getting to know my car .
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 727
Likes: 1
From: Riverside (Wood Crest) , CA
Car: 1988 Pontiac trans am
Engine: 305
Transmission: 700R4
getting to know my car .
so i data logged last night for the first time , it was interesting how the ecm is making adjustments every second . anywho , i have been trying to solve this problem for almost 6 months now . my car keeps on running rich so i decided to datalog to get a better understanding of whas going on and why . so here are a couple of screenshots i took while data logging . as soon as i took the second screen shot my car died " one gallon of gas gone in less than 30 minutes idleing " , anyone mind pointing me in the rigth direction based on what's on the datalog ?


Re: getting to know my car .
Hmm... I see a few curious things
1.) Your MAP is way too high. 97.4 kPA? Was that during the idling? That's WOT throttle type of MAP values. Maybe you have a vacuum leak somewhere between the manifold and the MAP sensor? Or somehow the polarity of the MAP sensor connector is somehow reversed? The MAP Values in the raw data portion show 236? Not sure what units WINALDL assigns to that.
2.) Your IAC steps are too high. It's maxed out at 160. You need to adjust your idle such that you're idling somewhere between 0 and 20 steps in park/neutral. I believe there's a sticky someplace regarding the idle setting procedure.
3.) You don't appear to be in closed loop. The closed loop flag is not set. In which case, your BLM values aren't telling me anything. But If you're in open loop idling with 97.4 kPa, that'll cause the ECM to throw in A LOT of fuel.
1.) Your MAP is way too high. 97.4 kPA? Was that during the idling? That's WOT throttle type of MAP values. Maybe you have a vacuum leak somewhere between the manifold and the MAP sensor? Or somehow the polarity of the MAP sensor connector is somehow reversed? The MAP Values in the raw data portion show 236? Not sure what units WINALDL assigns to that.
2.) Your IAC steps are too high. It's maxed out at 160. You need to adjust your idle such that you're idling somewhere between 0 and 20 steps in park/neutral. I believe there's a sticky someplace regarding the idle setting procedure.
3.) You don't appear to be in closed loop. The closed loop flag is not set. In which case, your BLM values aren't telling me anything. But If you're in open loop idling with 97.4 kPa, that'll cause the ECM to throw in A LOT of fuel.
Last edited by ULTM8Z; Jan 15, 2010 at 07:53 PM.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,180
Likes: 3
From: Browns Town
Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller 236/242
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 2.4K stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break
Re: getting to know my car .
The engine is not running in those screenshots.
Impossible diagnose much anything from that.
What you want to see is "where" in the fuel map it is rich. This would be indicated by the BLM value being less than 128 (perfect fueling).
Using the BLM correction values that are logged, you can adjust the fuel map so the numbers come back into line at 128 in the cells the numbers are off.
Read up in the Tuning guide in the stickys to get familiar with the process and how the system functions. It is a system, not just numbers that need to be adjusted. You'll do much better thinking in those terms.
You do have a rich O2 error showing. Clear that error before logging again.
Jp
Impossible diagnose much anything from that.
What you want to see is "where" in the fuel map it is rich. This would be indicated by the BLM value being less than 128 (perfect fueling).
Using the BLM correction values that are logged, you can adjust the fuel map so the numbers come back into line at 128 in the cells the numbers are off.
Read up in the Tuning guide in the stickys to get familiar with the process and how the system functions. It is a system, not just numbers that need to be adjusted. You'll do much better thinking in those terms.
You do have a rich O2 error showing. Clear that error before logging again.
Jp
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 727
Likes: 1
From: Riverside (Wood Crest) , CA
Car: 1988 Pontiac trans am
Engine: 305
Transmission: 700R4
Re: getting to know my car .
@ ULTM8Z , yes this was during idle about 16 minutes into running the car then it died ,
@JP86SS i have another screenshot of it running , im just trying to get used to the program ,still finding other features.
@JP86SS i have another screenshot of it running , im just trying to get used to the program ,still finding other features.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 354
Likes: 1
From: Manchester,PA
Car: 86 Firebird SE
Engine: 2.8L
Re: getting to know my car .
Has the ECM thrown any codes? If so I would start there. Look at your TPS voltage and where its set. Check your manual for the correct voltage. Your coolant temp sensor could be bad as well. If its stuck in the cold position, the ECM will not enter closed loop because it thinks the engine is still cold and throw ALOT of fuel at it to try and warm it up. Same goes for a bad O2 sensor. If its telling the ECM that the exhaust is lean then itll dump fuel. Vacuum leaks are another reason. A bad MAP sensor could cause all of these problems. It has a vacuum line running to it and if that line is leaking, it wont get the correct pressure readings. The MAP sensor and TPS are two good reasons for stalling at idle as well as vacuum leaks. I would look at these things first. If theres no codes, then start checking those things. A Chilton's or Haynes manual shows you how if you dont already know. Another thing that will cause a crappy idle is bad plug wires. If each cylinder is not burning its fuel, it just gets dumped into the exhaust system half burned or not burned at all.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 727
Likes: 1
From: Riverside (Wood Crest) , CA
Car: 1988 Pontiac trans am
Engine: 305
Transmission: 700R4
Re: getting to know my car .
@ 86ttopbird , believe me i've been through all that , thats why i am data logging now instead of just throwing new parts at the problem . I made sure there are no vaccum leaks , i replaced the hard plastic vaccum hoses with good year vaccum hose, made sure i have no exhaust leaks before the o2 sensor , new ac delcos are in there , new plugg wires, btw this problem occured post rebuild "upper engine ,gaskets intake and exhaust seals , throttle body unit rebuild " no codes in the ecm .
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Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 727
Likes: 1
From: Riverside (Wood Crest) , CA
Car: 1988 Pontiac trans am
Engine: 305
Transmission: 700R4
Re: getting to know my car .
ok , found out the wonders of hypercam so here's a vid of it running in closed loop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy5PMV3IY-Y
btw i didnt record any longer because during recording i started hearing a trickle sound , ao i turn on my dome light and
what do i find ? , a puddle of hot steamy coolant on my passengers side floor . its the heater core that went out " jsut my luck !"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy5PMV3IY-Y
btw i didnt record any longer because during recording i started hearing a trickle sound , ao i turn on my dome light and
what do i find ? , a puddle of hot steamy coolant on my passengers side floor . its the heater core that went out " jsut my luck !"
Last edited by Birdstheword; Jan 18, 2010 at 12:01 AM.
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