I have been working on trying to get my car to idle for the last two days. I really could use some guidance.

Here is what I have done so far.

1. The car would not run at all last week, so at least I am making progress.

2. I am now at the point where it will start, most of the time with out a little bit of pedal.

3. After it starts it was running rich (according to the NB O2 sensor, integrator would drop to 80 then ses light would come on O2 readings were in high 900's) Even with my foot on the gas taking it up to 2000 it was in the 900's so I dropped the BLM vs Egr from a calculated .041 to .031 in steps trying to lean things out.

I left the BLM vs Egr at .031 and started working on the Base VE -vs- RPM & MAP (CLOSED THROTTLE) (F31E) and lowering the values below 1000 rpm.

They were originally in the hight 20's low thirtys I have them now at 19.

I am now seeing crosscounts in the O2 and the Int is not dropping like a rock.

The thing is the car Idles but it is hunting.

I have linked a copy of my last csv file.

CSV File of idle

Areas where I should focus on welcomed, so I can get this idle situations figured out.


Thanks
--Tom

 

One last item, I repinned my 7730 to run the $58, I wired the IAC like in the $58 FAQ thread. I know that there have been questions about the correct wiring etc. However, if the wiring was messed up would I see Iac changes and any Idle at all? Just want to make sure that this would not be contributing to my idle problems.

 

Here is my suggestion.

I hate to tune in closed loop. The ECM has too much control and can mess with your mind.

Turn the temp enable for CL way up, taking it out of closed loop. INT should fix at 128 then.

Now tune for good o2 readings. NB should be fine for idle, cruise.

The f31e table your at is where I would go also. Might need to adjust the ve vs rpm at low rpms also.

Keep in mind, being in P/N will be in different area of table than in gear.

If the table has a lot more/less fuel in one area than another the car can bounce back and forth between two sig. different fuel levels giving you a hunting.

Make sure the TPS is at 0% also, otherwise you won't be in the F31E table for fuel.

Once you get car driving well in open loop, idle and cruise then see what closed does. Until then forget closed IMO.

 

Check the IAC counts at idle, and set the min idle so that you have about 20 counts, then set the TPS to a resonable setting.

Then see whatcha got.

 

Thanks for the tip, that is one of those things that slipped my mind.

 

Is the procedure where you put paperclip in a-b with out starting it to extend IAC then unplug it set idle using throttle plates?

How would I go about setting IAC to 20 counts?

Thanks

 

Heya Novass, I cannot for the life of me get my idle to stay correctly with the $749 running 42lb/hr ford green top injectors either. I haven't even gotten it to get any better yet! I will try some things tomorrow in my car, if it's stopped snowing in Michigan by then.... argh.


pj

 

I think Grumpy is suggesting turning the screw on the throttle body while watching IAC counts via laptop.

20 should be warm, in idle.

 

I am stumped on this iac thing. I set minumum idle as I stated before.

I dont see any values in the code that would cause the iac counts to bee this high. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Infact in tunerpro it seems that the commanded and motor position values are always the same.

The IAC counts are hanging in around 50 ish. What can I do to get them down?

I'm going to try INITIAL VALUE MOTOR POSITION NO A/C Location (64D) lowering them from 32 down some.

 

One other item,... to make sure I am not chasing my tail and approaching this correctly.

The car when I had the $8d code in it idled fine. Switched over and the first thing that I changed is the BPW vs EGR down to .041 from .0889 based on my inital calcs with 60-65 lb injectors.

I have reduced the bpw down now as far as .026 and I am still seeing my o2 readings in the low 900's at times.

I have disabled close loop for now.

So I started reducing the F31E values to try to reduce fuel in idle.

What values with the NB O2 should I be shooting for (ballpark). If I understand correctly when I get close to stoich the o2 values will start flipping below 500 and above. Correct.

 

Yet one more matter, Like Grumpy recommended in another thread about proper IAC re-wiring. I shorted a-b for a min and unplugged iac and removed and this is what it looked like. Would you agree that it is in its fully extended state?

So this should verify at least that the wiring of the IAC is correct....

 

Pic would help:

 

I have tried unplugging the Iac, and the car acts exactly the same as it would with it plugged in, warms up, then whether it's in open or closed loop begins to surge at idle. I have checked all vacuum lines themselves, and they all appear to be good, i've only got a few of them to check.

Could this possibly be a manifold gasket leak? or something along those lines?

pj

 

I know for a fact that mine is not a leak, because when I had it wired in $8d it idled fine.

 

Ok yeah, cause when mine was a 165, it idled fine also, which is why I'm for the most part ruling out a leak.

pj

 

Your probably chasing the wrong problem. Your ecm is most likely jumping into quasi fueling. It does it if the bpw becomes to low and the transition isn't smooth and will swing your idle. Go to KAPLL min base pulse and lower it/ Go to KAPMIN min asyncronous pulse and lower it the same amount too.

That should take care of your wild idle problems for the most part and then you can dial it in with the IAC settings. I will say though I am using P&H injectors, so I was able to lower the pulse width without any problems. Your Sat. injectors may not be as forgiving.

 

How low should we go on the table? I'm at work, and I think the stock setting is .82? or something along those lines, I may be thinking of the wrong table though, this is just off the top of my head. I seen that field, just had no idea what it was.

pj

 

I really can't tell you how low to go on it. I think I have mine set around .5 or somewhere around there, but like I said my P&H injectors are much quicker than sat. injectors and can go lower. How low I couldn't tell you. I would definitely lower it, so as to not trigger quasi fueling at idle and low pulse width areas. Because the transition is not smooth, and if you have a swinging idle that becomes so violent it kills the motor that could be your problem. You also can avoid this problem with smaller injectors, so the commanded pulse width at idle is above the .82 or whatever stock is.

 

Well here is an update I did as Yenko suggested and my Idle stopped which at times would rapidly swing no longer does.

Next Just for ***** and giggles I rewired the IAC like it was originally with the 8D tpi, put the paperclip in a-b and unplugged and took it out and low and behold it was fully extended also!

So I left that way put it back in and now my IaC counts in idle are in the low 40's and it seems to be working better!

Seems like some progress is being made..

Thanks so far for your suggestions!

 

What settings did you change Novass? and what did you put them to to get the car to stop? Thanks man.

pj

 

Really just the two tables KAPLL address 36A to .5 min base pulse and KALH address 368 to .7 it no longer hunted badly. Still have a 75-100 rpm swing, however, no where as bad as before. Still have work to do on it but at least making progress.

 

Well this $58 is really kicking my a$$. I finally had to walk away from it for a while. Put the 8d back in and it idles fine and runs fine.

I am going to try and start over fresh. Set the BPW vs egr to .041 as I calculated rather and .032 which is how far down I had it trying to mess with it.

Also, I ordered an ostrich, this back and forth to the house is pain. It was not so bad when I tuned the 8d because I had stockish sized injectors etc. However, tuning something that is not even in the ballpark I bet I'll have to 100's of trips, So when it comes I will take a nother wack at it.

The one item that was really bothering me was that in neutral I was not able to rev the engine over 2400. It would hit 2400 and cut out. All of my map and rpm rev limiters I almost maxed out to make sure that they were not the problem. Anyone have any ideas why this might happen?

 

When you get it back to $58, please send me some logs of idle, and part throttle where it breaks up at >2400rpm.

Your prolly having the false knock issue I had last summer..

-- Joe

 

Joe,

Thanks alot!!!!!!!!!

I definetly will, thanks for the offer!

I don't think it is false knock, there is no spark pulled.