Instead of cutting wires, shouldn't you just be able to unplug the connector under the column and plug the correct resistor in?

 

If you can be sure it will stay in place; that is why most solder it in
Resistors only have bare wires , not a matching connector

 

Absolutely. Just slide the leads in from the backside & run a loop of electrical tape or a zip tie around it to the wires.

 

Well now wait...how can the VATS module sense the resistor if it's in parallel with the circuit rather than in series? Is it because even if the key is wrong, it still finds the correct resistance within the resistor? And wouldn't it add the resistance of the key to that of the resistor?

I originally meant what if you unplug the side of the connector shown in the picture and stick the resistor into the other half of the connector. I believe the other side of the connector that I'm talking about has black/purple wires...

 

I don't know who took that pic, but it does look like it is still plugged in. I would unplug it, but still insert the resistor the same way. Easier to secure the resistor to the plug that way.

Left plugged in, it just may still read the same way to the Module. Try it & see. Certainly can't hurt. Either it works or doesn't. If not? Unplug it.

 

Okay. I'm just trying to get an understanding on the VATS. They way I understood it, the white wires with the orange sheath went to the ignition cylinder, where the resistance of the key was picked up, and the wires running out of other part of the connector ran to the module, meaning that the resistor would need to go in the other part of the connector (that runs to the module) with the white/orange wires disconnected so the key's resistor was completely out of the equation. I'll do some experimenting this week when I have some time.



I decided to draw up my understanding of how the system worked. I figured that you'd have to put the resistor in the 2nd half of the connector while unplugged from the 1st half of the connector so the module would not see the key's resistor and only see the resistor inserted into the circuit. This way the key is only used to turn the ign. cylinder and the module will still see the correct resistance because of the inserted resistor.

 

Ive Heard The Actual VATS Module Behind The Dashboard Next To The Heater Core Could Go Out, If Your Module Is Failing Using That Resistor Trick Will Do You No Good. Ive Been All Over The VATS Trying To Get My Friends Firebird To Start And In The End I Found Out That ONE Fuel Injector Was Shot! That Was Nuts, New Injector, Fired Right Up. Still Using The Original VATS System

 

What's withe capitalizing every word? I saw some of your posts in a thread earlier. I tried to ignore it, but it gave me a headache trying to read your posts. I ignored it earlier & here we go again......

 

Sorry Sir, Its A Habit That I Shake For No One. BeTtEr ThAn TyPiNg LiKe ThIs!! Its A Habit. Thanks For Your 2 Cents Buddy

 

Hope you don't land a job that requires typing. "Sorry Sir, Its A Habit That I Shake For No One." That would end your job pretty quickly.

I was being nice in my Post. Some others here on TGO will not be so nice in pointing out your odd choice in typing style.

Sorry, but I'm not gonna get a headache every time I see your odd typing in Posts. Maybe others will be able to read it & help you, but I doubt the majority will ignore it so much.

 

The Majority Really Cant Stand It, But I Thats How I Find The Kids If You Know What I Mean. I Hope To God Any Job I Get Dont Make Me Type, Ill Stick To Welding. And They Say Welders Are The Weirdest People (:

Good Luck On Your VATS Situation Mr. Froman!

 

...thanks guys. I'm pretty sure my module is fine. I'm mostly just asking these questions out of curiosity and to help anyone else on the subject because I did have problems with my key in the past.

 

The way I did it was to unplug the connector and cut the orange wire leaving some wire attached to the connector on that end. That way you can remove it from the car and solder the resistor between the wires on a workbench rather than trying to do it under the dash. Then you just plug it in and it works. Can also be unplugged for theft control if desired

 

Yeah I've heard of others doing that with good results, but would my "drawing" work as well?

 

Yeah. Only difference between your car & my photograph, is which side of the same connector the resistor is put in to. My way lays it against the wires & provides a good way to support the resistor & hold it in place. How are you going to make the resistor stay in place?

 

If you put your resistor on just 1 wire, no way that would work. The circuit path would still be open.

Even if you cut both wires and connected them to the resistor....That is the hard way to put a resistor in the circuit.

 

Oh well, that's how I decide to do it a couple of years ago. It is between the two wires so it works so far. What's hard about that way?

 

Henry, this is the way I understood your description. Sorry for the crude drawings but it is the only way I can accurately describe my thought process.

 

You said you cut the orange wire (nothing about cutting the other wire too), then spliced both ends of the resistor, to the 2 orange ends, not connecting the orange & the other wire together, because you said nothing about cutting the other wire.

 

So wouldn't that just add to the resistance of the key?

 

No, because once you unplug it, it will no longer ever see the key.

I'm confused.....Why are we still talking about this & questions being asked?

1. Determine correct resistor
2. Buy resistor
3. Unplug
4. Insert resistor
5. Enjoy

 

Yes, that's exactly how I meant it. I wasn't trying to drag this thread into the ground through repetition, only tossing in my two cents. The only orange wire that exists in this area is not really an orange wire, but an orange sheath with two white wires inside. Connecting those two via resistor and then plugging it in was the deal. Hence the removable by unplugging for theft control comment. Admittedly not that easy to access for that purpose, but a thought anyway. And hey, the drawing may be crude, but effective

 

stephen i am having no luck with my 92 bird can you answer some guestions

 

I'm no expert on the subject, but ask away!

 

Id say make absolutly sure that the VATS is the problem. Like I said, my friends 90 Firebird had one bad fuel injector and the whole time he was trying to fix something was was working just fine. Pull out your injectors and hook them to the fuel rail and crank the engine, see if they spray. On the V6s I know for sure that if one injector fails the other two on the same line will not work, You'll only have 3 working injectors, 2 non working and a failed injector.
People trying to solve their VATS issues should consider looking into the injection system cus 3 injectors will not fire an engine.

 

o.k. theres my thing my 92 bird ran good but streering wheel was bad and i have a 91 bird for parts, so i swapped coulms and then it all happened. my car will not start. i was told to get a key made for my car so i took both keys and thay made a new one 25 dollars later. so i was told to bypass the key so my friend made a good resister for me and still nothing. and i took the starter off,it works good, the next thing i am going to try is making a jumper wire for the starter relay, i think i know how to do it.i just don,t see how this can suddly happen. so any thing will help i have read alot of other problems but not found a good answer.

 

The 91 chip in the key should have worked. Or if you didn't have 92 key, the 91 chip in the new 92 key would do the same thing.

You say you tried the resistor bypass, but did you get the correct resistor value? If not, then it will never work. Is it possible your friend used the 92 key value instead of the 91 key value, by mistake?

When you say "i took the starter off,it works good, the next thing i am going to try is making a jumper wire for the starter relay, i think i know how to do it" I assume you mean you were just testing the starter itself to make sure the starter was good? What do you mean about the jumper wire? To jump start it by bypassing the ignition? Will the car start if you do it that way?

 

Sorry, I've gotten a little confused about exactly everything you switched. When you swapped the 91 column into the 92, you needed a key to fit the lock on the 91 column with the same resistance your old key had. Swapping columns doesn't effect any change in the vats system set up at all. And if you did the bypass, the resistance would be gotten from your original 92 key right? There is no Vats stuff in the column, only the wiring for the key to match up with the module and the connector at the bottom. Correct?

 

the lock smith used a device that read the two keys and made a new one with the new one my friend that builds computers made and ometered it for me. the other thing is making a wire for the starter enable relay

 

yes i agree with you but everybody told me my vats is the cause of it. i don,t know where to start, i sure the h*** hope it,s not the case

 

I would go have the keys checked again & make sure the new keys chip matches the old/original keys chip.

Mistakes happen & possibly they ohmed the wrong key, then put in a chip to match the steering columns old key & not to match the original key.

 

my resistance #11 9.530 my friend made a 9.250 so yes it is the rigth one i did stop by the lock smith and double checked it, is o.k. too..

 

Dunno where he came up with 9.53 as the value. Correct value for #11 is 4.75. So the correct range is 4.56-496.

If he measured correctly, then it is #14. Correct value is 9.53, so the correct range is 9.149-9.931.

 

i am wrong it is the #14 9.530 my friend let me borrow his ohmed the bypass and the ignit.both read around 9.530 so i don,t think it is the vats do you have any suggestions what to look for i am all ears

 

If the Module itself is shot, the bypass won't work. It only serves to trick a Module that the correct key is in.

But if you had the correct key made, you don't need the Bypass. If you are running the Bypass AND the wires are plugged into the cylinder wires, both could be throwing the value out of range, since it is already on the low side of the allowed range.

 

well if it is bad can i take the one out of my other bird and put it in this one and while we are on this where the h*** is the vats in the dash but where.

 

You could swap the Module, but you'll hafta swap the key chip too or do the Bypass, but not both.

The Module is DEEP inside the dash, just slightly right of the center. Basically have to take the dash out to get to it. If you to that much trouble? Just rewire the sucker & eliminate VATS, unless you really think you need it.

Boy.....Now I have ANOTHER reason I have a non-VATS 3rd gen!

 

you know any body that knows howto do that and explain it to a dummiy like me i would forever be in your debt

 

Have you done the tests we outlined in your other thread to determine if starter circuit is correct

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...ml#post4768124
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...769-post4.html

If you don't have a complete circuit from Ign switch to starter then no amount of playing around with resistors or bypass modules is going to change anything

 

i did check the p/n safety switch i tryed to crank in park and in neutral nothing i took the starter off but didn,t try to crank with wire to starter it rained today. i think i am going to but a new battery too.

 

What about power out of the Ign switch and bypassing both the P/N switch and enable relay ?

 

no i didn,t it rained all day are you talking about the ign. switch or the ign.lock cycler i did check the lock cycler how do you check the enable relay and the p/n switch

 

Ign switch were the power for Ign and starter comes from
The only wires that run to the lock are for the VATS resistor

You said you replaced the switch
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...ml#post4769769


Disconnect them and jumper between the wires in the connector to bypass

 

i did replace the lock and the switch but not new ones came out of 91 bird, can you explain a little more how to and what to disconnect and jump i kinda don,t understain

 

I think he is talking about what I showed you in Post #3.

 

This is a typical starter circuit.
You must have power from one end to the other.Need to check for 12V when key in start position at every point on circuit

 

why not justburn a new prom and remove vats... thats what i did.... works like as charm

 

What does the PROM have anything to do with VATS on a 3rd, since there is a separate module to checks for the correct key?

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/vats_passkey_system

Once VATS module reads the correct resistance at key; it closes the starter relay and sends a fuel enable signal to the ECM
If you delete VATS on the prom, the ECM does not look for the fuel enable signal that it gets from the VATS module.
Can remove VATS module from car completely but also have to bypass starter enable relay that is operated by module

 

I had the module for vats removed from the prom and nothing else and it worked...