white91formula

iTrader: (4)

the way my headlights used to work was that when i turned on my parking lights and they stayed down until i actually turned on the headlights, but if i went right back to parking lights they would stay up but off.

now every time i just turn on the parking lights they pop up and stay up even though the lights arent on... and when i shut the car off i can hear the motors for the lights spinning a few seconds after the car is off and the lights are down

this just started recently and the wiring hasnt been touched, although i did power wash the engine bay and it seems to be happening since i did that, wtf could i have done ?

q8irock

the popping up gear is broken just reblace it with new one that is the broblem

Klortho

The headlight motors have three little bushings in them which eventually disntegrate or the main gear is busted. TDS sells the parts to fix both.

If you can grab the light and pull it up with them turned off, the bushings are probably gone. I put the bushing kits in the headlights on my '87 and they work like a charm now.

white91formula

iTrader: (4)

they still work fine and pop up and go down fine... it was after the control module got wet that they started doing this, c ould that be the reason...


they arent getting stuck up or down

wendscot

I was hoping someone else was having this problem as well. I have a 91 TA and just the toher day it started doing the same thing. I put new motor on the left light few months ago (it didn't work at all) and both lights worked fine. Just this past Monday, my lights started popping up, but not on, when I turn only my parking lights on. I figured it was the switch so I went and bought a new....that wasn't it. You say yours started after u cleaned your engine, I didn't do anything to mine and had no ran (since Hurricane Katrina last week...in which my car was in garage) It just started happening out of the blue.

Let me know if you fix yours and how, and I will do the same if I fix mine.

Rob91GTA

I am having the same problem as white91formula described in the first post! When I turn only my parking lights on, the headlights pop up and they never used to. I'd really like to know what is causing that to happen.

But it seems like I have another problem as well. My drivers side light is having problems popping up. Sometimes I have to help it up. And when it is up, sometimes when I hit a bump it will fall down. Is that a gear problem?

Does it need a rebuild?

Thanks!

white91formula

iTrader: (4)

to the top


all the people that have headlight problems and no one knows the answer ? common i know someone knows thats the issue here

wendscot

I agree, I would love to know what is going on. Right now my car is at the tranny shop and will be there till I pay for the tranny. So I have not been able to try to figure it out.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

They already answered your question. Replace the OEM bushings in the headlight actuators with the Delrin ones in my kit and your problem will be solved. I've had feedback from several customers that repairing their headlight actuators using my kit also solved their problem with the headlights popping up when they turn on the parking light switch.

Lon Salgren
Top-Down Solutions

white91formula

iTrader: (4)

edit: just ordered a kit

wendscot

o, i thought thast would only fix it if they were not coming up at all. Let me know how it works WhiteFormula.....please

Vader

The other possibility is a failing light switch on the dash.

wendscot

I already replaced the light switch and that did not fix the problem.

white91formula

iTrader: (4)

i got a 4th gen dash and switch, and it worked fine with those, and then it started doing this one day... so i doubt its the switch

HalfInchWrench

Could someone explain how replacing the bushings would cause the headlights to only come up when needed instead of all the time?

To me it seems if the bushings are shot, the lights wouldn't come up at all or stay up all the time ect. If I were to guess, it would appear to be an electrical problem.

In my 91, the lights are up and down every few minutes in bright sun. Turning on the parking lights has no effect. Thinking about disabling the sensor and putting in a resistor to make it think it's bright all the time and then manually turning on the lights.

Could someone make sense of this bizarre behavior?

white91formula

iTrader: (4)

your car is different, its canadian

that being said you have day time running lights, so they are controlled different

Vader

Did Canadian cars have DRL in '91?

Trickster

According to the manuals I have and the local dealerships they did. BTW, the US also had them.

HalfInchWrench

I had no idea DRL's were available on 3rd gens till I bought the 91.

Any one know the resistor value to install to disable this? If this keeps going on, I will need new headlight motors. Perhaps there is a better sensor I can pull from a newer car from the scrap yard that works better.

I know there were folks who disabled the 4th gen DRL cars this way. I don't mind having to manually turn on the lights when I NEED them. This lights on lights off thing is crazy.

wendscot

I never noticed mine having DRL......how do I check?

HalfInchWrench

Should be a round black sensor on the top of the dash pad just next to the right side of the passenger side defog vent a bit smaller than a penny. Headlights should also pop up/come on.

I am not really sure if this is DRL's cause they would be on all the time. I think it's more of an automatic headlight feature to come on only when dark enough. At least that is the way I think it should work.

white91formula

iTrader: (4)

ok guys heres the deal, lon got me my parts very fast and i got it installed, and he was right, it fixed the problem that i was having. here are some pics of the installation







except i broke off 2 of the case bolts on the pass side motor, lon do you know what the thread size is on that ? when i get back to school i will take it apart again and bring it into work (machine shop) and drill it out and retap it

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

The threads are an 8-32. I'm curious why you removed the motor on the right side actuator. It only needs to be removed on the left side motor to remove the gear. The gear on the right-side comes right out once you remove the 3 side-cover screws. The motor doesn't need to be removed. It is a common misconception that the left and right hand headlight actuators are disassembled the same. See how much easier it would have been if you'd followed the instructions? I'm glad the kit solved your problem.

Lon Salgren
Top-Down Solutions

wendscot

ok cool, LON once I get my car back from the tranny shop (still owe $1500) I will get this kit as well and fix my problem.

thanks white91formula

white91formula

iTrader: (4)

i didnt remove the motoro n the RH side... just the side cover and that is where 2 of the screws broke off..., 2 screws also broke removing the motor from the LH side, i did read the directions and followed it exactly as they where

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Got it. It is easier to just drill the hole through and put a longer screw with a nut on the backside. I supply two 8-32 x 1/2", 18-8 SS Hex Washer-Head slotted machine screws and zinc-plated nuts. Any 8-32 screw (available at any hardware store) would work though. Did you spray them with KROIL or equivalent and let the pentrating oil seep into the threads? You should also smack the head of the screws with a hammer and punch to try and break free any corrosion. Remember to grind flush any protruding portion of the old screw before you center punch and drill it.

Good luck,

Lon

white91formula

iTrader: (4)

yea i sprayed it and let it sit forlik 10 minutes, i guess that they just wernt meant to be... i had to use the ohter 2 screws on the motor on the LH side, those broke also.

as far as getting new screws and redrilling the holes, that isnt a problem as i work in a machine shop, i just have to wait until tues when i go back to work, not a big deal

again thinks for hte kit, it helped and i have one less thing off the list to get done

wendscot

I got my kit this week and uinstalled it today. Took about 45 minutes total install time and fixed my light problem. Amazing that this kit not only fixes the problem with your headlights popping up, but also the problem of them coming up with just park lights on.

Thanks, Lon

EFF26

Explain to me how replacing the PLASTIC bushing will solve the motors popping up when you turn on the parking lights. Because when you turn on your parking lights the motors should not even turn on. I know this because i read this out of the GM service manual. So why does this happen i don't know. Yes I would like to know because mine do the same thing. So if any one really knows and are not trying to sell product. please let me know.

wendscot

I asked the same thing, because it di not make sense to me either. That is why I waited for Whiteforumla to do his. I did mine this past weekend, and it works.....you have three people total in here....not associated with TDS telling you that it works. So maybe you will just have to trust those three people. I myself had reservations, but hey it was only $20 so I said what the heck and got it...and as I said it worked.

I do not know what else to tell you, other than the fact that I personally never dealt with TDS before this...so I am not trying to sell a product, all I know is that it fixed my problem and I am happy now.

As for why the lights come up....my guess is there is a reason why the bushings are plastic....so they do not carry any eletrical current. I was thinking htat if the bushings were completely gone to dust, then the light has metal to metal and therefore the current makes it way thorugh. But once I took it apart even the end of the motor was touching a plastic wheel gear....so that through my theory out. TDS did not even know it would fix this problem, until someone bought it and told him it did.

do what you want, but a week ago I was driving with my lights on all the time, instead of just park/fog lights. And now today I can drive with just park/fog without embarrasing myself

gerrym

Guys... been following this thread and its helped me get my motors working again. I just purchased my '89 GTA convertible a few weeks ago, and am still getting familiar with it.

So on these headlights, with the key off, the lights are supposed to open AND close as you cycle the headlight switch ?

And if you turn the headlight switch off with the motor running, the lights turn off but the doors stay open ?

And.. ( just one more ) why does the intermediate position on the headlight switch just pop up the doors and not turn on the lights.

Or is something fubar here ?

( and does GM still sell new headlight switches ? )

Thanks guys, this is a tremendous resource here!!

Gerry-

wendscot

glad we can help Gerry

So on these headlights, with the key off, the lights are supposed to open AND close as you cycle the headlight switch ?

Answer: Yes they should go up and down whether the key is off or not



And if you turn the headlight switch off with the motor running, the lights turn off but the doors stay open ?

Answer: No matter if engine is running or not, the headlights should go down if you turn the headlight switch off

And.. ( just one more ) why does the intermediate position on the headlight switch just pop up the doors and not turn on the lights.



Answer: This sounds like the problem I was having, when you turn only your parking lights on (intermediate) then the lights pop up....no they are not suppose to do that.


Solution to all problems above. By the Headlight repair kit from TDS and follow the instruction, it will fix all of the top three problems.


and does GM still sell new headlight switches ?


You should be able to go to local parts store (Advance Auto, Oreily's....etc.) and get the headlight switch. Usually costs $15 to $20 or heck you may be able to order that from TDS as well.


As for this site being good information. I cam eon here one day just browsing and found my car I have now for sale. So I bought it from a guy off this site. Everything I have done to my car since then (other than transmission) I have bought the parts off this site as well. So I believe the info on here is awesome myself.

Hope this helped you out.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Yes I also stock the headlight switch.



Lon Salgren

gerrym

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. I sort of thought something was fishy even after I rebuilt the headlight motors. At least now the OPEN!! They just don't always close the same. I'm thinking it is the switch, which I just ordered from TDS. I can see these cars have about 10 times as many peculiarities as my '96 Impala SS... so I guess I need to take some memory pills or something. The brain just doesn't retain what it used to.

Thanks again guys, I've found a new home. ( and money pit ).

iansane

iTrader: (1)

So, to necro this thread, does anyone actually know how the bushings going bad causes the motors to come up with parking lights on? My bird is doing this so I guess I'll have to order Lon's kit. I can hear the motor's running for a bit after I shut them down so I guess it's due.