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Hi, Got a bit of a problem here and looking for some insight. Car is a 1989 Iroc with an L98 Auto. I just did a MAF to SD conversion on it and I wanted to start with a clean version of the latest SAUJP7 bin, in anticipation of some future mods, but right now the car is bone stock apart from a flowmaster 3" exhaust. It starts and runs fine and no codes are set (apart from a random low fuel pump voltage error that usually only happens first start of the day then goes away, flaky relay maybe?) but the problem is it will not really go into closed loop, Ive seen it go closed loop for about 10 seconds, then it drops out and wont go back in again no matter how long i run it for or even when i rev it up and the o2 sensor shows very minimal crosscounts in the log. All testing is being done in park at idle because it's still pretty wintery up here. The strange part is I have tried it with SAUJP 6 and SAUJP 7 and both act the same way, but when i popped in a prom with an older SAUJP4 (i think) ans tune from another car, it immediately shows o2 crosscounts and quickly goes into closed loop. So were there some changes to some parts of o2 sensor cal in the later versions? did I miss something I was supposed to change in the initial setup? attached are the 2 logs i took. First is with the newer SAUJP and second is the old one that does go closed loop.
Weird! On v4 and v6 you have crosscounts when in CL, but it never really goes much more higher than 500mv. You peaked at 565mv. Cross counts are when O2 MV changes direction, not when it crosses 451mv in your case.
ADX is right out of the SAUJP v7 file i got off of this site, and the first bin is the same took it straight out of the zip, just made a few basic (vats, fan temp etc changes).
What I am seeing is both of your logs are behaving the same. The only difference is V4 gets more CL and O2 voltage goes lower but barely crosses 500mv. It is in and out of CL. Engine is closer to operating temperature. In V6, the O2 sensor voltage is flatter and barely any CL. However, engine was warming up
Picture is from V4 with O2 voltage and INT. V6 's O2 voltage is flatter than that.
This is not normal. May I suggest you try swapping the O2 sensor see what it does?
I had a chance to do a little more troubleshooting today, Found an error i made while repining for SD which was causing the low fuel pump error message, so fixed that and did another data log run with the same results still no closed loop operation., attached log is with SAUJPv7 again but I also tried a stock AUJP bin with no real difference. If i rev up to 1500rpm and hold it I can get the o2 crosscounts moving but still no joy, So what exactly is preventing it from going closed loop? Rbob do you think this is likely a hardware related issue? ie injectors, maybe fuel pump? I havent put a pressure gauge on it yet but i will try that next. In regards to the comment of the injectors being smaller than setup, In the case of the SAUJPV4 bin that will go closed loop that is true that bin was setup for a car with 32lb injectors, But this car is bone stock so I assume the 22lb value listed in the cal should be correct.
Last edited by MaxpowerTA; Feb 18, 2023 at 02:05 PM.
Reason: attachment
@MaxpowerTA The S_AUJP v7 is set at 22.08lbs/hr out of the box from what I can see on the one downloaded with the .zip.
Bone stock 350cid L98 had 22, yes
Would you be able to back probe the O2 sensor voltage and see if what the ecm is reporting is actually what the O2 sensor is sending? Not sure if it can be done. I've never done it, but if I'd have the same problem that's where I would start. Or get an inexpensive basic O2 sensor and swap it. That's where I would start. If it clears ok, then the problem is somewhere else and you're not to deep out of pocket.
Cheers
Last edited by SbFormula; Feb 28, 2023 at 06:05 AM.
ADX is right out of the SAUJP v7 file i got off of this site, and the first bin is the same took it straight out of the zip, just made a few basic (vats, fan temp etc changes).
While this thread titled "SAUJP7 won't go into closed loop", this is not a SAUJP7 problem. There are hundreds of users. It is likely calibration related. You generally can't use the bin (calibration) "right out of the zip" even if a stock engine. It will run, but not well. That's why there's detailed documentation on how to transfer a working calibration to SAUJP7.
Without a working bin and the non-working SAUJP7 bin, it's not possible to determine the problem. As sbFormula suggested, it would be helpful to post those bins.
Apologies, I wasn't meaning to imply it was an SAUJP7 specific issue I was just thrown by the fact that an older version bin would go closed loop and "out of the box" the new one would not. I have swapped in a new 3 wire heated O2 sensor and it now goes closed loop as expected. I have attached a new log file, I'm sure its just a calibration issue but what sort of blm/int should I expect with a cold engine? this one started out in the 95ish range and was running pretty rough, once the engine got to around 170 degrees it settled out at around the 120's would that be considered "normal" operation for a cold engine?
You just need to unzip it, there is an .xdl file inside. This site doesnt allow me to upload .xdl files unless they are zipped.
When I hit the file it downloads to my pc and it is not compressed. It is a singular .rar file. TunerPro does not read that format.
I don't use WinRAR archiver Sorry
Thanks
All right all right, I just installed WinRAR
Last edited by SbFormula; Feb 28, 2023 at 03:30 PM.
I have attached a new log file, I'm sure its just a calibration issue but what sort of blm/int should I expect with a cold engine? this one started out in the 95ish range and was running pretty rough, once the engine got to around 170 degrees it settled out at around the 120's would that be considered "normal" operation for a cold engine?
If I may, nothing is normal about your XDL!
Just by glancing over your XDL there, it's obvious that it is pig rich. BLM learn did not come on until 4min into the run even if CL was activated 90s into the run (too early IMO). BLM learn probably has a higher CT threshold. So INT did its job but could not go lower. BLM was not updating. Once BLM started updating, it too maxed out with INT at around 122. So eventually the BLM/INT got the job done by pulling 28% of INJ PW in cell#1. AFR is set at 14.06:1 in CL... why?
Also, engine took about 15 min to reach operating temp and your MAT barely heat soaked. Did you leave the hood open? Did you remove the thermostat? Where is your MAT located?
In OL your eyes must have been burning it was so rich. Probably fouled your plugs.
Hard to determine what is going on without seeing the BIN and having engine set-up details.
Last edited by SbFormula; Feb 28, 2023 at 03:56 PM.
Yes it is pretty odd looking to me too, that's why I posted it. Attached is the bin I'm using, but as I said its pretty much straight out of the SAUJP 7 zip with some minor config changes. Engine is bone stock with all smog equipment intact, only mods are cat delete and 3" flowmaster exhaust and now the SD ECU conversion. MAT is in the stock location and I certainly would not remove the thermostat. My eyes were not burning in OL, in fact it was running much smoother in OL and as soon as it went CL it began to run quite rough until it warmed up and then smoothed out considerably. The 14:06 commanded is because Here in Canada we are now mandated by law to only have ethanol fuel available and stoich for E10 is approx 14:1 so thats what i set that parameter at.
Yes it is pretty odd looking to me too, that's why I posted it. Attached is the bin I'm using, but as I said its pretty much straight out of the SAUJP 7 zip with some minor config changes. Engine is bone stock with all smog equipment intact, only mods are cat delete and 3" flowmaster exhaust and now the SD ECU conversion. MAT is in the stock location and I certainly would not remove the thermostat.
Then why are you not using AUJP instead? I have attached it.
Originally Posted by MaxpowerTA
My eyes were not burning in OL, in fact it was running much smoother in OL and as soon as it went CL it began to run quite rough until it warmed up and then smoothed out considerably.
It's because it started in the 11s (commanded AFR) and quickly leaned out to 14.56:1 (which was probably real AFR around 11). Engine loved it. But when closed loop kicked in too early, INT pulled out a bunch of fuel and engine ran too lean. As it warmed-up, engine got better with a leaner mixture.
Originally Posted by MaxpowerTA
The 14:06 commanded is because Here in Canada we are now mandated by law to only have ethanol fuel available and stoich for E10 is approx 14:1 so thats what i set that parameter at.
I see. Pretty much useless if you start with a BIN that does not fit your engine.
I've bee doing some digging. If your engine is stock, I don't understand why it is so rich with S_AUJP. I looked at your BIN and you are not using the VE extended tables. The regular VE tables are identical to AUJP. The injector rate is at 22, the AFR is at 14.73 (yours is at 14.09 not significant enough to create very rich condition), engine volume is at 713 and MAT tables are the same.
Do you still have OEM injectors?
I would definitely use AUJP and not S_AUJP if your engine is stock. SA in S_AUJP is quite different. Also OL timers are different. There is actually lots of data that is different than AUJP.
Last edited by SbFormula; Feb 28, 2023 at 06:13 PM.
Then why are you not using AUJP instead? I have attached it.
It's because it started in the 11s (commanded AFR) and quickly leaned out to 14.56:1 (which was probably real AFR around 11). Engine loved it. But when closed loop kicked in too early, INT pulled out a bunch of fuel and engine ran too lean. As it warmed-up, engine got better with a leaner mixture.
I see. Pretty much useless if you start with a BIN that does not fit your engine.
Because SAUJP is simply an enhanced feature rich version of vanilla AUJP why wouldn't I use it is a better question? I have used it on several TPI engines in the past and one Pontiac 455 and with proper calibration have never had any issues as it is very versatile. As for starting with a bin that doesn't fit my engine.... how do you figure? my engine is an 89 L98, SAUJP is based on a bin for a L98 and there for the calibration should be specked for a stock 5.7l TPI engine. Yes the SA tables are somewhat more aggressive but so what? It could hardly be the cause of what is happening here.
Because SAUJP is simply an enhanced feature rich version of vanilla AUJP why wouldn't I use it is a better question? and as for starting with a bin that doesn't fit my engine.... how do you figure? my engine is an 89 L98, SAUJP is based on a bin for a L98 and there for the calibration should be specked for a stock 5.7l TPI engine. Yes the SA tables are somewhat more aggressive but so what? It could hardly be the cause of what is happening here.
