junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I have had some people asking about the $8D B_AUJP code (Boost AUJP). I have been thinking about cleaning up the documentation later on this year and releasing it.

The advantages over the $58 is that it works with large injectors better. Also, lots of people that are familiar with the $8D will pick it up quickly because the boost part is an addition to a lot of the standard tables. It works with the 749 ECM and the 730 ECM. All stock $8D functions are retained. That means you keep the transmission TCC / lock-up and no wire re-pinning. Proper coolant fan control. The $58 code doesn't have the proper coolant fan control because it was meant for an intercooler pump. The small pump doesn't load down the engine at idle like a coolant fan does. This causes erratic idle problems sometimes with the $58 code.

The Boost B_AUJP has the following features:

GM 2-bar map sensor use
2-bar boost VE fuel multiplier (3 KPA resolution)...very accurate fuel control
2-bar boost VE fuel adder (3 KPA resolution)...very accurate fuel control
2-bar spark retard (3 KPA resolution)...very accurate spark control
water/alcohol pump pulse width modulation (adjust spray vs RPM and boost)
Some pay over $200 for this control. This code does it for you.
additional intake air temperature inputs (monitor intercooler efficiency)
generic $8D code fixes
calibration updates through the ALDL (not on the fly, engine off with key on)
toggle switch inputs to do table wide fuel adjusts on the fly
(switch on = lean fuel by 3%, switch off = use VE tables as normal)
------------------------------------------

Possible future features:
Wastegate control
Nitrous control and injector PWM
3-bar boost tables
calibration updates on the fly (engine running)

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Looking forward to seeing this code first hand, sounds interesting.

Currently I'm running $59, which I think is very good code, but being as I am, I like to look at all options when I can.

The above post may cause condition known as hot dog fingers, may cause your offspring to be born with the horns of the devil, may cause projectile vomiting, has been nown to bring pleasure to those around it, no warrantee written or implied, use at own risk, batteries not included, some assembly required, knowledge of the use of hand tools may be required, proper I.D. needed for entry, no long haired freaky people apply, rinse and repeat, induce vomiting if swallowed, not to be taken oraly, see doctor if symptoms last for more than 4 hours, peanuts may have come in contact with above post, danger sharp edges, warning: wet paint, use proper safety equipment, don't forget to wipe, this is not a toy, do not enter, no merging, no exit, no standing, reserved space.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Now that is funny. I wanted to remove the signature I used from the bottom of the page, but talking with others I found that it would mean giving away my info.

I will post as the BAUJP project comes closer to completion. Just wanted to put it out there. I have been running it since 2006 and figured it would help others out there that are going turbo/supercharged. It was a lot easier to tune than the $58 code and it keeps all the stock functionality. So, if you already have a tuned engine and you put a turbo/supercharger on they mostly all you do is modify the fuel VE multiplier and spark retard. That is pretty much all it takes.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Six, You forgot
"Do not use while sleeping"

You know I was just checking prices to start looking into a 406 build when I saw this. I may have to change gears and just go boosted. Been bouncing back and forth on this for a year or so, boosted I only need to add parts instead of replacing them (at least till they break)
The tree-fitty just ain't making me feel good anymore. I bought a 150 wet kit and decided not to use it, got a 3800 triple lockup converter but won't go good with the combo as is.
8 psi setup might be a good starting investment after all. Never could do any code mods to attempt the boosted $8D. Operation is to foreign to me.

gta324

Happy you thinking of releasing it now! Its been a while since I first contacted you about it, I just went with $59 code instead.

But as said before I will be happy to test it when its availible!
I have used 6E/8D/$58/$60/$59 on my car so why not test it too.........

But if I'm not remember wrong wasnt NVSRAM module needed?

/N.

AC

iTrader: (3)

junkcltr, dang man. This will be GREAT to try out. Like Six_shooter and GTA I too run $59. What would the DIY communitity do without people like yourself...probably stay naturally aspirated.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

No, we would just deal with the existing code and "make due" with the short comings of each, and learn to live with the little things we didn't like.

Then again, we could likely learn to patch, but we'd be years, maybe decades behind, I know I would be, well actually I already am. I'm just living off the good work of others.

Disclaimer:
Do not use while pregnant, or trying to become pregnant, your milage may vary, keep the shiney side up, do not use while sleeping ( ), may cause discomfort, long term exposure could cause hearing loss, use hearing protection, eye protection required.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

WOW, I know alot of people would love to use this. Id deff. be interested in giving it a shot. Im getting ready to buy a 3 bar and dabble with $59 right now.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Just thought I'd mention in reference to $58;

While it is true that the Sy/Ty used an IC pump, and not an electric fan, $58 was also used in the Turbo Sunbird GT's, that used an electric fan, two speed in some years, though IIRC the low speed was on whenever the ignition was on, and the ECM controlled the high speed.

I haven't used $58, but I do use $59 on my Datsun with an electric fan, it is the "Intercooler Pump" variables that control my fan currently and it works fine. Once I get to a point where I have almost nothing left to do with $59 to get the tune any better, I want to try using $58 and $8F, and B_AUJP to see just what differences there are, and what are the pros and cons of each.

Just thought I'd aqdd a little bit of info about $58, still want to see B_AUJP though. :tup:

BTW, the pin changes seem to be ECM specific, not code specific. In my situation if I switch between a '7749 and a '7730, I have to re-pin the TCC/shift light (shift light for me) and the ALDL serial data, I have my injectors currently set-up to run off the single injector driver, so that I can swap to a '7730 if need be.

Disclaimer;
May induce vomiting, may cause rashes, may cause temporary loss of vision, may cause an increase in appetite, been known to reduce sexual drive, don't pet the sweaty things, and don't sweat the petty things, Devo forever, Don't not take if there are known scuicidal tendancies, consult physisian before using this program.

skwayb

Once your turn QUASI off in 58/59 all those wierd PW at idle and cruise part throttle changes go away. I have tuned high Z's in 33, 40, 50, 65 and the new Motron 80's without any issues. QUASI just didn't work right. The highest Low Z's I have played with are 84's and the V8 Typhoon idles like it is stock. I know a guy running 96's on 59 without any issues too.

Both ECM's have their pluses and minuses. The 730s have better fan control, the 749 has 2 injectors drivers and can run Low Z in P&H.

We are adding ALKY pump control to 59 but just haven't completed it yet. I like the other features you have listed. Looks like it will be nice.

If you are looking to add wastegate and boost control, you might want to look at the Lotus Learn Boost code. I have it if you want a copy. It is one main loop that does it and then some variables you will need to add. It looks like it would be an improvement over the 58 Wastegate cotnrol as it will learn what it needs to do to control boost as apposed to just guessing the base wastegate dc, and then stepping up or down from their to get to the correct boost level.

Anyway can't wait to see this come out. Giving people more options to play with is a good thing.

???

iTrader: (5)

be cool to see. but I always get the feeling that something nasty when down in the mid to early years of the gm diy stuff. the first few posts reminded me of it again. hope it doesn't get ugly

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

my twin turbo 401 is going to start in the next few days... Going with 3-bar $59/730 for now to see if i cant get it to work. I'd be very interested in the $8D boost stuff

Else its aftermarket for me

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I agree. The quasi mode can cause problems when tuning. The nice thing about the $8D is that it will do single fire when the PWs are low and that can help a lot with extremely large injectors at idle and decel.
It can also switch back into double fire as the PWs increase.

The $8D can run in both the 730 and 749 ECM. So the $8D can run both low-z and high-z also.

That is a great feature to add. I have been running it for years and I am impressed with how well the PWM works with the widely used Shurflo pumps. One feature that I forgot to mention that I *really* want to add is a spark controlled rpm limiter (not fuel limiter like stock). Once I get that figured out then I could also make a 2-step feature. That would be nice in the $59 also.

I planned on doing the wastegate logic last year but other things came up. I like to try and come up with my own stuff and then test it out in the garage for a while. Usually it works, but sometimes I trash the logic and start over with a new approach. If I can't figure out the WG control I may take a look at the lotus code. I think the big part is doing a predictive algo. to make sure over boost doesn't occur before it gets there.

I think options are a good thing too. I have also worked on the $0D code (427 ecm truck) and added 3 bar boost. That is all though.....no other goodies yet. The *end goal* was to put a 4L80E in the car with the $0D, 3bar, water/alky, etc. I still have a lot to code for the water/alky, WG, etc.

Lots of stuff to clean up on the $8D and see if I can squeeze in the spark rev limiter. It may be a while. I just picked up a S400 that is getting a 88mm inducer wheel so I want to spend some time doing the hot side fab work.

skwayb

If you get the 2 step figured out, let me know. We were looking at that but not sure how to accomplish it yet.

Also Dig says we could add 4L80e control to 59. We have enough inputs left to do it. Won't be as complex as the GM code but would accomplish what you need.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Darn, I was gonna go 80E too. All this good stuff coming out just abit later than I need. Cant wait to see the results on either setup.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

The $58 has a lot of room being 16k. It could maybe be squeezed into the $8D, but probably unlikely. I don't think either the 749 or 730 ECM can control the 4L60E or 4L80E because of the force motor (line pressure) control output. You need a high current bi-directional motor control. The TIS AC input would also require an extra circuit. IT would be interesting to see the $58 control an E-trans.

For me, the 427 ECM or equiv. is the only way to go when installing the E-trans. I would really like to figure out how to use it with a crank wheel and E-DIS spark so I could start messing with a LSx series engine. I am not a fan of the SEFI tuning software.

firstfirebird

iTrader: (3)

What about the '9396 ECM that's used in the FWD 3.4 DOHC's? It uses a DIS trigger, it has e-trans outputs, don't know if you could make it work with the 24x though.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I have a strong liking for the GM truck 427 ECM. Here is why:

E-trans / non-E trans auto / manual trans control
64K bin (lots of room for changes)
A lot of SRAM (lots of room for new functions)
2 injector drivers (can do low-z and high-z 8 cyl)
2 controllers for the injector drivers (can do alternate batch fire..impressive)
many unused outputs and inputs
OBD-I interface can be adjusted to output anything on the ALDL

The only thing it is missing to me is being about to run a DIS spark setup. I would love to modify it to run a Ford E-DIS or some sort of GM E-DIS. It has to do a V-8 though. The only thing I don't like about the Ford E-DIS is not being able to do spark rev limiting from what I heard.

The 427 ECM with boost code, E-trans, E-DIS, water/alky would be better than any newer OBD-II PCM/VCM if you ask me. You could even tune on the fly if you wanted to. That OBD-II stuff is just too expensive as of right now.

Sorry for getting off topic. All these great projects to do.......so little time.

skwayb

I would definitely run this ECM (I have one on the shelf for when I was going to use it to control the 80e before i went with the PCS Controller) if it would work on a V6 but I don't think there is a memcal out there for a V6 and the 80e.

???

iTrader: (5)

i know very little about code, but why can this 427 ecm not do dis while every other code seems to be atleast said it can be modded to work?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I thought there already was someone running DIS on a '427?

Anyway, it would just take a work around like has been done with other code, such as $59, adding timing in biases, or if negative numbers really do work, using that. The DIS "problem" is really fairly simple once you realize it's the ICM that needs the extra timing (about 60* on some DIS applications), and that you just need to offset everything by the right amount. Max advance would also need to be set to an appropriate number, or depending on the method you use max retard as well.

Once I take a closer look at $OD, which is what I plan on running on our '70 chev pick up with a Vortec 355, Corvette crossfire intake set-up, and eventually a 4L60E, I may screw around even more and put DIS on it, just to mess with people, when I pop the hood.

I really need to get my test bench back up and running, and then wire the '427 I have into it..........

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I did some file diffs early on to see what the difference was from the $0D - 4L60E and $0E - 4L80E bins. I found that only the CAL portion differed and the code was the same. That means you could cut & paste the trans CAL portion into the V6 CAL. Just take the V6 bin and 4L80E bin and do a compare to see if there are binary differences after the start of the code section.

I just looked into the Ford E-DIS thing. The 427 ECM can easily provide the SAW output using the stock EST signal that would go to the HEI module. I need to look at the ECM inputs again to see where the +12v PIP from the E-DIS could be read. The E-DIS is easy to control because it does the dwell calc. instead of the ECM. The vortec 5.3 engines seem to go for sub $500 and make about 285bhp stock. The heads flow better, the crank is stronger. The only thing that sucks is the $500 ECM tuning equipment and even worst........the code can't be modified and re-assembled easily. This has got me thinking.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I never looked into DIS until now. I always ran old school dizzy.
You mentioned just offsets are different for the GM DIS. How does the GM DIS work?

The Ford E-DIS works like this:
Set the VR sensor 50* before TDC
ECM gets the PIP signal that says a coil just fired
ECM sends the SAW timing advance signal for the next coil fire

The "bad" part is that the coil is ALWAYS fired. That means no dropped spark for a 2-step of spark rev limit. You would have to run thing to cut the power to the coils to do it.

EDIT: You have a point there with the timing offsets. The E-DIS sends a pulse saying the coil just fired which is like a regular dizzy. I think all it would take is offsets adjusted and messing with the spark code a little to change from a DWELL ON COIL CHARGE signal to a SAW timing advance signal.
I wonder if the stock trigger wheel could be modified by removing teeth to work with the Ford E-DIS. Remove half the teeth from the wheel.

Anyone know of a good HAC for a V6 DIS engine?

???

iTrader: (5)

since i've been doing a lot of searching the last few months about dis setups. here's what i've found(that i believe is good info)... the first link is to a many page thread on code59, but dig gets into the ford e-dis saw stuff. i don't understand all over, but he seems to do a good job explaining it. around page 4 i believe...

http://www.code59.org/index.php?opti...0&limitstart=0


here's a link to what is said to be a running $8D v6 bin and xdf

www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/viewtopic,p,945068.html

and here's a how to about a different way of doing it, not using the max adv and max retard values

http://www.code59.org/index.php?opti...=5960&catid=12


good luck... and Rbob's info about it is in the last page of the do away with dizzy thread on here.

???

iTrader: (5)

and almost forgot.. here's what seems to be a northstar motor and coil packs being run on a 730 how too.

http://northstar.7p.com/

the bin is there too

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I looked at the GM V6 DIS interface in the GM manual I have. It uses the same type of signals as the V8 dizzy does. It looks like the V6 DIS needs the dwell time EST from the ECM. It only does the timing for firing each cylinder. It looks like a dizzy to the ECM with just different base settings as far as I can see.

The Ford E-DIS does the dwell timing. The ECM would need to be modified for sending out the SAW signal. It needs to send it right after the PIP signal and not wait around to do the DWELL TIME signal like the V6 DIS needs.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Didn't the $60 code do DIS ?
Might be something there to investigate.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I was steered away from the $60 early on. Never saw it and still don't want to.

I did take a look at the $8D again and how the EST is done. Basically, a couple of timers to create the rising (charge up coil) and falling (fire coil) signal to the coil.

I looked into the GM V6 DIS. The wheel looks to the ECM like a standard V6 dizzy with one sync tooth. The ECM does the DWELL time calculation so this could still do the 2-step and spark rev limit. I need a V8 coil pack though and the Northstar looks like it wants a crank and cam sensor which I don't care for.

That leaves me back at the Ford E-DIS. Once I get the $8D timers figured out then I think it wouldn't be too hard to change the OBD-I to run the Ford E-DIS. The only bad part is no 2-step and spark rev limit. It would need to be done by playing with the power to the 4 coils.

EDIT: I should look into how the Ford setups handle doing a rev limiter using EDIS. I wonder how MSD does it for the Fords with EDIS.

???

iTrader: (5)

the northstar icm/coil pack does not need the cam sensor. just the two crank sensor which arnt any harder to mount than one crank sensor since they arnt on any kinda angle of eachother or anything, just cut two holes in an L-bracket and mount them in. its just the wheel that everyone gets stuck on. once past that its not any worse than running any other setup. me and a friend do have a running northstar setup on his lt1 without a cam sensor. you said the gm ecm DOES do the dwell time, but I thought it did not do the dwell time. the gm icm does the dwell while the ford needs the ecm to do the dwell for it? anyways, the rev limiter, if you are setting up the gm ecm to do dwell for the ford coils, whouldnt having a rev limit be as easy as stopping the dwell signal? no dwell, do fire. well easy is the wrong word since I can't do it, but you know what I mean.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Ford does it the same way GM does it AFAIK, fuel cut.

MSD does it by dropping random cylinders, like they have since the beginning of time, or rather since the begining of the "MSD soft-touch rev limiter". The MSD ignition box drives the coils directly, so it can choose which coils and subsequentally which cylinders to drop to keep the RPM below the rev limiter.

???

iTrader: (5)

yeah, msd using the coils as transformers, just discharging the caps thru them.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I could be wrong about how I thought the Northstar worked. I saw the Ryan Hess site Northstar link and it says he is running the Northstar using the 730 ECM. It sounded like he is doing it with only CAL modifications. That would seem like the ICM wants a signal that has dwell built into it. The ECM sends out a signal with both advance and dwell time. That is what it what I am guessing. I didn't find any more concrete info. on how the ICM works.

The Ford doesn't want dwell time. It only wants advance time.

EDIT: If the Ford or GM module does the dwell time then it MUST fire a coil every time. The Ford module will fire the coil using the previous advance time if it doesn't receive the current advance time. If the advance time is not sent for a while then it declares a fault and goes to 10* of advance. There is no way to tell it to not fire the coils. I don't know what the GM does, but it must work kind of the same way.

EDIT AGAIN: All kinds of Northstar info here: http://www.lukeskaff.com/car/northstar/theory.html

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote the MSD thing. Since the MSD drives the coils using caps at 400v then all it has to do is not charge up a cap so the coil doesn't fire. To do a simple spark rev limiter would require another box with drivers in it. The ECM doesn't have enough outputs, RAM, etc to do the 2-step or rev limit by itself.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I just read about the Northstar ICM and it seems decent. Looking at the timing waveforms I can see that the 730 ECM can be used to interface to the ICM without code changes. It would just take some CAL changes. The ICM would allow for a random spark rev limiter. The ICM expects the ECM to send it a signal that has both dwell and spark built in.

The only bad part is the wheel like was mentioned earlier.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Did you use a stock GM wheel or make you own?

???

iTrader: (5)

my buddy did the wheel part, he's the fab work side. he laid it out by hand and cut it out. seems to have worked.

the cad file is up in the thread about it,(pics too) but the guy that he knows that could load it up and cut it out couldn't get it to open for him. so he gave up and just did it by hand. i have another friend thats looked at the file and since that time has started a new job where he says he can cut the wheels out for me. i just gotta get around to sending him the file again and send him some money for shipping them down. he's out of state


the stock wheel is in the middle of the crank and all one thing. so no way to use it, unless you find a used crank and cut it in half.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

This site has a DWG autocad file also.
http://www.lukeskaff.com/car/northstar/design.html

I need to look into the reference timing / placement of the pick-ups.

???

iTrader: (5)

everything you need to know is in the do away with dizzy thread. there's a drawing of the wheel, thats number 1, you line #1 tooth up with sensor A and while the motor is at TDC and you get your 10* cranking timing. then when the ecm takes over, its 70* reference angle. the sensor's are 27* apart, the size of the wheel and thickness are all there.

???

iTrader: (5)

but real quicky..

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I got really off track in this thread. I will stop posting about the EDIS and Northstar DIS and post in this thread https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...way-dizzy.html

AC

iTrader: (3)

junkcltr, LOL When it comes to that subject I'm like a 1st grader attending a calculus class.

Is your plan to support 1 and 2 bar MAP sesnsor right out of the gate? I'd love to be a beta tester if you're taking numbers

TT 68

Sorry to revive an old post but I pulled a 4L80E out of a 92 Chevy 3/4-ton truck that was a 4.3 V-6 so there is a memcal that will do what you want. I didn't grab the PCM so I can't help you with the broadcast code.

92Z

iTrader: (1)

Any updates on this? I'm considering going blower (again) because i have a Superfueler. I would prefer to go 2 bar 8D, and ditch the Superfueler due to fuel distribution and reliability.

Steven89Iroc

Oh wow,

My three year wait is finally over and my TT IROC-Z is back on the road! I've been drooling over the prospect of BAUJP since you (junkcltr) first mentioned it to me all those years ago.

In fact, just yesterday I disconnected the wastegate actuators and opened the wastegates fully just so I could go back to my old 'near perfect' $8D tune while I'm needing to drive it until I fix my truck (or AWD Talon #1, or AWD Talon #2, or the turbo Fiero. Anyone want any projects? )
I'm still running $58 right now, in open loop, with a tune that can only loosely be called a 'tune'. I was going to go to Code 59 when I get a chance, but I might skip that in the Camaro with BAUJP possibly being available. I'll leave $59 to the high boost, large injector, DIS 60*V6 Fiero when it's done being swapped/fabricated.

As a side note, I'm now making 0 psi until about ~4800rpm, then by 5500 it's making about 6 psi, lol. This is with very cold ambient temps, though. The T3 internal wastegates are obviously a bit undersized, but they work for my normal application (they hold 15psi to redline just fine).
I can now get traction in most of 1st! and all of 2nd! and 3rd! and 4th! 5th and 6th have always had traction, heh. I forgot what having a slow Camaro was like.

Anyway, junkcltr, even if it's not 'done', I would be way more than appreciative (minor Paypal donation for your efforts?) if I can get it from you for my Camaro, it has to be way better than my $58 "tune" that barely lets the car get to work and back. Much finesse required, especially with the T56 Spec Stage III clutch.

Steven89Iroc

No dice?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

ttt, any luck on this making it out yet?

skwayb

Until junkcltr releases this Steven89Iroc, I would definitely move to Cdoe59. We have tools and probably a bin to get you up and running that you could tweak to your setup. You would just need a 3bar Map sensor. Better to do this than run a crappy 58 tune and hurt the motor.
What size of injectors do you have?

Just my 2cents.

92GTA

iTrader: (11)

I'm in CA and need my EGR and everything else to work, reading about Code59, I would loose some functions

Any idea on when this would be ready to test?

18436572

It looks like this thread fell on its face. Anybody doing boost with 8D?

???

iTrader: (5)

the OP has used it, but never released it into the wild i believe.