AM91Camaro_RS

I am running a heavily modded 3.1 v6. I've slowly but surely been working on the tune. It does run extremely rich at some points and a lot leaner than I'd like to see at other points. But, I have actually pulled some fuel from the main VE table and gotten less pinging...is this normal? This may be way off but is it possible that it was so rich that I was hearing pre-ignition issues instead of "normal" spark knock?

Also, the $88 for the V6 has the launch mode spark...I was messing with that at the track the other night and added a little more timing. It did pull a better 60' but almost felt a little sluggish to me, then a little ways out, I felt it take off. Is this possibly when it came out of launch mode and actually retarded timing a little? Did it actually pull better when timing dropped off at around 2,000 rpms? That run it fell on its face at 4,000 rpms in 3rd gear though...that one I have not figured out. But, it wouldn't pull past that RPM, so I had to lift since I wasn't sure what was going on.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

You really need to data log the runs. It is the only way to see what is going on. Some of the items in the $88 mask can really mess things up. There is a cat-con overheat mode that plays with timing and TCC lockup. And another one I don't like: when transitioning to PE mode if the INT is greater then 128 it is locked at it's current setting. This can add a lot of additional fuel.

I would get the data logging set up first, and log every run. That will show the SA timing along with knock counts, INT, BLM, and a bunch of other parameters.

RBob.

AM91Camaro_RS

I did datalog the runs, I have the files if you want to see them. Only problem is that the knock sensor isn't there. I need to get a new connector and get it hooked back up! I'm planning to switch to $58 and repin the ecm harness when I switch to my turbo motor a little further down the road. You think it might be worth while for me to go ahead and start figuring out what I need to do to switch over sooner?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

For the 4,000 RPM drop off, check the log at that point and look at the SA & the O2. Even if it is a narrow band it can show how the fueling looks.

Same for the launch point, see what the SA did at that point. Graphing some of the parameters can also help (Excel). Do items such as TPS%, MPH, RPM, O2, SA, and maybe MAP.

The items I mentioned above (INT & Cat-con) can be bypassed. For the cat-con arson mode can set the two trip points to the max value. The INT fix requires a small patch to the code. Change one byte in the BIN using a hex editor will eliminate the locked INT> 128 during PE mode.

Location $4B82 is currently $25, change it to $20 and re-calc the checksum.

The INT will then be reset and held at 128 whenever in PE mode.

RBob.

AM91Camaro_RS

I didn't notice anything with the o2 or the SA when it quit pulling. I pulled a little bit of timing throughout the higher rpms and made another run which turned out to be my best run of the night.

I'll have to go back and look at the launch SA later. You mentioned graphing these points, do I have to do that manually or is this a feature in TunerPro? I'm sure the program will do a lot of things that I don't know about!

What is cat-con? I've never heard of it before. Where would I find the two trip points for it?

Also, I've never edited in hex, my chip burner software displays in hex, I beleive (been a while since I've used it). Should I load my bin in that, change that value, save it, then reload it in TunerPro to reflash to the ostrich? Or can I do it right in TunerPro?

Sorry for all of the questions but your answers are greatly appreciated!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

To edit the BIN can use TP. Tools -> Advanced -> Hex Editor

Once done, commit the changes and save the BIN. It should then be ready to use.

Not sure if TP will graph any part of a data log. I used to use Excel when I wanted a portion graphed.

Cat-con is the catalytic converter. The ECM models the temperature based on various data and goes into arson mode when it thinks it gets too hot.

The overheat trip points are at $3E7, two bytes for each point. Set each value to $FF to eliminate the arson mode. So address $3E7, $3E8, $3E9, and $3EA each get set to $FF.

If pulling timing gave better top end charge then it was too much to start with. On the run that stopped pulling, did the engine feel a little rough? That too is a sign that it is too much timing.

When tuning and the AFR is rich, it is easy to add too much timing. Too rich & too much timing 'feels' good, but isn't fast. Fast doesn't feel fast, it is too smooth for that.

RBob.

{edit: the ZT2 website: http://www.zeitronix.com/ IIRC you asked about this in another thread.}

AM91Camaro_RS

alright, I'm going to go look at the hex editor in a minute.

I didn't realize that the ecm did anything with (or from) the cat. I have not had a cat on the car for probably 3 years. Is that parameter in the ecm possibly cause tuning issues for me in this case? I'll deffinitely change the trip points, anyway!

I didn't really notice the engine feeling rough. It did have a pretty steady ping, though. Not a heavy knock but you could hear it. It's had a little on hard runs since I've had this motor in the car. The minor timing changes that I made the other night are the first ones that I have made, period. Thus far, I have only been working with fueling. I've been trying to get my confidence that I'm doing the right things up before I start making multiple changes. I think I'm ready to start playing with timing too, now.

Thanks for the link. I had been to their website before but couldn't find it again...later discovered its not spelled "zeitronics". Is their WB good?

AM91Camaro_RS

i was looking through the datalog from the run with the best 60' (sudden change in feel just after launch) and motor laying down at 4k. On launch, timing started off at 33* (Rel. to TDC) on the stall, climbed to 34 then dropped to 30* (and stayed there for the rest of the run); must have been where I felt the change. Only thing I noticed on the top end was that the injector PW went from 10.xx msec to 11.7x suddenly. Although, o2 voltage (in the 9xx mV range on stock NB sensor) didn't seem to change and timing didn't change.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

With audible ping I would pull some timing out. Get the ping to stop, work the AFR into line, then go back to toying with the SA timing.

With a good tune you can also fore-go the knock sensor. This will prevent false knock from all of the noise that accompanies a run. Should change the calibration to suit, as a knock detection system malfunction usually has a set amount of timing pulled.

The sudden increase in PW was probably caused by a PE mode parameter. There is a function that enriches the AFR after a set period of time in PE mode. The stock AZTY cal has this after 10 seconds of PE for a 1.0 commanded richer change in AFR. The NB O2 sensor was probably at it's limits and couldn't report any richer.

BIN location $B05 contains the AFR change in AFR * 10. This has a 1 AFR change as 10 in the BIN. You can just zero out that location.

RBob.

AM91Camaro_RS

I already set the max knock retard to 0. I did this because of a wiring issue that occasionally sets the SES light and retards timing. I have a resistor inline in place of the knock sensor but still get a code occasionally, don't know why. So, I'd like the knock sensor back in there so I can atleast see knock on the datalogs.

The 10 second parameter would make sense, that's about when it happened. The weird thing is that the INT was at 128. I will still change the AFR number to 0 in hopes of avoiding future issues. As far as the o2 being maxed out, I've seen it read over 1000mV before.

Just went into the hex editor; $B05 has 0A in it. Am I in the right spot?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The 0A at $B05 is correct, hex 0A is 10 decimal.

There is another parameter you can change for knock malfunctions. At location $515 is the amount of SA pulled whenever a malf 43 code is present. Stock azty is 15 degrees (85 in decimal).

RBob.