I have spent the last 4 months working on WOT tuning using the LM-1 WBO2. I am tunning a 8746 ECM with the set up in my sig. I have brought up this subject before and have tried all the suggestions and am currently running 65# injectors @13psi. I have never been able to get rid of a rich condition from 1500 to about 3600rpm at a rolling wot punch. My afr's go down to the low 9's and then climb to 12.5 on up to 6000rpm. It took a lot of runs to get it stable at 12.5 in the upper RPM range but I finally got it and it made a big difference cause I was very rich at those rpm's when I first started.
I have tried everything I can think of to get rid of the rich problem at low rpm wot (ie table one, table 2, all the AE modes etc.) I don't even know if I should bother cause nothing makes any difference to the SOP or the graph when I do a wot punch. All my mods always show very rich conditions at a wot punch.
BTW, If I accelerate smooth and don't floor it, the afr's stay more stable.

I cannot figure out how to post a dif file on this site which is the Lm-1 graph, or I would do it and ask for suggestions. Would someone be willing to let me send it via fax or regular mail and give me their thoughts?


Thanks very much............. I am burnt out on this ...bob

 

There are three items that will add fuel with a WOT punch: delta MAP AE, delta TPS AE and IAC opening fuel pulse.

The IAC opening fuel pulse is at $222. This is in effect whenever the IAC is opening, such as throttle follower.

The delta MAP AE is at $295 with the delta TPS AE table at $29B. Don't forget about the AE & IAC vs. coolant mutiplier table at $332. Can add a lot more AE with that table.

Should also double check the commanded AFR during PE mode. Send it out the ALDL just to make sure that the PE AFR isn't being modified by soem unknown force.

RBob.

 

I use a free pdf converter (pdf995) - have the LM-1 software print to PDF, then you can attach the pdf... It actually works out well if you have a long log since the pdf will then have multiple pages.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RBob
<<[B]There are three items that will add fuel with a WOT punch: delta MAP AE, delta TPS AE and IAC opening fuel pulse.>>

Rbob, the three tables I have are AE vs Diff TPS, AE VS Diff map and AE correction factor VS coolant temp. I have an IAC steps VS coolant temp. Is that the same as IAC opening fuel pulse??

I have taken incremental amounts of fuel out of AE tables in steps reducing it by signifigant amounts as well as lowering the multiplier in the AE correction factor and can produce no change in the rich condition on the graph. I have not touched the IAC steps VS coolant temp. Is that something that I should look at?
I don't know what this does, sorry to say.

When I started I was way rich ie 10 to 11 AFR above 3500 rpm in addition to being rich at low rpm and the only way I could correct the high rpm rich problem was to take fuel out of table one at the 80 thru 100kpa levels and table two at the higher rpm levels. I tried taking fuel out of these tables to affect
the rich low rpm problem but it didn't make a difference, so it made sense that it was an AE issue so I made changes as mentioned above. commanded afr is at 12.5 at all rpm's and I have set it as high as 14,5 in the lower rpm's to eliminate problem but no luck.

Unfortunately I am at a lower level than you guys and when you talk about Iac @$222 or map AE @ $295 , I don't know what it means. I just try to make changes to the tuner cat tables.

I have attached a photo of my graph so you guys can see what I mean. After looking at this graph, maybe someone can tell me where I should start and what type of adjustment to make.

As always, thanks for your help.............bob

 

It isn't the IAC vs coolant steps table. That is for idle control.

The IAC fuel pulse at $222 is the hex address of the location. If you use a hex editor, or modify the definition file, this location is a IAC retract fuel adder.

With your latest post I don't think that is the problem either. It actually sounds like uyou need to continue to reduce the VE in the area of too rich.

One problem is that your ALDL is slow, very slow. So things lag behind what is really happening.

Try reducing the VE in the area leadig up to where it is showing rich. Remember though, I am not there to actually hear, feel, and smell the problem/result (IOW, long distance tuning is difficult if not impossible).

RBob.

 

thanks rbob. Looks like I gotta go back to table one and two then.
will give it a shot..........bob

 

I would almost zero out the AE vs delta MAP in the 20kpa cell, and then add about half of what you've taken out of that cell into the TPS cell. I found this helps in TBI world.
As for the super rich, like Bob said, if all else fails, zero out the tables. If there isn't a lean backfire then you're running way rich with either the open loop AFRs or VE table. If you do run lean and almost backfire (or do backfire) don't drive around like that, take it back to where it was and remove fuel from the VE table areas.
If I were you I'd also start changing the timing. Give it more timing and see if it helps, if it doesn't, go the other way to be certain you aren't having knock SA retard. I have noticed that a hard downshift into 2nd gear will trigger the knock sensor and pull some timing out resulting in crappy burn cycles.
Also if the car isn't running very smooth, could be a spark plug wire having trouble sparking a cylinder.
So again, like Bob said, it's almost impossible to do this kind of diagnostics long distance but good luck and keep us posted.

 

Might go thur and look at all the basics, mechanically.
Then the initial settings, idle speed initial timing.
Then try a new base .bin

Sometimes, you can just flat out miss something, and wind up with stuff that just doesn't make any sense. I can't tell you how many times, I've said Arrggh, and just started over, with a new .bin or found something silly wrong.

 

i will be working with the Innovate WB in WB in about 10 days if all goes well. I have an AE influenced PE run on wide band. the run starts at 15.7 to 1 A/F ratio at idle and and moves to 14/1 A/F at beginning of run and then AE/PE is envoked at about 2800 at 14/1, it then slowly drops a liittle(A/F) at a time till hits 12.2/1 at max HP (5000rpm) and then enrichens further to 11.7/1 at 5900 rpms. run shows 100 rpm increments. no peaks valleys. is this considered a good AE/PE chart? i have since leaned it in PE to 12.5/1 commanded but needed to increase AE a bit.

 

thanks for all the great comments guys.

I have been testing WOT AFR with a rolling start@1500rpm and then stomping on it . I wanted to see what things would look like over the 1/4 mile so I went to my special place, reved it to 2500rpm, feathered the clutch, punched it and went through 4 gears shifting @5500 rpm. Boy, what a difference in the graph.
I am still rich for a split second at launch but then afr climps to 13.0 and decreases to 12.0 as rpm climbs in all 4 gears.

I posted a graph below so you can see what I mean.

What is a better test for WOT AFR? Or, are they both valid?

what do you guys think?

Thanks for all of the comments. I will try Jon's suggestion on AE @20kph in MAP and TPS. As for timing, I have increased timing till I get knock and then back it of till knock is gone. However, I just downloaded Jon's ECU file and tunerpro and am trying to get it to spit out knock retard which will be a HUGH help. (I have another question on that thread, sorry).

Please let me know what you all think.................bob

 

Unless you have an AE table vs RPM, you'll wind up with different degress of richness depending on what gear your in, ie from a stop in first, you'll look kinda rich, since the engine revs so freely and the load is so light.

When I send Doc to his special place, it about the same as being grounded. Thorizine usually helps.

WOT, is about performance and drivibility as you transistion to it. The stop watch is the best indicator, tuning TO an AFR isn't the best answer.

Don't fully rely on the K/S, you have to read the plugs, and if this is for a street type car, 2d isn't going to make that big of difference, and can help when you get that ocassional tank of 87 from the 93 pump, IMO.

 

Hehehehe, grumpy I got all that except for the doc, the special place and thorizine. Must be some new school stuff?
Or, do I need to listen to Gov't Mule's thorazine shuffle.......bob

 

New guys...

Doc, is but one of the 7 lil guys that hang out here.
thorizine is a medication used for several mental disorders.

Playing with too much code and tuning, leads to this sort of stuff.