BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

Some guy is going to sell me a 1989 trans am. It in pretty good shape. I went to take a look at it and when I opened the door, the alarm came on and wouldn't turn off. The guy said that had never happened before. I disconnected the wire to the horn of the alarm to shut it up

I tried to start the car and nothing happened. It didn't even crank, I then noticed the red security light was blinking. After some time scratching heads and destroying our backs trying to get under the dash, we made no progress.

I read about doing the resistor bypass but his car has a normal key, not the kind with chip thing on the top. Just a normal silver key. He said that was the key he got it with. He was telling me he drove the car the day before and had no problem. I also noticed some small black box under the steering wheel with a red blinking light and wires connected to it. I figured that had to do with vats so i took it off but nothing happened so I put it back on.

Has anyone had this problem before and can you tell me how to do the resistor bypass. I've read around and most say to check the resistance on the key with the chip, which this car doesn't have. I'm also thinking about buying the bypass module. Did that work for anyone?

If you have some advise just tell me, I like this car and just want to get it running again before I buy it

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

The owner told me he was going to "cut the 12v to the master switch". Would that do anything at all

camaronewbie

If it has a plain key, then the VATS has already been bypassed. The box with blinking light must be an aftermarket thing, probably part of the alarm - none of these cars came with factory alarm.

There is nothing that can be done except giving the VATS module the resistor it's looking for. VATS not only disrupts the starter circuit, but also cuts out the fuel injection - the VATS module sends a pulse wave to the ECM and without that wave, the ECM will not power the injectors.

Look under the driver dash for the VATS wires, and see if there hasn't already been a resistor put in - maybe it fell out is is not making a good connection. Read the following:

https://www.thirdgen.org/VATS
https://www.thirdgen.org/vats_passkey_system

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I don't know which are the VATS wires. I removed the cover under the dash to expose the wires but I don't know how they look.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I also Forgot to mention that the Positive Battery terminal was hot. It burned my thumb when I touched it. What could cause it to heat up

camaronewbie

Only thing that makes a battery hot is shorting out - you sure you have the pos on pos and neg on neg?

The articles I linked describe the VATS wires - read them again.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I didn't check if they battery was on correctly. The terminals were also corroded.

I Don't have the car yet so I can't check the wires yet. I'm still debating about buying it, Its 1200, new tires, body has no major dents only a small dent on the hood, and the paint isn't too pretty. The owner says He'll tow it to me If he can't get it to turn on

camaronewbie

If it were me, I'd tell him I'd buy it ONLY if HE got the electrical issue corrected where the car would start and run. I'd NEVER buy a car that I couldn't hear run - especially for that much. If he doesn't want to fix it, then offer him $400 as is.

He'll never sell it for more than $400 if no one can even hear the motor.

I've bought a total of 4 3rd gen cars in the last 6 years, and they all would start and run with no major engine issues, and the most I ever paid for one was $800.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I lowered the car to $1000. We are going to make the deal tomorrow. Hopefully I can get it to work and it runs ok.

The car has 101k miles, new tires, new exhaust and the dash is in pretty good shape so is the interior. I'll post some pics when he drops it off

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I took some pics of the wires, the vats wire diagram is a bit confusing.

The green 30A fuse on wire I'm holding was busted so I replaced it, I dont know what its for

camaronewbie

OK - the first pic, purple and white wires - that should be VATS - it's unplugged and should be replugged.

2nd pic, the 30 amp fuse - not factory - probably has to do with that aftermarket alarm.

3rd pic I'm assuming is the aftermarket alarm because it's not factory either.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I couldnt find anything that connected to the purple and white wires. The battery is dead. I think its because of the alarm, I just unplugged the horn so its probably still on , I just cant hear it.

Also the Positive battery terminal is corroded. I took it off and the wire was almost fused because of all the corrosion. I'm going to buy new terminals and clean the positive cable. I also don't really know which is the Positive cable since both terminals are black but one has 2 red wires attached to it. The one without the red wires is connected to the alternator, the one with the red wires runs all to the left side (facing engine/passenger side) of the engine under the spark plugs. The cable with the red wires was on the Positive side of the battery when I got the car

camaronewbie

The one that's connected to the alternator - it's not actually connected to any electrical connector on the alt is it? It should just be connected to the bolt that holds the alt to the engine - THAT is the ground or NEG cable.

The ones that run under pass side, that is pos.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

You're right, I didn't look at it correctly. Its on the bolt near the alternator

I took the battery to charge and bought new terminals. The old positive Terminal was very corroded, The cable was too. I sprayed some terminal cleaner on the cable. I think that's why the terminal was hot in the first place. Too much corrosion

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

Thats the pic of the red light that won't stop blinking. I charged the battery and put new terminals but still no crank. I think I'm going to buy the bypass module from ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...d=220572989482

I think the alarm is still on. Something is beeping inside the car, I'm guessing thats the alarm still going on without the horn or maybe VATS

89fbirdformula

since ya pm'd me asking for help...heres my input...

since you cut the siren for the alarm, and did not deactivate it...my guess is the alarm itself is cutting power to the starter activation circuit...

also, since you say your key has no vats chip, its safe to say the vats was probably bypassed{very common with junk aftmkt alarms}so that the alarm would function..

have someone crank the key over, while you, or someone else has a digital multi meter on the starter pole{thick purple wire if memory serves correct} this will be the 12volt signal sent to the solenoid to crank the starter over, verify that this is or ISNT getting 12+ volts during CRANKING.

i did a quick search and couldnt find the wiring diagram for the ignition switch, but you also need to check and verify that the ignition switch is sending the required 12+ volts to the starter activation wire.

if you are NOT getting 12 volts at the IGN switch, it could be faulty, or the alarm itself may be the issue there..

if you ARE getting 12+volts at the ign switch, the alarm isnt allowing the current to pass{alarms antitheft} you need to bypass the alarm, and remove it.

you could also try the following which will serve to answer a few questions..

Jump the starter solenoid to the battery and see if it cranks over, you can also leave the ignition turned on, and jump the starter to see if it will fireup and run..this will tell you if vats/ignition power has or hasnt been bypassed.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I'd have to jack the car up to test the starter wouldn't I. The car is almost touching some shelves in the garage, I'd have to push the car out of the garage a bit to be able to jack it up.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, since I also got a PM, here's what I think:

Pulling the power fuse for the alarm SHOULD kill the starter disable. If not, you need to find the disable relay and bypass that. The power wire to the alarm should be either a red wire or a black wire with a red stripe, IIRC. The wiring may be listed on the case of the alarm ECU, probably on the back, molded into the case. The relay may be well hidden (I know one of mine is and the other isn't), so you may have to hunt for it. You're looking for either a heavy green or a heavy yellow wire coming out of a relay. If you find a relay with both, green in and yellow out, that's the factory one and you need to keep looking.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I Don't know how the starter disable relay looks like. The car is at my sisters house so I haven't looked at it properly. While at her house I searched to find where it was located and some threads said it was on the drivers side kick panel. I took the kick panel and found some silver thin box with wires. I don't remember the color of the wires but it had about 4 and there was one wire under the box going from the left to the right

Here's a crappy drawing of what It looks like. It might not be 100% accurate since It's been several days since I saw it

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

That silver box is the door lock relay assembly. You're looking for a black box with 4 wires in the bottom, about an inch square and about maybe 1 1/2" tall.. May be behind the fuse panel, I think. My book is for a 92, so I'm not sure where yours would be.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I found the starter relay and jumped the large yellow wire and green wire with white stripe together. Nothing happened. The red security light is still blinking and the brake and turn signal lights are blinking too. Could the cheap after market alarm cause a no crank? My engine is Carb so the starter relay bypass should've worked. I've read about the neutral safety switch problems,could that be it?

I can't jump the starter to see if that works since I don't have my Jack with me. Also,Where is the vats fuse and can that be my problem

Elthesh

This is NOT a VATS issue. You have an aftermarket alarm, and apparantly, you do NOT have the key fob to turn it on and off. I can't tell you how to disable the alarm as I do not know how, but messing with your VATS system is not going to get your car going. You HAVE to either get the key fob controller or disable/remove the alarm system. That red light on the cluster? It is NOT a factory security light either, it was drilled in and installed by whoever installed the alarm.

I had this issue on a 79 Trans Am when I went to change my battery. I found that the previous owner had an alarm installed but I didn't get any key fob when I bought the car. The alarm went crazy until I called an alarm guy to come over and disable it at the auto parts store I was stuck at. He did something under the dash, twisted wires or something and the alarm never gave me an issue again.

So, just to make sure you know, this is NOT a VATS issue, so stop even thinking about VATS, bypass modules and all that. The aftermarket alarm is stopping you from starting the car. Get it disabled, battery charged, problem solved. Either tow the car to an alarm installer or pay an installer to come to the car to disable it.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I just got it to crank,but the battery is basically dead. The car came with a cheap looking car alarm remote,the PO and I tried using it but nothing Would happen. I just pressed a button and bam! The car stopped beeping and the lights stopped blinking and it cranked.the battery is too low and the Guy at the auto parts storesaid its not holding a charge so I have to buy a new one

Elthesh

Word of advice, pop that remote open and put a new battery in it. It's likely a button battery, 2025 or something similar. You could look up the remote on whatever site makes the alarm and see what it takes so you can have the battery ready. You also may want to look into getting a duplicate remote from the alarm manufacturer... If that one dies or gets lost, you saw what kind of hell you can have getting the car running without it.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

There was a new one in the car its an A23 battery. I will try to get another remote or a new car alarm, this one sucks. The remote even looks like crap,its see through green

Elthesh

Here's a little video of that A23 battery you have. It's actually a bunch of 1.5v button cell batteries wrapped up.

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-...2-volt-battery

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

I got a new battery and it wouldn't start. I'm going to change the plugs,wires,cap and rotor. I didn't check for spark since I didn't have my tools, but I will check when I buy the parts. Also there's a strong gas smell, I think its coming from the Carb. This is my first Carb engine so Idk

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

Thanks to everyone who helped with my problem. The whole time it was the piece of S&#* after market alarm. When the PO tried using the cheap car alarm remote it wasn't working. So I ruled the alarm out. Apparently some alarms come with ignition/starter kill, which I didn't know.

When I took the car home, I started looking for blown fuses, that's when I found the green fuse connected to the two wires. From looking at some other alarms, the fuse seems to be for the alarm. I replaced the fuse about a week ago but didn't try the alarm remote until today, that's when it cranked. Like I mentioned in the beginning of the thread, the positive battery terminal was hot. I'm not sure if that's why the fuse was blown but I cleaned the wire and changed the terminal and it doesn't heat up anymore. I think the alarm goes off when the battery is reconnected because it was doing that earlier but would go off with the remote.

Also the box with the red light seems to be a shock sensor(since it says shock sensor). The PO said he tried setting off the alarm so I'm guessing it doesn't work

Elthesh

If and when you have that alarm replaced... Take it to a GOOD shop, not some cheap Best Buy installer, and preferably not some place with a bunch of untrained kids working. First, you want them to COMPLETELY remove the entire original alarm. Then you want them to repair the likely hackjob done to wiring and such. Finally, have them install the new alarm. Personally, I recommend Clifford or Viper.

I had the above done to my 91 a few years back. The original Viper finally started to die, so I took it to a good local shop that has been around since the 70's and had the guy remove the entire alarm first. Then he fixed things up and installed the new Clifford alarm I bought.

BillyTheGoat

iTrader: (2)

About how much does a viper alarm cost with installation. I don't trust this alarm