Hey guys I'm having a few problems. I've noticed for awhile that during tip in or a very slight rolling start the car goes WAY rich. Like almost 9.0-11.5 then pops back up to around 14.7-13.9 as I get going. How do I remedy this? Also I think my coolant temp gauge and what my EBL Flash are sayin are COMPLETELY different. My guage will read about 220 but the EBL says I'm around 175-180. What would cause this? Lastly, I've added a TON of AE in due to the fact of it getting colder outside but it still seems that the car will run very lean while it's still fairly cold. It doesn't seem to perk up till after 170-180 degrees. I'm stuck. Any help would be great.

 

there's a tuning with ebl thread just below this, you might find your answer in there, but sounds like you are using AE to try and cover for a temp table that's not right or the ve table itself is off.
I'd say put the ae back to get rid of the rich tip in spike and work either air temp or coolent temp table.

 

I bet your gauge if off. Possible the sensor is kaput but I bet then it would read max. My gauge reads diff than WU-EBL as well. not sure on that. sensor can be tested. search on that.

tip in. Is in involking AE? check WU. If so and I suspect it is you have too much AE in tables when in CL and manifold/TB is heat sunk. If then needed only when coolant cold (<160f)work the temp compensation/or enrichen OL A/f v/s MAP RPM table a little.

I like to work from lean to rich.

 

I only run the car in open loop, to me it's less headaches. I've been doing learn after learn and it's gotten to the point where it doesn't really change much anymore. I want to do the head/cam/converter swap shortly, I already have everything I need so I want to get the car now to where it runs well as it sits so I have a better grasp on tuning it after the swap. I can't believe that even with the very mild setup I'm having such a bitch of a time getting this tune right.

 

Gauge gets its signal from the sensor in the head. EBL gets its temp from the CTS at the front of the intake.

 

I wouldn't trust the temp gauge, but I would test the CTS just to be sure it isn't out of spec.

 

OK about the cts issue but how do I remedy the tip in issues? I've done a search and I can't quite find how to do it.

 

Reduce TPS AE.

 

Is the Delta TPS% Threshold for AE? If so mine is set at 1.96.

 

Use the "AE - CTS Multiplier %" table to compensate the AE for varying engine coolant temperature.

RBob.

 

I ran OL for one half a tuning season. result was my MPG was in the toilet. I bet 20% less MPG.

 

Honestly my mpg really hasn't changed. I might have lost a gallon per mile. I raised my rpm multiplier as well earlier in the season. would reducing that help with the sudden richness on tip in?

 

Reducing that % multiplier will reduce the AE at that specific RPM. Is your issue only at a specific RPM?

 

It only really happens when I take off from a stop or if I give it alittle gas from a roll. After about a few seconds it pops back up.

 

If engine is hesitating it might be very well lean. The rich condition you reported on(9.0-11.0) is not overy rich in my opinion. I would think the engine could burn that fuel but would be somewhat sluggish if a bit fat. There is a table to increase the time duration of the AE event. I forget what it is called. I am at office so cant check that now.

 

Use the "AE - CTS Multiplier %" table to correct this.

Do ALL initial AE tuning when the engine is up to temperature. Then if lean with a cold engine use the ""AE - CTS Multiplier %"" table to compensate.

Same if rich or lean on a hot engine. Use the ""AE - CTS Multiplier %"" table to compensate.

RBob.

 

OK I increased the AE CTS tables under 68 another 25%. It ehlped but I think I need to up it some more. I lowered my AE RPM tables about 5% and it helped alittle but one thing I did notice is that when my enigne is alittle cold the car leans out when AE stops. I was watching my Whatsup and saw this. Would increasing AE duration help in this situation?

 

I would think so. I believe increasing the duration may reduce the quantity of AE. You may need to address that in your AE/TPS and AE/MAP tables.

 

You can change the duration of the AE by using the filter tables. One for MAP and the other for TPS. A smaller filter value will extend the duration of the AE along with increasing the volume of AE. But the main use of these two tbales is to control the duration.

Be sure to only change the table values in the CTS range of interest. Lower the value to lengthen the duration. Then smooth into the adjacent rows.

AE - MAP Filter
AE - TPS Filter

RBob.

 

"smooth into the adjacent rows" Forgive my "newbidness" but what are you meaning by that? Smooth the VE or smooth in the AE tables?

 

When you change one row it usually produces a step in the table values. By changing the adjacent rows a little the step is reduced. It reduces the magnitude of the change as the temperature changes.

RBob.

 

Could you show me an example?

 

I will assume you are using tunerpro. If you highlight the rows above and below or all areas of table for that matter. then you click on I beleive the "toolbox(?)" there is a smoothing factor. I believe tunerpro uses .10 -1.00. I have been using .85 -.95. Larger # is believe is less smoothing. If you write down before and after values you will see effect. It does not change drastically IMO. It creates a smoother slope or transition from one area of table to other. The graphing feature also will show the before after as well. Less ragged so to speak.

 

ok do I do this in the VE tables or the AE Map/Tps tables?

 

smoothing? It is in TP toolbox I believe.

 

OK...... WHAT TABLES DO I SMOOTH OUT???? THE VE TABLES OR THE AE TABLES??????

 

I typed the entire message then I lost connection. Gremlins?

 

I will try again.

RBobs comment:
Be sure to only change the table values in the CTS range of interest. Lower the value to lengthen the duration. Then smooth into the adjacent row.

RBob was refering to this table and his comment: Use the "AE - CTS Multiplier %" table to correct this.

Smoothening works best for me for VE and SA. Not so well for AE since AE is in multiples of 61usec(61-122-183-244-305 etc). If you saw mine you would LOL. Mine for AE-TPS are 61-61-122-122-122-122-122-183. Reason being I think due to VAFPR. I am at 11.5 lbs FP idle and 19.5 WOT. Plus 80 lbs injs I flow a lot of pumpshot.

 

OK I've been playing with my AE TPS and MAP Filters and I've noticed a few things. I've developed a nasty stumble when the car is cold. Like it wants to stall. I've also tried playing back and forth with my AE CTS and RPM mulitiplier tables to try and clear things up. When the car goes INTO AE it goes VERY RICH. again in the 9.0-10.0 range and car feels like s.hit. Even when it's warmed up it goes rich when AE is invoked.Once it goes OUT of AE it leans back out to around 13.7-15.5 range. So what can I do to try to clear this up? This is really starting to **** me off. Is there anything in the constants I can change to help? Like the transient map/tps tables or in the AE Delta tables? I'm honestly at a loss right now.

 

Don't change the AE - RPM compensation table for temperature related AE issues.

Do change the AE - CTS compensation table(s) for temperature related AE issues.

Best bet at this time is to start over with getting the ENGINE OPERATING TEMPERATURE AND TEMPERATURE NEUTRAL BASED AE TABLE(s) CORRECT.

Then for cold temperatures use the CTS based tables.

That is how AE works.

RBob.

 

I only tune the engine when it is at operating temperature. I understand how the AE is working but it still doesn't explain to me as to why it will go so rich then lean out once out of AE. I reset my AE RPM tables back to the stock settings and bumped it up 5%. If left in the stock settings I'm not getting enough fuel. I have probably bumped up my AE CTS tables 400% to get it to where it is now. But, I'm thinking about backing it off abit to see if that helps with the sudden rich issue. So answer me this. When the car IS NOT IN AE why would it lean out? I have even manually played with my VE tables in the 800-2000 range to see if I can "fake" AE. Forgive me if I don't seem like I'm getting what you guys are saying I just feel like without showing you guys what is going on you might not really know what I'm talking about. So I plan on making a small video of what's going on to let you guys see what I am seeing.

 

I was going to mention a section of data log. But video sounds good too.

Increasing the VE as you mentioned is helpful. And is more common then thought.

In a way it also sounds like the fuel pressure may be dropping off from AE. This will run you in circles as the tune keeps changing.

If the ECM is in closed loop too much AE will drive the INT/BLM down which then causes a lean area once the AE runs out.

RBob.

 

Roberts fuel pump: ACDELCO EP241 Fuel Pump,

What is the application specs?

 

It's a TPI pump. I checked my fuel pressure and it holds steady as a rock at 16 psi. I can bump it up even higher but at this point I don't see the need. Even at WOT my DC is only 85-92%. I'm still only running in open loop. To me it's making life a touch easier.

 

Roberts first post: but it still seems that the car will run very lean while it's still fairly cold. It doesn't seem to perk up till after 170-180 degrees.

RBobs comment: Use the "AE - CTS Multiplier %" table to compensate the AE for varying engine coolant temperature.

Do ALL initial AE tuning when the engine is up to temperature. Then if lean with a cold engine use the ""AE - CTS Multiplier %"" table to compensate. Same if rich or lean on a hot engine. Use the ""AE - CTS Multiplier %"" table to compensate.

Roberts post:it still doesn't explain to me as to why it will go so rich then lean out once out of AE.

Ron says: You are OL so it uses the values in the OL rpm/coolant/map tables. may need to add some fuel in that table. Is you BPC calc'd correctly? BPC may affect A/F in that table. Once out of AE I would presume you fall back into that table. Or you enter PE. My datalogs/graphs show what you are seeing in AE event,. Onset of AE with a double spike with enrichment then leans out. If I stay on pedal I go PE. Might be a lag from AE event to PE event. you can reduce % of TPS required to go PE. Stock I believe is 70% or so. Might try 50-60% on that.