I have been lurking on this great forum for almost two years now reading and printing a lot of info as prerequisite for my project. I bought an APU1 AutoProm, GP1 and HDR1 about six months ago, but have not used any of them till lately. I have a laptop I use in the garage, which is loaded with TP RT v5, adx file and a bin file to experiment with. I have raced circle track, formula and built hot rods. All had carburation except the formula road racing which had Kinsler Mechanical F.I. I'm familiar with EFI but all I did was scan, diagnose and fix. NO PROGRAMING. It's time for a retirement project.

The project: Replace the current carburated SBC/TH350 in my 36 Chev with a 91 5.0L TPI/700r4. I rebuilt both the trans and engine waiting start up. The engine is mounted in a test stand full of oil and coolant.
ECM - 7730
Memcal - AWFY bcc (5 speed) but I also have ARZC bcc (auto)
Harness - from the manual trans.

The Plan:
Break-in the engine on the test stand and swap it out at a later date after the following items are addressed.
Disable VATS.
Disable A.I.R.
Remove purge can.
Bypass start enable.
Run only one cooling fan.

The hotrod has a pre 80 GM steering column with the lock in the column. The test stand has an old school ignition switch with Acc/Off/Run/Start positions. Mechanical gauges for oil pressure, water coolant, vacuum and tach.

Harness:
The manual harness does not have gear selection connector, but has a shift light connector connected to ECM pin F1. That wire was moved to pin F6 (same color) for TCC control and added pin D14 for 4th gear switch signal. Deleted connectors for A/C, 2nd fan, vats and other items to be deleted or safely put aside out of use. A bulb was attached for the SES.

Engine:
Injectors are new Ford Yellow top 19 LBS. A short style water pump with clockwise rotation with one pulley/belt from the crankshaft. No other accessories attached, like alternator for now. The starter connected directly to the ignition lock. Fuel is fed via an external inline Bosch max of 50 PSI. Fuel tank is an old racing 4 gallon fuel cell. Radiator is cooled by an electric fan running thru a toggle switch on the stand's dash. A light bulb is in place of the regular fan to signal when it's on. I want to have control of the fan in case it runs hot too soon. No coolant is running thru the throttle body.

Short cuts:
A toggle switch on the stand's dash simulates transmission neutral switch, one side is in gear the other side in Park/Neutral to test for starting in gear. A normal break switch is also connected to simulate the pedal.

Progress:
Once everything was hooked up, cranking was check and as expected no start cuz no fuel yet. Did have spark so I shot it with starter fluid and bingo, ran for a couple of seconds. Great.
Put some fuel in the tank and primed the fuel pump to check for leaks. A-OK 45 PSI and held for a good 10 minutes. Again good, no injector leaks and pressure regulator works. Tested for starting on it's own fuel, no chance, injectors not firing. Yeah, well I have not toughed the chip yet.

Programming:
This was the test of how well I searched the forum. After hooking up Moates equipment (APU1 & G1) to the laptop and the ECM, I loaded up TunerPro RT v5, $8D and the newer AXXF and checked the status line. I was happy to see the hardware recognized and ready to go. I only made one change, deleting the VATS by unchecking bit 4. Believe it or not at this point I had the fear I did something to short out and cook the harness or worse the ECM.
So I said to myself, "Self, give it a try". I was ready to reach for the carb to close the choke and give it a couple of shots. But I realized it was only a brain fade. Reached for the key, 2 rpms and it ran. Holly crap it was nice.
About ten seconds in the run, the SES light went out and started to run a little rough like when the choke sticks a little. So I goosed it a couple of time and a little black smoke came out. At this point I was happy it ran so after 5 minutes I shut it off. Any idea on the rich condition?

I know it's winded. I attached some pics to show the setup. Thanks for your patience.

 

Nice, If you need a axxb let me know !!

 

tunedperformanc - Thanks for the compliment. I thought AXXF was the latest 5.0L/Auto bcc than the AXXB. I don't know the difference between them. Is it not better to use the latest?

So back to my project. I used the AutoProm/G1 with the memcal on the adapter to emulate. When the engine ran with the VATS deleted, I saved the bin to a file. Good thing I got the reminder that the file was changed and the opportunity to save it. Now when I restart TunerPro RT v5, will it default to the stock AXXF or will it load the modified version? Please remember, although I'm an old school builder, I know jack about programming. So sometimes I WILL sound stupid.

My next step is to disable/delete the rest of the items I mentioned in my 1st post and attempt to burn a chip. That way I can monitor what the engine is doing.
Questions:
1-Can I monitor the engine while I'm in the emulation mode, by loading the "Dash" on the computer? Have to read some more on this.
2-Any comments on the light puff of black (rich) smoke at start up? The injectors are Ford Bosch stock yellow top with black metal body supposetly rated at 19 LBS. (I edited plastic body to metal body)

 

You thought you were old school, I have a pocket programmer 2 and uv eraser, lol I do have a ostrich2 and burn2 as well. soon a ebl p4... The ford yellows are 19#hr injectors, before you try to compensate with tuning I would check for leaky injectors. Does your fuel rail hold a consistant pressure overnight? You are correct on the axxf and axxb slight differences in these chips for tire size and the both have the same release dates.
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/he...rd_code_43.pdf
The autoprom should load the last saved .bin, I have not used this and actually never used my ostrich. When I built a 305 for my camaro I tuned it with data logging with a diacom plus and than reburned chips. I wasnt going to start to use the ostrich2 until I get my 383 superram done and then I was thinking dynamicefi.com ebl p4 is the ultimate way togo. Wish I could be of more help.

 

Btw trying to gain knowledge is not stupid !!!

 

tunedperformance - Checking around I found at injector resources, that the Ford injectors I have are rated 19# @39.1 psi, which at GM's 43.5 they yield 21.1#. My setup maintains 43psi at the feed rail. You can see the gauge in the 1st pic. The pressure drops 10psi after 4hrs and is zero over nite. Thanks for the PDF file, I like the breakdown. Are those type of documents available to the public?
After any change I click on "Update", then I click on "Download current bin from Emulator to File" icon (TP RT), with a different name. Something like from the original AXXF_8d.bin to the new file AXXF_8d_novats.bin. This morning the file that was automatically loaded when TP was executed had the original name showing at the top, but the changes were there. So does that mean the file I downloaded from TunerPro's web site and saved on my HD is changed? Or does TP save a separate file from the emulator. I have not had a chance to compare the two files. Don't know how to do that within TP yet.

This morning, the engine started right away just using the AutoProm in emulation mode. That to me is fantastic that I did all this (as simple as it is to some peeps), just by reading and the imput from the forum in other threads. Just because the thread was not mine, it helped me a heck of a lot.

Now I have to figure out how to Emulate and Datalog and view what's going on while the engine is running. I read on Moates web site that YES, I can Emulate and Datalog at the same time.

 

You might need a afpr, back to the injectors You might want to prime the system and not start it and pull the plugs several hours later to see if you get some fuel in a cylinder. Some drain back through the pump is normal. I think mine drops about 12psi overnight bock through the pump.As long as you don't have rapid bleed down, meaning you go from 40psi to 10psi in less than an hour, you should be OK. and might want to get adjustable fuel pressure regulator. G.m service bulletins are not easily available but the can be could on the web. I have a hard time trusting downloaded .bins but I have ton's of gm ones I have collected over the years. I honestly don't know about tunerpro operation. The last time I tuned my car I was using Tunercat. I need to get acquainted with tp.

 

This is the 2nd time I am writing this. After about 10 lines I hit some keys and the reply box disappeared and don't know where it went. Too bad we can't have a boob smiley, that would be me.

I checked the f/p 8 hours after it last ran and it was down to 10psi. I also pulled 6 out of 8 plugs and they were all clean. The engine only has 15 minutes of running. I am pleased I got this far without any glitches. Thanks for all the threads available. Then I burnt a chip and stuck it in the G1's zif socket. Engine started right up and ran good. I get an initial puff of black smoke, I can see it against the light gray floor color ( maybe I'm fussy) but while running no indication of richness, visual or smell. So far so good.

Then I decided to check a couple of things. I set up a "TunerPro RT Dash" with just RPM, TPS, Coolant Temp and Bat volts. At this point I want to check the TPS status, temp and bat volts with just the key on and NO START. I set the APU1 AutoProm switches.
Inner switch away from the USB port (open between A-B).
Outer switch away from the USB port (stand alone mode).
Plug in the USB cable between the laptop and APU1.
Specify USB port: Tools>Preferences>Data Acq/Emulation [Tab]>Interface Type>Use Plug In, Select Com5 (to match what Device Manager lists). Click on OK/Apply/OK, which closes the window.
Connect the ALDL cable between the ALDL connector and the AutoProm.
Turn the key to "On" only. No start.

Observation: Nothing!!!!!! No volts. No reading when I move the throttle body and no temperature.

I'm missing something ain't I? There's got to be something in the software I must initiate. I even selected "Start recording" and when I clicked on "Stop" I got the dialog window to save the file. I don't want to save a file at this point, just check the setup by reading something like the TPS and volts. I'm stumped and I need your help more than ever.
in advance.

 

You might want to join the moates fourm as well.



can you find this post now !!!

 

You shouldn't be showing that to an old man. I'll hurry on to Moates's web site.

 

lol, wish I knew that program I would help. sounds like the little puff you were seeing is ok

 

Yeah, not worried about the initial puff. Just spent 2 hours on Moates forum. I just about read ALL the threads. To my disappointment the majority are not replied to showing 0 (zero) for replies. Others have one reply and never re-addressed. A couple of thread dealt with "No ALDL communication, but none well explained. So I'm going to try a couple of suggestions by Craig, Mangus and other gurus and see what happens. I do not understand when one is to look into "checksum", "latency" or other preferences. Just gotta keep trying.

 

If you are trying to use the emulation of the Autoprom you should have the outer switch inward and the Interface type set to AutoProm.

If you are using the APU1 as a pass through data logging cable then you would set it as you described.

Once you have the preferences set, look at the bottom of the
TP screen and you will see that it has found the autoProm.
If it does not you can click a button on the ttolbar to initialize hardware. Then it will be found.

Upload your bin to the AP, then turn on emulation.

From there your motor should run from the APU1. Turning on the ALDL data button will then give you movement on the dash etc. You'll get nothing if the bin is not loaded and operating from the AP.

Once you have data showing comes the fun part...
If your definition file has associations defined you can turn on the data tracing fubnction and see where you are in the tables as you are running.
Very cool feature.
HTH,
Jp

 

JP86SS - "Turning on the ALDL data button will then give you movement on the dash etc." Is that the icon with 2 arrows pointing left & right, 'Acquire Data(Connect/Disconnect)'? The only icon I clicked on was the one with the pic of a chip 'Enable/Disable Emulation'. If not, how do I do that? I'm not in the garage this morning, but I will try it 1st chance I get. Thanks for the support.

 

OK, I had a chance to follow up on JP's suggestion. I'm using the APU1 as a stand alone via TunerPro RT v5 set up this way.

Inner switch - away from USB port (non 10K)
Outer switch - away from USB port (Pass thru)
USB cable between PC and APU1
ALDL cable between APU1 and ECM ALDL connector
Tools/Preferences/Data Acq.[tab]
Interface type>Use Plug-in
Configure Plug-in Component>Com5 (per Device Manager)
Bring up the dash.
Turn the key to on (no start)
Click on the L&R arrows Icon to initiate data acquisition.
Worked as far as the gauges reading something.

Dash Setup:
Bat volts - reads 12.3 (DMM reads 12.5v)
RPM - reads zero (engine off)
TPS volts - .55v and 3.3 WOT (gauge face from .55 to 4.31)
CTS - -40*C (gauge face -40 to 151.25)

Issue:
The dash glitches (like refresh) every second and the analog needles peg up from zero to 700rpm, TPS from .55 to 2.65v, CTS glitches just off -40 mark and volts (digital) from 0 to 12.3v
The status boxes at the bottom say Not Emulating, hardware not found (due to being pass thru), flips between 8.xxhz/9.xxhz Error:0.. (not visible) and DA: connected.

What else am I missing?

 

I had time to try something else. The AutoProm is capable of Simultaneous Emulation and Datalogging. Here's what I did.

Removed the chip and replaced it with the 28 pin ribbon.
The ALDL and USB cables still plugged in.
Inner switch - toward the USB port (10K)
Outer switch - toward the USB port (AutoProm mode)
USB cable between PC and APU1
ALDL cable between APU1 and ECM ALDL connector
Tools/Preferences/Data Acq.[tab]
Interface type>AutoProm/MAFTPro
Bring up the dash.
Initialize hardware, which shows AutoProm v2.17A
Initialize Emulation which gave me the "Emulating"
Enable Emulation.
Upload the binary file to APU1 and verified.
Click on the L&R arrows Icon to initiate data acquisition.
Turn the key to on (no start)
The status line showed "Emulating", "Hardware: AutoProm v2.17.A", "xx.xxHz Errors:0" and "DA:Connected"

Results were great WITHOUT ANY GLITCHING.
Volts: 12.3v
RPM: zero
TPS volts: .55 and 3.3 @WOT
CTS: -40*C

Not being happy with the TPS volts and CTS temperature, I decided to add another TPS % gauge, which showed me I was only 80%. Checking the TPS I noticed the hose clamp holding the K&N taper filter was interfering with the travel. Moved the clamp screw to the opposite side and it cured that problem Now I get 99.85% travel with 4.31v @WOT which is the max on the gauge.

Then I plugged the CTS connector to another sensor just hanging there and it matched the temp in the garage. I don't feel like changing the sensor and drain the block to replace it. I still have the mechanical gauge. OOPS, wait a minute, the ECM needs the input doesn't.

QUESTIONS:
1. Remember in my 1st post I mentioned a puff of smoke? Does the CTS error have anything to do with that, putting it in flood mode? But that should cut off the injectors.
2. Why the glitches in stand-alone mode? It runs off the chip.

 

Yes to the CTS, most important sensor there is. As the ECM can know that it is bad, but can't create a default value other then say 40* C for it.

RBob.

 

The timing of the com port can get glitchy like that.
What you need is a increase in the delay between the ALDL data requests. (It is restarting before all the data is captured)
Under Aquisition, goto Edit Definition.
There is a command and a reply for the datastream defined somewhere in there. You may also have a macro that does the request and reply sequence for you.
If you do not have a "Pause" item defined you can do the following:

• Click the last item in the command tree
• Click "Add New Item" and select "Listen for silence"
• Add names and unique ID text as you wish called PAUSE or DELAY.
• Set the Timeout box to 20 mS (can work as low as 10 and as high as 80 from my experience, if you still get glitches try making it larger until you data aquisition rate drops)
• Save

Then go back in to the editor and create a macro that will do the sequence for you by clicking again on an item in commands and clicking Add New Item (or edit the existing macro if one is there)

Add names etc as desired, Macro should contain (In this order):
PAUSE item you just created
Dump request Send
Dump request Reply

Save again and try it in pass through mode.
Jp

 

Rbob - Thanks, that convinces me to drain the block and change the CTS.

JP86SS - 1st of all what you wrote is over my head, for now and I have to read the TP help section related to this. My apology for not being in tune with you (no pun intended). But, why does it NOT glitch when I'm in Simultaneous Emulation and Data Logging? The differences in settings are ribbon vs chip, switch settings, Interface and bin upload to the APU1. Is there a chance that the burn is corrupted? Yet the motor runs OK of the chip. Should I attempt to re-burn the chip?

 

Yes, get that other CTS sensor in. The ECM will essentialy choke the engine because it thinks the block is cold. This very reason is how I got a nice, low mile, G20 cargo can for $500

You should be able to verify the chip if I remember right, but it doesn't sound like the problem. With my laptop connected to the ALDL port, TunerPro has a noticable lag in refresh rate.

Don't quote me on this, this is how I assume it works Looking at the incoming data, it essentialy takes a snapshot of all the sensors and sends out a bundle of raw data out the the PC. Older technology, slower speeds. With emulation, the newer technology can transmit information much faster and act exactly like the chip.

 

Separate your thoughts as to data logging and running from the chip.
They are two different things.
The "Chip" or emulating program "Bin" MUST be operating to allow any communication with the data logger. This is because on these models the bin contains the software routines that control the communication in/out of the ECM.

Once the bin is running, there is a request sequence sent to the ECM and the running program executes the routine to send out the data.

The reply package of data is then read by the logging program.
If there is not enough time for the reply to be fully read before asking for more data then you get glitches etc.
The explaination above add a delay before requesting data again.
HTH.

 

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or missing something. But I changed the "Timeout" from 10 to 4,000 (4k) with no change. I tried following JP's instructions, read a couple of threads on TGO and a couple on TP forum. Here's what I did.

Acquisition>Edit definition
In the Editor tree click on the +Commands to Expand it.
Click on the last item
Click "Add New Item" and selected "Listen for Silence"
Left the TITLE as "Listen for Silence"
Unique ID - Wait
Left the Baud and Silence Length at 0 (default)
Set the "Timeout" to 10 (what I started with)
Clicked on "Save"

Acquisition>Edit definition
In the Editor tree click on the +Commands to Expand it.
Click on the last item
Click "Add New Item" and selected "Macro Command"
TITLE - ListenMac
Unique ID - Wait Command
Click on "Add New" button
Selected "Listen for Silence"
Click on "Add New" button
Selected "Mode 1 ALDL Dump Request Send" with no changes
Click on "Add New" button
Selected "Mode 1 ALDL Dump Request Reply" with no changes
Click on "Save"

Turn the key to ON, no start.
Click on "Data Acquisition Connect/Disconnect" icon
Status line shows connected in blue
Dash gauges react to TPS movement, CTS at room temperature and Bat volts.
The dash refresh is visible (glitches) approximately every second.

I went back to the "Timeout" entry and changed that in increments of 10 up to 100
Increments of 50 up to 1000
Increments of 200 up to 4000 (obviously way too long)
Each time save, click on DA Conn/Disconn, but the results did not impact the glitching at all.

My observation is this. On TP forum, the thread by SAAR lists the macro commands in this order. SEND, REPLY, PAUSE. The default "Timeout" in both Send and Reply in my editor is 400.
OK, I already have my back to you so you can kick me. But please explain what I need to do. Right now I can log via emulation without glitches, but once the engine is in the car I want to Data Log with the chip in it. Man, what will us rookies, old in my case, do without you guys. Thanks again.

 

I think I have it solved. I deleted the "ListenMac" macro I created.
Then I clicked on "Mode 1 ALDL Dump Request Macro".
Added "Listen for Silence" command I created.
Placed it above the Send & Reply commands already in "Mode 1 ALDL Dump Request Macro".
Changed the "Timeout" value in "Listen for Silence" command.
Saved it and click on "Connect".

I started with 5ms and it glitched.
I changed it to 10ms and it worked. Is 15 or 20 better?

When I had the glitching, is it possible that the software executes the first macro it sees. Which in this case it was the "Mode 1 ALDL Dump Request Macro" without the "Listen" command in it, my "ListenMac" macro was the last item in the tree. The content of the two macros is the same. Once I deleted my "ListenMac" from the tree the glitching disappeared.
Your thoughts?

 

Good to hear! Refresh rate of the 7730 ecm (8192 baud) is 10 times a second. I know my flags only update once a second on my 165 ecm at 8192 baud though.

 

Glad you got it working.
I found the reason it didn't run your macro.
In the editor, "ADX header" item there is a spot to select what macro to run.
Obviously it is set to do the first one in your list.
Selecting the macro you made in its place should have worked also.

If 10 works for the wait then it is ok, but I would bump it up to 20 or so and verify there is no slowdown in the frame rate.
Would just be better in case you ever use that file on another comuter that has slightly different timing on the port.

 

Thanks for coming back with a reason. That all makes sense now. I looked at the Header and it does see the "Mode 1 ALDL......" first. So by me deleting the one I created did not matter. It's the addition of "Listen for Silence" command to the Mode 1 macro that did it. I can leave it like that and change my "Timeout" from 10ms to 20ms. Thanks.

 

should make this info a sticky !!!

 

Do I make it a stick or a moderator? Obviously it needs to be cleaned up to eliminate the unwanted trial and error steps.

 

Moderator, Its a learning curve don't feel bad. I have never used that hardware and software good information.