Just hanging out here playing with the software, figured if anyone has the time to answer any/all of these questions ill be that much farther ahead. just some basic stuff

note im running the $8D mask, its a 1990 SD iroc
the program im using is latest version of tunerpro rt

GeNeral Questions

-is there a way i can get injector duty cycle? i cant find it in the log file and am not sure if its possible to get that? im running 22lb injectors that i think are being run flat out. Just getting some tuning done now on this new motor so im pretty sure it needs 24's or svo 30's

-is there something resembling deceleration eneleanment? ever since ive started messing aroudn with the tune on deceleration i just get constant popping of fuel out of the exhaust, relatively big pops enough to make it not smooth to come to a stop in gear

TAbLes

-Loop Open % change AFR vs map
at 45 map its at 3.13% and by 100 map goes up to 14.06
which way is this adjusting the afr?


-Enrich Accel Delta - what does this mean, theres like 9 tables for this

im sure ill have more questions the more i go into it

 

im just going to give this 1 bump
hopefully someone can answer at least 1 or 2 of these q's

 

Adding some timing in the lower MAP cells will give better "coast" on decelleration. There are settings for D.E. but you'd have to do some looking through the guide to see if thats really what you need.
Usually this can be handled right in the VE table.

(Increasing numbers are adding fuel)
This is like the accelerater pump on a carb.
It has levels of differential "Delta" that add fuel.
Delta are based on MAP change and TPS change. Each is adjusted separatly.
There are really good articles in the Tuning Guide.

 

very helpful thanks ill get to reading

hey does anyone know what the max value you can put into your ve table is?
8d ecm in tunerpro

 

Usually the way to adjusting afr is by the VE table or the Enrich Power vs. rpm table.

 

ya youre not really adjusting the afr tho, youre adjusting the target afr

which means at WOT computers shooting for 12.64 vs 14.7 i think that probably sounds about right even for a modded motor

still wondering hwat the max value you can put into a cell in the VE table is for an 8d mask in tunerpro

 

Well your right...you really want to use VE. You can put more than 100 in it but once your at 100...you need new injectors/bigger injectors.

 

ya i dont know how to check what the duty cycle on the injectors is, but ve is just pulse width, and for how long the injector stays open, theres gotta be a max length of time and hence a max value for a ve cell

 

Or you could just get a free eval copy of Datamaster. It shows injector duty cycle as a percentage in their standard display. Only hitch with the eval copy is you can only save 20 data logs before having to buy the licensing info for it.

 

thats allright, i dont mind having to shell out a couple bucks beginning of next summer. never heard of datamaster is it a better program then tunercat? i know there really is no "better" program theyre all a bit different, but if i was going to drop a couple bucks on one which one would you reccomend?

does tunercat show duty cycle?

 

DM doesn't allow you to change anything, it is just a data logging program with a real frendly looking interface and display. ScannerPro looks to be another good displaying program, but I'm just learning how to control it. Tunercat is for modifying the binary files. And of course TP-RT will do both but is lacking in teh display area a bit (hence ScannerPro is being developed).

 

awesome, ya i have tp rt, been doing the datalogging with that, and been editing my bins with it.

allright ill probably buy DM if its a better datalogging interface, you wouldnt happen to be able to take a SS of how it looks would you?

EDIT: i just d/l the program and am taking a look at it. Looks allright but i dont know if i prefer this interface over tunerpro's, tuner pro has some nice features, but will probably use the trial version of this just for getting pulse width
thanks

 

NP, glad to help out. I like the graph area at the bottom for scrolling thru looking at diff values and then see what the rest of them are up at the top section.

 

ill keep that in mind, i just spent 2 seconds looking at it so ill take a better look at it when the cars back on the road next summer

still wondering what the max value i can input into a cell in the ve table for 8d in tunerpro, i cant imagine its much over a hundred.

 

I don't think you can use over 100 unless your boosted somehow. N-A engines are limited to 100, and in reality less than that in most cases due to injector flow and opening/closing rates and times.

 

ya im going to go double check but i think i already have values at the top of my graph for like 96-97

the car hits 160 int no matter what when im 80% throttle and above 3500 rpms. I'm only running 22 lb injectors, i need a set of 24's for sure, im sure once i get the new injectors ill be rich everywhere and be bringing all the numbers down anyways, so it may be a redundant point, i was just wondering

 

three enrich power questions.

1- Enrich power enable when hot - Okay first of all what does "hot" mean closed loop? and what is the function of this.
its written as %tps vs rpm, but theres an enrich power enable % tps table that seems to do the same thing? how do these effect each other?


2-Enrich power change to afr vs rpm
this is what my table is like from stock, havent edited this yet - why the heck do i have a 15% increase in afr to the lean side in the middle of this table?
6400 13.67
6000 13.67
5600 13.67
5200 17.58
4800 15.63
4400 15.63
4000 5.47
3600 -5.86
3200 -9.38
2800 -4.69
2400 -15.63
2000 -5.47
1600 6.25
1200 3.13
800 3.13
400 3.13
0 3.13



3- Enrich power vs temperature
tunerpro is partially writen in celcius so i dont even know the conversion
however at roughly 90-100 farenheight and above i have a 22% change afr vs temp
do i need it set this high if i have my blms close to 128

22% just seems like a really big jump to the rich side


LASTLY i dont understand how all of these can all co-exist, based on their parameters it seems like the engine conditions could be pulling on these tables from all opposite directions, so if one of the tables is trying to compensate by 15% and the other is trying to compensate afr by 3% what happens?

 

I was wondering the samething

 

There is a temperature threshold to indicate "hot".
When the coolant temp is that "hot" that table will be used instead of the the "cold" table.
Cold table and hot table do not interact and have no effect on each other.
Just a selection is made which to use based on the coolant temp.

Its what the motor wanted.
Just how that setup was tuned.

Could be, you'll need to experiment with the numbers to see if your setup will benifit or not from those settings.

Yes, some things interact and can provide multiple ways to reach an end.
Some ways are considered "patching" the problem to make it work while others are the methodical way to reach the "proper" tune.
The "quick" methods usually make other problems that are not realized immediatly but show up later as temperature related things that are difficult to nail down.
Its all tuning

 

so the way its setup now enrich power enable is at 15% tps above 2000 rpms while enable % tps is in the 60% range at that rpm. So what wins, for tuning i had enable % tps to 99% but enable when hot said to do it at above 15% for 2000+ rpms. Which one was happening considering they were completly conflicting


is this normal tho like is there a reason a motor would need this through the midrange? or should i try tuning the midrange back to 14.7 or richer through the midrange. also while in PE what is a good afr you should be shooting for at lets say above 3000 rpms?

i guess this again takes me back to what is generally considered a good a/f ratio for being in PE mode, 22.66% is well below 11.5 afr. I would have to think that somewhere aroudn 12.5 would be better while in PE? that just seems way too rich to me

EDIT: and i still dont get how the computer decides what afr to be looking for in this example while in PE when rpm at one point is telling it to lean out 15% and and that same rpms based on temp power enrich is saying make it richer by 22%

 

The two are combined for the final commanded AFR. Mid range is typically richer to put the cat out and cool it. Helps prevent it from melting.

There is a thread by Traxion that covers the calculations for PE mode on $8D. Most likely linked in the tuning guide book sticky.

RBob.

 

cool ill look that up
thanks for the info on it finds a midrange

 

okay back to some basics

first of all how do i use the Super_8dm2.ecu and the two other 8d related .ecu files in tunerpro?

also im having a tough time understanding the concept of accel enrichment. i gather this is basically a way of enriching the motor when there is a sudden change or tip in. but what does it mean in the tech article when they say things like
increasing the values adds AE pw when the map goes delta.
i dont understand this concept of going "delta"

 

That means amount of "change".
The statement without abbreviations would be something like...
Increasing the value will add Accelleration Enrichment to the current Pulse Width of the injector driver to add more fuel.

Your statement is confusing me.
What is the address and name of the table you have this value in?
Then, re-explain the second part of the statement.
The normal and Hot tables do NOT interact, they are selected for use (one or the other)

Power Enrich enable %TPS is just that.
How far down to push the throttle before it engages.
The point where "normal" closed loop operation exits and some Open Loop parameters are used for fuel and spark.

That is the point it turns on, NOT how much it turns on.
That is in the AFR Vs. RPM table.

One parameter sets WHEN, the other sets HOW MUCH.

Now for A.E., Same is true.
This is the accelerator pump on a carb only you have control over its function. When to engage and how much.

Super 8dm etc are nothing more than "overlays" or roadmaps to see what you are changing in a binary file.
Without something to indicate what is where, you are not sure what to change.
The ECU/XDF file takes each address location and assigns a name to it that you can understand. From there scaling math is applied to the 0-255 value (0 to FF in hex) to allow you to see the value as engineering units of degrees F or C, MPH, Time, or other parameter.
If you had to edit everything in hex it would be much more difficult.
There are many different files created by many different users. Some have errors and names that are different. Its all how the user created them from the info that was available at the time.

Read through the articles in the tuning guide again and again. They start to sink in but it does take a few times (and then some to pick up on things)
HTH

 

sorry that didnt make any sense looks like im starting to get turned around inside my own head

my enrich power enable % tps i have set to 99% for doing tuning

however

enrich power enable when hot the % is 15% tps at all the points at or above 2000 rpms

so on one hand when "hot" PE should kick in above 15% tps however my enrich power enable based on tps% says PE shouldnt kick in until 99%

so which table wins there?


ya sorry i get all that, am luckily far enough into this that im past that lol.

i just dont get how to use the .ecu files, ive been using just the 8D.xdf file but it doesnt have all the tables that super 8d does and i cant just open a .ecu file as a .xdf file

just not sure how to actually load the .ecu file to i guess layer over the 8d.xdf file? either that or it replaces it not sure which

 

in the same place where you select the XDF, look for "import" & then "From ecu". then browse to the folder where you put the ecu file. when you select another XDF or close TunerPro, you'll see "modifed XDF, save?" tell it yes, this converts the ecu to XDF.

 

Hint: Is your coolant temp hot enough to use the hot table?