affect your car).

John

 

"The 7749 Computer Is very similar to the 7730 in construction, but it uses a 2 or 3 bar MAP input. This allows it to read from 14.7" of Vacuum up to 14.7(2 bar) or ~28(3 bar) PSI of Boost."

I read that from the article posted earlier and misunderstood it to say that the 730 couldn't use the 2 or 3 bar map inputs. I didn't realize you could simply change the input itself along with the $58.

That's where I got confused.

So basicly all I have to do is burn the $58 bin into my prom then modify from there because the $58 bin has all the info on boost etc.

 

Now you're on track .

Note that you can't use a 3 Bar MAP sensor on $58 code unless you download one of the modified BINS around. Others would be better to tell you how to do this. But a newbie DIY-PROM project with 2 Bar boost sounds scary. I've found I'm certain to break something every time I try something new- maybe that's the attraction! Breaking a nice big engine is something I'd prefer to work up to slowly.

John

 

Alright at least I know I'm getting somewhere slowly as it is.

I think 2 bar will be fine for now, I'm not planning on adding more boost for a while, at least until I drop 6" rods in.

Yah I'm still kinda scared with the whole thing. I was thinking about taking the car to Phoenix and having someone program a chip for me for now. Then keep reading and learning and once I'm comfortable, to read the chip they burn to give me more knowledge in it, then start burning my own. I dunno, we'll see, but for now stricly knowledge!

Thanks

I'm sure I'll come up with more questions because I misread something, so hopefully you'll all be here

 

This is a good question as the answer explains a lot.

The $58 mask uses a different quad driver and ECM output pin for the TCC. This is the key as to why some re-pinning needs to be done when converting from the $8D mask (90-92 TPI) to the $58 mask.

It isn't so much that the ECMs are slightly different, it is because the mask's (the software) have a different linage and use different outputs for different things. It is like the difference between Linux and Windoze, they both run on the same hardware but do things differently.

RBob.