Does anyone see what the problem why my car doesn't want to idle the datalog 1,2 is from one bin and 3 is from anouther. they were copied from excel this time.7730 , a1xdf

 

Can you post them as a .CSV and/or .adl files?

The .txt files don't align the columns properly.

 

I'd say give it a couple more degrees timing and see if it helps. If your mechanical is set at 6* and the log indicates 20, you would be at 26.
Not sure if that log value of 20 is including the mechanical setting.

 

How do I do it when I try it says invaild file?

stock is 9 and 1,2 datalogs are set at 14 deg.

 

You have to zip them, and then uploade them. You can zip them all to the same file with a .txt or .doc that explains which is which with as much detail as you ca that way aswell.

 

Lets see if I have it done right here is a datalog,the bin,and xdf to go with it. thanks for any help that I recieve.

 

"No files to extract" is the error I get when I download those files.

 

There's nothing there because you are opening them through the internet (and this board)
Right click and do "Save As" and the files will then open locally and the contents come through OK.
I can't open the spreadsheet on this computer though.
Still thinking a bit more timing at idle , less than 20* will not work in my car. it likes 26-28 at 700-750 RPM minimum.

 

Uh, no I saved them to my hard drive first, THEN tried opening them.

 

ok, I used winzip this here is 4 datalogs 2 openloop and 2 closedloop, bin and xdf also.

 

only allowed 3 at a time so here is the rest. The main problem right now is it won't idle below 1500-2000 rpms due to the 272 cam. But I haven't driven it yet due to that.

 

Not sure why you are switching between two different masks, as that can cause issues. Even more so when switching between $A1 and $88. Both of these masks need to have an idle learn done. Otherwise the engine will not idle correctly, will surge and droop, along with stall.

Not to mention that sooner or later you will edit a BIN with the wrong xdf file.

To get a better feel for what the data log is showing hold the throttle steady. The constant movement makes the data rather meaningless.

Also note that the O2 value is dropping to 4.42 mV. That too is unusual, they rarely go that low. The sensor may be bad or the wire is melted against the exhaust.

Is this a stock 3.4L? if not, how modified is it?

RBob.

 

A couple of more items, looking at the log file: test1 closed1.zip

I see the INT moving, yet the targeted (commanded) AFR is not at stoich. It is at 11.2 and moving toward 12.4 AFR. This looks like after-start fuel being decayed out.

Something is wrong here. When in closed loop the commanded AFR will be at the stoich value and not moving.

Also note that the knock counts are rolling up to 255 and back over to 0. Why is there constant knock being reported?

You may want to start over with a stock BIN. Pick either $A1 or $88 and stick with it.

RBob.

 

The first post with the bawx w/ 88.xdf was becouse the car came with it but it is very far off. The second is one that came from a cavalier useing the a1.xdf and seemed to be the clostest to running the car so thats why I went to it. The motor is a 3.4 with 11.5 compression, a crane 272 cam, 24lb ford injectors, 70mm tb, headers,3500 v6 alumium heads, and has been changed to DIS ignition. The egr has been left off. The knocks may be coming from viberations from the starter since the is sitting 1/4" from it can it be tuned without the knocked sensor hooked up? I also don't have any emmision laws here also. I checked the knock senser wire and seen nothing I bought the sensor new a month ago.

 

here is another datalog the knock count keeps climbing on this one also. They are a1.xdf. Can the knock sensor be unhooked? I also noticed that the int started climbing fast in the lower rpm's do you think this may be the problem if so what do you think I could change to help it? This is the first time I've ever tried tuning other than turning a dizzy.

 

To mechanically get rid of the knock sensor, replace it with a 3.9K ohm resistor.

Looking at log file 12.zip, at around 73 seconds, the TPS is closed enough to go to idle mode. Prior to this the RPM is held at 1350. The INT is a little high at 141.

Then as the TPS lowers (at 73 seconds) the O2 drops lean, and the RPM drops below the desired idle speed (1050 RPM). The IAC then opens to 54 from 36 to try and keep the idle speed up.

Strange that the RPM doesn't surge as the engine leans out. I would have expected that. It just continues to go lean even with the go-pedal being pressed, and then stalls.

I would first crank open the TB idle stop screw so that the engine can idle without the IAC. Even if it is at a higher then desired RPM. Then work on the VE tables along with the injector compensation values (having 24 #/hr injectors and all on a 3.4L enigne).

Once the VE and SA is better close up the throttle via the idle stop screw until it idles with the IAC. About 20 - 30 while warm. Will need to reset the ECM by removing power to it and doing idle learns. The idle control in $A1 is dependent upon the IAC airflow.

Anytime the idle stop screw is changed or the ECM has the power removed an idle learn is required.

An area that I believe isn't correct is the manifold pressure at higher RPM. In the 58 - 59 second area (same data log) the throttle is being held open to hold about 2900 RPM. The manifold pressure is in the 51 - 51 KPa range. This I believe is too high for that RPM. It may be that the valve adjustment is too tight, causing a loss of vacuum (inverse of MAP).

Also note that the INT and BLM is dropping during this time. Need to work on the VE tables.

Have you considered using the $8D mask?

RBob.

 

I'm going to try to put together a $8D tonight. Since i'm new to this not to sure I will get it. I don't know about the manifold loosing vacuum due to the valves to tight, there actually a little loose due to the none adjustable rockers and the pushrods a little short (a little ticking). After I see I will be able to get it tuned enough to drive i'm ordering new pushrods. The idle screw on the tb was already bottomed out.

 

The $8D mask is better documented and is more straight forward then $A1 or $88. Both of which have some areas of strangeness to them.

Is this 3.4L a RWD 60 deg engine? I know that the '92 3.1L engines have adjustable rockers. Part of the problem is that some service books give a torque spec for the rockers. Where they need to be adjusted. Causes all kinds of issues.

If that Crane 272 cam is the advertised duration it is mild. Shouldn't be causing high MAP values at 3000 RPM.

You also mentioned going to a DIS system. Are the timing values in the calibration set up correctly? Some DIS systems put the DRP at 70 BTDC.

RBob.

 

I went ahead and started on one here it is. I put it in and it fires up and dies but the black smoke rolls. In the a1 mask it has a Base pulse constant vs. % egr where you can get the injectors in the ball park. Does the 8d have one or am I overlooking it or do you have to use the ve tables only? One more thing I didn't see is the desired idle speed I was aiming to go to 1500 to see how the 8d does.

 

$8D has both an injector flow constant and a displacement constant. Need to set both.

A BPC value are these two values rolled into one.

The ANHT hac is of the 8D mask.

RBob.

 

its a 95 rwd motor they to have adjustable rockers but i'm using the fwd aluminium heads and where i went dis I got a fwd bin and copied the timing tables thats where that a1 xdf came from. Here is the cam specs http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft but my rockers are 1.6 ratio. Thanks for any help you can give I was about to go back stock if it didn't start looking any better.

 

I tried it again using the anht I have changed the engine size and injector size to match my engine. I set the sa close to the fwd sa settings and lowered all the upper and lower ve tables 5 points. the car wants to start but wont I datalogged tring to start and now its retarding the spark but not showing any knocks. I have disabled the smog pump and the egr. But the engine cranks over easier.

 

With the change in cranking I think that the spark timing is off. DIS and distributors typically use a different DRP vs crank angle setting. Also, did you set the calibration for a 6 cylinder? If not that changes the engine running SA timing.

During cranking the SA can't be retarded by knock. Cranking is always at the base timing setting. This is set by the distributor or notched wheel (DIS). Did you change the ADS file to one for $8D?

RBob.

 

Not sure where the drp vs crank angle is, was set to v6 and the cyclinder volume also. I did use the correct xdf for each file and during comparrison also. I did get it to start setting the initial sa at 22.0 degrees but it was running really rough and flooding I tried getting datalogs but it didn't take them. I thought that before I tried it again i'd ask if the ve tables would be about the same between the two bins? It missed like it was crossed wired but maybe due to the flooding. I tried posting my bin but don't believe it went through.