The older LSx engines have the 24x trigger wheel. Anyone know if the wheel looks like the Northstar pattern? I have a few pics that shows the LSx looks to have a dual pattern built into it like the northstar pattern.

 

I don't know about the specifics of the wheel pattern, but an external wheel could always be adapted and used to trigger a N* DIS system. Similar to what I id with my Nissan I6, to use a DIS ignition from a 60 degree V6.

 

Yeah, worst case I could put a 36-1 on the front along with an Ford EDIS.

The LSx wheel is a 24-0 wheel along with a 1x cam sensor. I didn't find any modules that will fire 4 or 8 coils. One option is put a HEI module on the crank and cam sensors and feed the output into the 730 ECM. Have that fire 4 wasted spark coils. The outputs are there, but the code change would take a while.
It would be nice to use the stock protected crank & cam sensors but easier to use the Ford EDIS in the long run.
I was just wondering if there are any v8 ICMs out there that would work with the 24-0 wheel and 1x cam wheel. The Northstar wheel is a dual pattern with 24x for resolution and more teeth for syncing. I like the Ford EDIS better than the Northstar setup.

 

Why would you want to? The LSX pcm would be a much faster/better choice!

 

Yeah, except for the fact that I can't recode it to run the N2O, water/alky injection, extra IAT sensors, extra 3_bar MAP sensor, change ALL the 4L60E parameters.
The LSx has very limited coverage in terms of what you can tweak for the CAL. With the OBD1 stuff we have disassembled code that shows everything that can be tuned and allows for code updates. This is what makes these ECMs a way_better_choice than the LSX PCM. Not to mention the outrageous price the LSX tuning software is for the limited tunability that is given.

 

good luck with it!

 

How well does the LSX handle boost and the stuff that goes with it? Or is that a cost add-on?

It is nothing new here. Even the megasquirt MS1 that has been around forever will run the LSx engine. So for $140 it could be up and running with good tuning software. The only problem with that option is the lack of ECM outputs to control turbocharger stuff that is on the current engine. It also makes doing the 4L60E more difficult.

I will look at the straight 730 control, but in the end it will probably be Ford EDIS igniting it with the 427 ECM controlling a relay to power the coils to cut spark (rev limit).

 

Im running my LTx with an LSx PCM and a 3 bar map. My wideband info is availible on my gauge or data logged through the PCM. I dont use the PCM for boost control since I prefer a stand alone controller for that (ams 500, Eboost, or Truboost). other than that I didnt need any "extra add ons".

 

How are you running the Ford EDIS with a GM ECM?

I've looked into it, as well as several others, and the ESC and SAW signals are too different to work correctly has been the consensus. The GM ICM takes care of dwell, while the For EDIS relies on the SAW signal from the ECM to control dwell.

Have you written code to add in the dwell to the ESC output?

If that could be patched into other code it would make it easier for some people's conversions, since there seems to be more support for the EDIS than the GM DIS, even though I find the EDIS parts to be harder to find, the ICMs I mean, not the trigger wheels, those are easily attainable in the aftermarket.

What is it that you don't like about the N* ICM?

 

Is that a linear 3_bar MAP? if so, they the resolution is horrible and there is no point running a PCM that is good/fast like you said. Why do you pefer an add-on controller for extra cost? A properly coded PCM should handle that better than the add on controller.
How do you measure aftercooler efficiency, control the water/alky, switch on traction control, measure EBP? Can you log all that stuff or is the wideband the only allowable add on?

 

You are right on all accounts. It will be a winter project. It all depends if I end up with this 5.3 LSx engine.
Yes, the EDIS is different. The PIP signal to the ECM is when the coil fires, not the DRP like an HEI / DIS sends which is before the coil fires. Not a big deal, just subtract out some time time to make it look like a DRP.
The ECM currently sends out a direct coil control which is how long to charge (pulsewidth) and when to fire. This needs to be changed to just a pulsewidth to control the advance. The EDIS takes care of the charge time itself.

Overall, it isn't that bad but I will need to build a bench setup for this EDIS stuff. In terms of parts availability I see it as I4 and V6 DIS easiest to get, then EDIS stuff, then Northstar. That is one reason I like the EDIS over Northstar. The other thing is I don't care that much about SEFI which EDIS doesn't have an option for. The best I could do with the 427 ECM is sync 2 of the 8 cyls which isn't bad but not worth it in my opinion. I also don't care for having funky Northstar wheels made when the EDIS are widely available. Also there are LSx 36-1 wheels available for the crank itself. So later on if I was in the engine I would install the 36-1 and remove the 36-1 off of the front.

 

the biggest headache with the northstar system would be the 2 crank sensors (cam sensor not needed). If you could implement that cleanly, the ecm side of this is super easy. A couple of timing endpoint tweaks and it 'looks' like a standard distributor.

otherwise, to keep the trigger wheel inside the engine, fab up an EDIS wheel that fits on the crank instead of the 24x wheel, and then it's just like using the EDIS without the wheel outside. the headaches come with implementing the EDIS controls in the '730.

the older northstar stuff is still pretty available, I've passed over complete coil pack/controllers several times now in the junkyards...just don't have the need at this point for them.

 

I agree about the systems in terms of implementation. The Northstar is easier to code, but requires a more complex trigger wheel. The EDIS is more code, but the wheel is easy to obtain. One of the motivations for this project is to learn the ECM spark timers. It is one thing I haven't really looked at much in terms of how they operate. They look to run at 64Khz and record the DRP (distr ref period) and calculate "base_adv + dwell time + adv" using multiple timers.
The other motivation is that vortec engines are widely available for a reasonable price now and the EDIS is pretty cheap. I would like to ditch my 010 block 355ci and TH350 and replace it with a 5.3 vortec with a 4L60E. I just don't want the OBD-II setup.

 

Could you use 2 4cyl DIS units and a crank senor(s)? Or are you trying to use what's there?

How have you been fine sir? (<<<see now's the name calling haha) Seems like we meet about this time of year

 

No, two 4 cyl DIS units would fire too often, or at the wrong times anyway, since they are still based on 360* of crank rotation.

the N* DIS would be best to use.

 

Interesting project. I'm running Code 59 on a 730 using a Megajolt controlled EDIS setup. Would be nice to be able to eliminate the Megajolt box and run entirely off the ECU. If you go forward with this I'm equipped to play guinea pig and would be glad to help wherever I can.

 

I meant using similar wheel configs (external wheel, like you did) using 2 4cyl ICM's firing at proper times. ECM sends a voltage signal that can be split to run 2 ICM's firing at proper times.

EDIT: How you been, C? Haven't chatted in a while with you either lol.

 

Yeah, think about how the trigger wheels are set up...
They are based on a 360* rotation, using a 7x reluctor wheel, just like the 660... I don't see how each pair would fire at correct times. I'll have to draw it out later.

The N* is still the best DIS set-up for a V8, using an OBD1 Delco ECM.

I've been alright, going to school full time and working as much is getting tiring.

 

i can say forsure that the northstar setup works great on a 727 and 59 lol



be cool if the edis did too, but for me getting a wheel cut and mount 2 sensors was much easier than the tech side.