brennanw

I'm using a Moates 28 to 24 pin adapter with my Romulator (brand new). I can program the Romulator with RT-tuner or the xtronics software and then read my $42 bin using my pocket programmer. I then tried to compare the bin from the Romulator to an exact copy using RT-tuner and I get this message "Selected compare file is for an ECM type not supported by this version of the CATS RT Tuner program." In addition, if I plug the Romulator into my ECM (7747) I get a fast blinking SES light when the key is in the ON position. If I try to open the saved bin from the Romulator with RT-tuner without doing a compare I get this message "The selected ECM definition file is either not compatible with this source or the source file has been modified. The source file indicates that the $AD ECM definition file should be used."

Any ideas?

UPDATE: 5/3/04
I used a hex editor today to compare the before Romulator file to the after Romulator file and the results are interesting.

Take a gander at this:



The top file is the before and the bottom is the after. Everything highlighted pink is different between the two files. WTF is going on here?

brennanw

Since there isn't any activity with this thread yet...I'll ask a different question that should be easier to answer.

Can I use a 4K bin with the romulator or do I have to expand the bin to a larger size?

Craig Moates

You should be able to do that fine. Running a 4k file with a 32k chip header. Should work fine, at least from my experience.

brennanw

You have me stumped with that comment. Are you saying that I have to add 32K of FFs to my bin for the Romulator to work? Or can I just program the romulator with my 4K bin without adding anything to it?

Craig Moates

You should be able to program the Romulator with 4k and it should work fine...

brennanw

Ok, thanks. I suppose that tells me that my Romulator is bad.

brennanw

Bill usn-1

I have been using my romulator with my 7747 for a while now.
At first I pulled a Homer and had the last 4 pins open on the ribbon cable connector. Then I found a post that said the pin 1 side of the connector should be open. Once I had it set right it worked good for a while. Then when I started using tuner pro I started having problems. So I called back to xtronics/intronics and got a new flash file for the romulator.
Once I flashed it with the original software and the new file it has worked since.
HTH

brennanw

I called Transtronics/Intronics today and had a somewhat strange conversation with George. I've never spoken to George before but I think I must have caught the guy on a bad day. For a first impression, I'd have to say it wasn't good. Anyhow, on to the important stuff...

George told me that ZIF sockets do not work well with the Romulators because the pins on the Romulators are stiff and do not make good contact with ZIFs. This could be my problem because I am using a ZIF however, I'm also using the Pocket Programmer, which also has a ZIF, as my diagnostic tool. Based on George's ZIF comment, I suppose using the PP2 to read the Romulator does me little good.

In addition George also said that the Romulator must be in "Pull Soft" mode in order to read the Romulator with the PP2. Of course, this is a moot point if his ZIF comment is correct. I decided to try both modes and neither one made any difference.

So next test was to program the Romulator and then load the buffer with the file I just programmed into the Romulator. That is, I didn't use the PP2 for this test. I then saved the buffer as a new file and compared to my original BIN and they matched! Ok, so that was good.

Then next test was to program a 2732 chip with the same file and then plug the chip into the exact same type of hard pin socket that is used on the Romulator. I then pluged the chip/socket combo into my PP2 and saved the file from the chip. I then compared this file to my original BIN and they matched!

So what does this tell me??? It tells me that my Romulator is F'd up and now I have to call that grumpy George back to try and swap this one out for a different one. ****, I hate dealing with grumpy people. It's especially bad when I spent almost $200 on something that doesn't work.

Dave_Jones

Next time you call Transtronics, ask for Karl. He's the one you want to talk to for Romulator problems.

Mangus

You probably just caught the guy on a bad day. Both George, Karl (and Martha, for that matter) have been very helpful and supportive of me (and quick to turn around a dead development unit they let me borrow).

In fact, my second romulator has some issues too (eratic SES light). I need to turn that one around also (needs new firmware anyway).

Give them a second chance. Ask for Karl if you're worried. =)

brennanw

Thanks for the input guys. I'm sending my Romulator back tomorrow.

Another tidbit I learned from this...

Intronics = The manufacturer.

Transtronics = The distributor.

George works for Intronics.


When I called Transtronics, they told me to call George. That threw me for a loop because I didn't realize I was calling the manufacturer.

Mangus

yup, confusing it is. then throw in the fact taht they use "Xtronics" (Transtronics) and you're not sure *who* you're talking to!

brennanw

I got my Romulator back from George yesterday. I tried it out today and it appears to be working perfectly. George said it had a bad address chip.

brennanw

Holly crap! The Romulator is worth its weight in gold! In my opinion, beginners shouldn't even try tuning without using a Romulator (or something similar). In fact, if there are any beginners reading this, here is what I consider to be the required hardware & software for anyone tuning a 7747.

1. Install a 24 pin ZIF socket in place of the stock GM socket.
2. CATS RT Tuner
3. Laptop (needs to have at least one serial port and one USB or two USB ports).
4. UV EPROM eraser.
5. Pocket Programmer II
6. Pocket Romulator
7. WinALDL

*Special Note Regarding the Romulator*
The Romulator has a 28 PIN plug, however the 7747 EPROM has 24 pins. Many people (myself included) are duped into thinking that they need to buy a special 28 to 24 pin adapter. This is NOT necessary. I found a very easy and clean way (no bending pins or anything hokey) to make my own adapter. It requires no soldering or special brain power. A complete idiot can make one (I'm proof of that). I don't have pics right now but I plan to follow this up later with some details on the adapter.

Mangus

Good list! The same can be had much cheaper!... =)

If I may:

1) agreed
2) TC is good. TunerPro RT is free. (TunerCat is $120 with definition).
3) agreed
4) Use flash (EE) proms!!! No one should need use a UV eraser these days! (no UV eraser saves ~$30)
5) Moates' BURN1 -$85 (PP2 is $149+)
6) Agreed. Or Moates' AutoProm, which includes burner and ALDL interface (though is more expensive).
7) Agreed

To break (hardware only) pricing down further:

XTronics is a good commercial company. I own both a Romulator and PP2 and love them. Rom + PP2 = 149 + 179 = $328

Moates AutoProm, which is an emulator, burner, ALDL interface, and 3 channel A/D logger, is $325. Moates is not commercial and creates/builds/sells these as a hobby. He's like you or me (and owns a 3rd gen).

Cheaper yet, Moates BURN1 + Romulator (supports both commercial and a fellow DIY-er) = $179 + $85 = $264

Prominator Pro ($275)... works just like an emulator (changes with engine running). Very functional. No burner needed.

Cheaper yet... Prominator (non-pro) ($175). Not an emulator. No burner needed. Very fast changes (but not while engine is running).

brennanw

Thanks for the additional info. I've only used the hardware/software that I listed so I can't comment on the others you listed.

However, I do have one question...Is there such a thing as a 4K, 24 pin EEPROM? If so, what's the chip number?

Mangus

Moates sells a G2 adapter for your application that allows the drop in replacement of 29C256 and 27SF512 chips. ;-)

brennanw

I actually already have that adapter but I'm not sure how to use it with a $42 BIN. So it's just sitting on my shelf collecting dust.

$42 = 4K
UV EPROM 2732 = 4K

29C256 = 256K

It's my vague understanding that I have to fill up the extra space with FFs, correct?

I'm not sure I see the advantage here. I would have to work with a 4K BIN while using TunerCat RT Tuner. Then, once I'm ready to burn, use a hex editor to pad the BIN to 256K. Then burn the chip, right? Then remove my Romulator, install the G2, install chip.

It takes me 3 min to UV erase my 2732s. It would probably take me about the same amount of time to pad the BIN to 256K. I already have enough 2732s to last me many years. Is there some other benefit to using the EEPROMs that I'm overlooking?

I've often thought about using the larger chips for BIN switching (which I know very little about) but now that I have a Romulator I see no need for BIN switching.

Mangus

No padding required. You would install the G2, therefore you'd use teh 29C256.

The ECM reads the bin from the upper portion of memory on the 29C256. All this means is when you burn your 4k chip onto the 32k 29C256, you burn it to the upper 4k.

With your PP2, put the 29C256 in the burner, select the chip start address to $7000 and end address to $7FFF, burn your 4k bin, and you're done. Its no different than what you're doing now, except you're using different addresses.

As far as editing goes, you read your bin off the chip from $7000-$7FFF (which will yield a 4k bin). Edit your bin. Save it. Burn it back to $7000-$7FFF.

No need to use a hex editor to pad. No need to even stack the bin (since your G2 doesn't support switching).

Using EEPROMs means no need to spend the 3 minutes UV erasing. Which means no need for (those just getting into this) to buy a UV eraser. No UV eraser also means those without an emulator can burn chips on their laptop in the car (where that 3 minutes makes a big difference).

So yeah, there are advantages to EEPROMs, and yes there are some things you're overlooking. :-D

brennanw

That's some very good info. Thanks! I'll probably continue using my old 2732s until they're all dead but as least I now know how to use the G2.

Greg

Not to change the subject but I've been burning my 29c256 chip on PP2 with the start address at $4000 and end at $7FFF. I've been doing this for awhile now. Am I doing something wrong?

Craig Moates

Using 4000-7FFF is the correct way to burn the 29C256 when putting a program on it for a car which normally took a 27C128 (like a 1227165). In the case described above, the original application took an even smaller chip (2732A), so the 'top' of the chip is still used (7000-7FFF), the bin is just much smaller (4k instead of 16k).

Greg

ahh, gotch ya. That clears it up totally.

Z28GEN3

Im using the BURN1 unit, S2 28pin ZIF socket, G2 Mem. Adapter and 29C256 chips, cost was exactly $139, using Mark Mansurs' software and moates drivers and for a newbie this is pretty simple granted its not my first time programing a computer.