Soon my heavily worked 350 will be going back into my car and I was wondering if i'm going to have to change anything before I start the car.
92 GTA
AUJP
Still TPI. DD2000 puts me at 486hp and 497tq.

Without going into too much detail, unless you need it, i've basically opened up the intake, exhaust, and thrown on the new AFR 195's.

Cam specs are .224/.230 .566/.570 112+4 lsa

Currently my chip only has a few minor changes that don't really amount to anything besides injector size.

Will my car run on the "stock" tune without hurting anything so that I can datalog or am I going to have to change anything in order to start it?

 

It won't hurt anything if you fire it up and let it run for a few to get a feel for how the engine like the tune. I'd add a few degrees of SA in the idle areas. That cam will probably be somewhere in the 45-60 kPa range at idle.

 

SA?

 

Spark Advance

 

Well, 24's ain't gonna cut it at that power level. I'd go for some 32's and maybe bump the fuel pressure up to 50 psi to net about 34#/hr, if duty cycles get high.

30's might cut it, if your DD2000 is off. I'd be surprised to see that much power coming through the long tube runners.

Theoretically, you can get the low RPM VE done with any injector, and then just change the injector constants when you get bigger ones, but typically it'll only be within 5%, and you can't go WOT. I recommend starting with the near final setup.

With your setup, you may actually need to fudge the displacement value, as I'd guess you'll be over 100% VE in the torque peak area.

If you just want to fire it up with stock stuff and not really drive, it won't hurt anything. It might idle stinkin rich, so if you notice that, you can reduce the VE in those low RPM areas.

 

Thank you guys very much. I was wondering about the 24's. SA.... shoulda known that.

 

Nice lift on that cam for the duration. (and running 1.6 too!)
AUJP will not let you idle higher than 800 rpm and that will probably be where it will smooth out for you. It is a code change not just a variable in the calibration area. Look in the tuning guide for the fix, its real easy to do.

You may need to adjust the o2 constants to get the richness down once its up and running.
If the SA seems to bounce around 8* at idle, you may want to reduce the lower values in the idle SA & SR, rpm error tables.
Locations 81F0 & 81EB.
That helped get my idle to smooth out as well.

 

I figured there'd be quite a bit of .bin changing involved in this engine. I've been playing around with my chips for a couple of years but haven't gotten into it as deep as i'll need to for this.
Looks like i'll be printing this thread and a few others.
I was thinking of using the Super AUJP and changing things from there. I used it on my stock engine for a bit with some minor spark table massaging and it seemed to work out pretty good. Knocked .2 off my quarter using Moates ECM852 software.

 

Little update.
It's up and running. Had to adjust the idle screw. Wouldn't idle for crap under 825.
Adjusted the SA dist. base timing to 8.
Adjusted the actual timing to 8.
Adjusted the idle vs. coolant temp up to 850 over a 9 cell range.
Injectors are set at 2.98 grams/sec (24lbs)
FP is 48 static
Bumped up the advance at idle vs coolant temp 2 deg to 7.03 in the 20c to 80c range.

Has a hard time at idle in gear though. Suggestions?

Now for the real question.
I still need my exhaust hence no WBO2 at the moment. Heck no O2 period. Will this be safe to drive 8 miles to the exhaust shop or do I stand a chance at burning my engine up? I can do back roads (country) so I can keep my speed down. Suggested speed?

Forgot to mention that my KPA seems to be hanging in the high 80's at idle.

 

Did you do the idle fix mentioned above or swap to a bin that has that already done?
Try putting your cool comp SA table back to stock and raise your main table by 4-5 degress's from 1400 on down and make sure your closed throttle table matches up.
You're running rich low rpm so you'll need to lower your ve in the idle area.
Try 0.90 times your entire ve1. Don't forget to match your 1600 row in ve2. You'll also want to read the o2 constants thread in the stickies.

 

I did everything that's listed in my last post to the stock bin.
It actually runs better now that I raised the SA dist timing to 8.
Vacuum's only about 12.
The car won't run with the EST disconnected. I'm thinking more timing.
Do I not touch 2000+ in ve2? Also, why is 1600 different between ve1 & 2?
How much of these tables can I play with without O2? I feel like i'm trying to diffuse a bomb blind.
Change the main tables from 1400 on down throughout all KPA values?

 

What Scott (Z69) was trying to say about the 1600 line in both tables is they are not supposed to be different. If you change the 1600 line in one table you have to put the same numbers in the 1600 line in the other table.

 

Can do. But why were mine different to begin with?
I changed the entire VE1 table as you suggested and the only thing it appears to have done is to eliminate the soot (rich) coming out my exhaust pipes.
Cold idle works great now. Warm idle sucks the big one. Tunerpro is calling for a commanded idle of 950 and when it's warm it ranges from 1300 to 650. During these surges my IAC is going from between 160 and 140 counts. When it hits 160 is when my idle drops drastically.
BTW - The car will not run if either the EST or IAC are disconnected unless I physically hold open the gas.

 

This is DIY. I will point you in the general right direction and even give you an idea of what to read up on as well..... all this is up in the stickies-some where
Someone adjusted the table(s) and didn't ensure they were the same.
That was the intent. Now you have a good starting point in your VE1 to start data logging the BLM/INT and adjusting the VE tables. Once you start logging while in VE2 you will have an idea of what to do up there. With the cam change you lost efficiency at low rpm and added it higher up. Most people don't spend a lot of time under load below 1600 rpm so I don't have a problem doing a long distance guesstimate.
See the o2 constant threads.
You need to reset the IAC, disconnect it, then adjust your TB idle screw to about 50 rpm less than your desired idle. Turn the engine off, adjust your TPS voltage back to around 0.6v & hook the IAC up. Start it back up and see how it idles now.
If it still cycles too much try zeroing out your idle error spark tables in the 50 & 100 rpm rows. Once you get everything as good as you think. You can go back and try adding in a few degress to those rows to see if it makes it better. But all those adjustments going on automatically when your starting out can cause confusion as to the source of the problem.

EST- once you get the idle & fuel working you can go back and adjust your base timing up higher if needed to get it to run with the bypass disconnected.
Yes add SA to all columns from 1400 on down. An AT with a cam & stall converter can use a little more SA down there. Make sure to blend the extra SA into the rows above 1400.
The 100 kpa column is the only SA used when below about 112.5*f on the CTS and the other SA tables are added/subtracted to that value. The closed throttle table doesn't work until above that temp. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...k-advance.html
How big the boom is will depend on how hard you push it and how sensitive you are to what the engine is telling you. But you should still be rich below ~ 2000 rpm.

 

I appreciate the help.
I have much more reading in my near future.

1 final question. Will it be safe for me to drive the car 8 miles to the exhaust shop? Country roads so speeds aren't an issue.

 

You shouldn't be lean below about 2k as I said. But you can be way rich.
Which isn't good for the rings.
JP86SS is the only person I know that has a "similar" setup to yours.
His early bin had about a 10% reduction in VE1 so you should be ok at low loads.

 

I pulled another 10% out in VE1 since all I did was turn the car around and back it into the garage and my eyes were burning from being so rich. Haven't run it since I did that yet though.
It's getting towed to the exhaust shop today. Once I get it back I'll be able to actually do some real tuning to it instead of shooting ballpark tunes at it.

 

OL cold fueling is dramatically richer than normal operating temp.

 

Any updates Viprklr?

I follow this thread because soon I will be at the same situation.
Our engines differ in a couple items but that is not a problem.

You have selected a large CAM compared to the one (209/217 LSA 112) that I have installed.

Did you have had the first-run for about 20 minutes to set a bit the rings?

I think that this would be necessary before you start to have changes at the bin, because the vacuum will also change after the rings are settle.

Please continue posting the results and the progress with the BIN, at least I am interested.

Regards,
Cobra289

 

At first I couldn't keep the engine running. I spent 2 weeks checking and re-checking everything electrical and mechanical. Finally I decided it was a prom issue. It was.
So far i've done everything listed on this thread except that I had to take out an additional 10% fuel in the lower VE tables. It runs much cleaner now. Currently the car's at the exhaust shop. I probably won't have it back for about a week. I'll keep you posted once I get it back, hook in my ZT2, and start tuning from there.
Oh yeah. I also bumped up the main SA table from 1600-1800 by 5% to blend the table a bit and I shut off closed loop for now.

 

I have the exact same problem..are you mass air or speed density?

 

I'm SD.
Just a little update - I still don't have the car back from the shop. I even had to go in there and pull the ******** card just to get them going on it again.

 

Newest update:

I have the car back. It still has to go back to the shop but at least I can now work on it again.
The cold idle and hot idle seem to be fine now. Thanks for all the help here. I'm idling ~1200. I changed the hex at 4270 and 426c from 40 to 50. I thought this was supposed to give me an idle no lower than 1000.
The only surge I have now is when I put it in gear or take it out of gear. At these times it only surges 3 times and settles down.
The oil was full of gas. My plugs were fouled and black as night. This was at a 20% reduction in the lower VE tables. Whenever i'd give it gas i would have a nice black cloud leaving my garage. After the 20% reduction, my plugs were still on their way to black. I ended up taking 30% out in the lower VE tables and removing 15% of fuel in the extended table from 2000 - 3200 rpm. No more discernable smoke while at idle or goosing. Exhaust still smells a bit rich though.
I decided to take it for the first drive it's had since December. Wow is this thing loud. Anyway, I was actually NOT impressed with the performance. I do understand that there's a lot of tuning in my future. Without my WBO2 hooked up though there's not much I can do without feeling as if i'm pissing in the wind. I won't be running my NBO2.

 

Those locations are for a not p/n condition rpm limit.
They are not a commanded idle setting. Just an upper limit to the commanded idle when in drive or rev.
You should be able to idle much lower than 1200.

 

Minor update:

Finally got the WBO2 working. Haven't been able to get it into the datastream yet. It was a pain just getting the WB to work.

Took the car for an 8 mile spin. Forgot to change the CL back to on. Oops. Anyway, according to the WB, ranged anywhere from 9.6 to 11.2 AFR with most cruising at 10.5 . Talk about RICH! I've already removed 30% fuel in the lower VE tables and 15% fuel in the upper table. The injector constant is set for 24lb's which is what's in there. I was under the impression that this setup was going to run lean. Why is it then that i'm running richer than Bill Gates?

This would be easier if I could get the WB to read in the datastream. I've been wrestling with this for about a week now with no luck. I must be an idiot.

 

Lots of work later, I finally have an update.

Got my WB working properly, thanks JP and Vern.
Been playing mostly with VE tables and pulling some spark in the retard areas.
Changed my injectors to 36#.
Found out I had a dead cylinder (fixed now)
Lots of reading.
A little posting.

Bottom line.....Aside from a few little quirks that i'm still working on.....this thing runs like a bat outta hell! Talk about fun! Closed loop too. So far it even looks like i'm getting in the neighborhood of 22mpg.

I love this.