Hi,

The cruise control hasn't worked in my 82 Firebird since I had it. It has had a lot of previous owner before me so don't know what has been done to it. I taught about fixing it the other day and went to my Haynes manual to see how exactly it worked but there was very little information on it. I see from the wiring diagram there is a cruise control module. Anyone know where this is located or is it part of the ECU module. How is the speed sensed by the module. There is a vacuum unit near the driver side headlight but how does this keep the accelerator pressed. I can't see that the accelerator cable is connected to it. But then again this cable may have been replaced with a different type.

Any Help appreciated.

 

Maybe something here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...ntrol-wth.html

JamesC

 

Hi,
Thanks for the link. It will take me a few days to try and understand this. I did change the stalk on the steering column as the old one was badly faded and I remember that the old one had three wires and the new one had four. That didn't affect me as the cruise control wasn't working anyway.

Thanks.

 

I see you are on the other side of the pond, so I don't know if these guys will ship overseas. At this link you should be able to find the correct cruise control turn signal stalk. Price however is about US $100.

Take a look http://www.moderndaymuscle.com/82_92_camaro

They also have a Pontiac page for the third gens.

If the system does not work, there a are quire a few items that can be bad.

First question, does you speedometer work? What is the state of all the vacuum lines to the cruise control transducer, including the brake switch?. If any of them leaks the transducer will not engage as loss of vacuum indicates that the brakes are being applied. Is the speedo cable from the vacuum servo motor correctly connected at both ends?

Dave

Edit: Here are the pages from the 82 Camaro Factory Assembly manual. Your car should be assembled in the same manner. In the title block the RPO codes are given by &xxxx. &LC1 is the 2.8L V6 and &FA00 applies to all models and engine types.

 

Thanks for your reply and the sheets. I bought one on ebay yesterday. It is a 3 wire lever. I really hope that there is only one type of three wire cruise control lever for the early GM cars or else I have waisted money. I assume there are only two types, a 4 wire and a 3 wire?

Some years ago I replaced the lever as it was really badly faded but I got a 4 wire one as I didn't know any better. I tought they were all the same. It is in the car now not connected to anything. The cruise control didn't work anyway so I left it there.

I have been studing the information you posted on previous threads. I printed them out and am going through them at the moment. On one diagram it refers to engine vacuum. where does the Transducer get the vacuum from on the engine.

I am going to check the transducer and vacuum unit next week to see if they are working and the hoses and ground points.

Thanks.

 

In the information I posted last night see the page titled HOSES. The vacuum port for the vacuum source is on the left rear of the intake manifold behind the TBI and to the right of the vacuum connection to the power brakes. I don't think I have any photos of that and my intake manifold and TBIs have been removed for some "spring cleaning"

Take the diagram out and trace the hoses on the car. It will be a bit easier to figure things out once you see the " lay of the land"

Dave

 

Finally got around to the Cruise problem yesterday, been snowed under with Home improvments the last few weeks plus the Turn signal/ Cruise lever I ordered went missing in the post for a week.

1) I have fitted a new 3 wire turn signal/ Cruise lever yesterday. That was not a nice job! I discovered then that there was no power to the lever. Found an unconnected connector under the dash, couldn't figure out where it went until after an hour I realized it plugs into the back of the fuse box.

2) I checked the brake pedal sitches and they work. I metered the "hold" wire to ground under dash and that read 34 ohms (29 - 36 ohms if okay). The mtered the hold terminal at the transducer and that read 6 ohms (4 - 7 ohms if okay).

3) I checked the Vacuum Servo and that looks to be fine.

4) Now onto the "nasty bits". The hose from the transducer to the engine vacuum point has been cut beside the wiper motor and a screw wedged into it. I don't know why this was done but it is a bad sign. The only place I can find for it to go is a connection point beside the Distributor. I will send on a picture tomorrow.

Is there anyway to check if the resume solinoid is working. I suppose I could connect 12V to it and seem does it close.

Thanks.

 

Yes that sound correct. I took a look in the manual and found another page that I did not scan that shows the vacuum connection point. It is between the EGR valve and the distributor and towards the TB. Is the connection point plugged to prevent vacuum leaks? The fitting part number is 14017791. If you have air conditioning, RPO C60, there is a TEE tap inserted into the hose that connects to the fitting, the TEE side of the fitting goes to the AC and the straight part opposite the fitting goes to the cruise control. post your picture(s) so we can see what you have. i will scan the missing sheet if I need to.

Yes the the 12V will verify if the solenoid works electrically. However you will need vacuum and the car cursing down the road above 45 mph to engage the cruise and then see if the resume function will work after you tap the brake. It sounds like you are getting close to having it work again

Dave

 

Hi,
There has been a lot of butchering done to the car's electrics in the past. I am getting things back to normal slowly. On this fitting that I think is for the Cruise there is just one pipe coming out which has been blocked off with a plastic screw. No idea why this has been done. The air conditioning system has been removed (again I don't know why someone would do this). I will get a picture posted tomorrow of this connection point.

There is a harness with two wires going to the resume solinoid. I will put 12v across it and see if it works.

Thanks.

 

Here is the picture of the connector that I think the vacuum supply to the cruise control transducer goes. I can see anywhere else that it goes. There was a blocked off pipe shoved into it.


I also put 12V on the resume soliniod and that fires so hopefully the transducer is okay.

Gerry.

 

I only got to test the Cruise control today. Desided to try and fix all the other electrical problems I had while I was at it.

I brought the car up to 55 MPH moved the cruise switch to on and pressed the set switch all the way in and released it slowly (Switch at the top of the turn signal lever). I could feel that the cruise was engaging and took my foot off the accelorator but when I release the set switch the cruise disengaged. I tried it again but the same thing happened. Then I kept the set switch pressed all the time and the cruise worked, maintained the speed fine. but everytime I released the switch the cruise went off.

I tought that maybe the set switch should latch and provide a constant 12V to the Hold terminal on the transducer and that maybe my cruise control lever was faulty. I looked at the wiring diagram again and from what I can see, press the set switch half way then 12V is applied to the hold terminal, press the switch all they then 12V is applied to the engage terminal. Is this right? On the transducer is 12V applied to the Hold terminal and then the engage terminal while the set switch is pressed or is 12V supposed to be there all the time. This is confusing!

Thanks.

 

It sounds as if you are not operating the Engage/Coast pushbutton correctly. To Engage the system, move the Off/On/Resume slider switch to the on position then accelerate teh car to the desired speed if you aren't already there and the press the Engage/Coast push button halfway in not all the way in, and the release. The car should continue to operate at the speed on the speedometer when the Engage push button was depressed halfway. When the Engage/ Coast push button is pushed all the way in it effectively drops the transducer and resume solenoid out. You use this setting to reduce the set cruise speed. You let the car slow down by coasting, and then release the push button as the car approaches the new cruise speed. Note that if you release this button "too fast" the system may not reengage. I wonder if this is your problem. Give this method a try and see if you get the expected results. If not, you will have to test the ohmic value of the Dark Green wire from the connector at the base of the steering column to the transducer connector. YOu may need some help with this and a jumper wire. Make sure you have solid connections at all points. The ohm reading on your ohm meter should be 23.3 +/- 1 ohm. If not the wire is defective and must be replaced. If the wire is defective, the transducer and resume solenoid will not hold in when you release either the Engage or Coast push button. I assume that you understand that the Resume position on the slider switch will cause the cruise to "resume" the last set speed after you have depressed the brake pedal (slow down for the speed trap or something like that) or engaged the clutch pedal if your car has one.

To get a better idea of how the switch works, go to the link JamesC provided above and look at the second attachment to message #4. The diagram is at the lower left side of the page. You can also use the table at the lower right to verify correct switch operation. Note that GM in their infinite wisdom uses different terminology in different tables and diagrams to describe the same functions.

The the Engagement Switch Test procedure table for the Engage Button (Engage/Coast push button above) has the following definitions:
Released (Norm on the switch diagram to the left) is the normal position when you are not operting the push button (all the way out)
Fully Depressed (Trim on the switch diagram to the left) is the Coast position described above.
Partially Depressed (Engage on the switch diagram to the left) is the Engage position described above.

Confused yet

Hopefully this will get you enough information to see if they system will work or not. If the Dark Green wire is defective, I doubt that any GM supply house or dealer will have one in stock. You can ask your dealer but don't be surprised if they cannot find one. Then your choices are limited to the junk yard or to see if Painless Wiring or one of the other harness vendors can make one for you.

Dave

 

It said on the manual with the car to move the slider to on and then press the switch on the end of the stalk all the way in and release slowly. I printed out all the information on the link James c provided and went through them. I could see that pushing the switch all the way cut power from the hold and resume soliniods so it didn't make any sense to me. I did also try just pressing it half way and then releasing but the cruise would not hold either.

I see what you are saying with GM using different terminology to describe the same thing. Damn confussing.

I measured the resistance on the dark green wire when I changed the turn signal lever and that seemed to be okay. Just a question, what is the 24 ohm resistance supposed to do?

I live in ireland and have never had any experience with Cruise control. Cars here don't have it. I saw a cruise control transducer for sale on ebay. It is a Cardone industries remanufactured one. As I am sure these are pretty rare I bought it. I have a cousin in the US so she will send that on to me as most sellers in the US don't ship overseas.

I will double check that the hold, engage and resume terminals are getting the voltage and that there is 24 ohms on the green wire again. I will put in a new transducer and try again.

Thanks for your help.

 

Once the system is engaged and working correctly, the Dark Green wire (24 ohm resistance wire) is the only wire still supplying current to the solenoid coils. 12 V/ 23.3 ohms = 0.51 amps. This wire just limits the current draw to 0.5 amp which is enough to keep both solenoids engaged. This current is insufficient to pick up the coils when the system is initially turned on and the speed set.

Note also that all the re-manufactured cruise control transducers do not come with the resume solenoid. As far I have seen the resume solenoid is no longer available. Teh resume solenoid is held on to the cruise transducer by a few tabs or screws and can be removed with out much trouble.

One thing you might also want to do is clean the electrical terminals on both the cruise transducer and the resume solenoid, as well as the wire terminals. See if your parts stores have electrical cleaning spray and electrical dielectric grease. Use the spray to clean all the terminals and them coat the terminals on the transducer and resume solenoid with the dielectric grease and pugs with wires back on.

If you decide to get a digital unit, I would suggest the you get a copy of the installation manual first. Study the manual thoroughly and make sure the unit under consideration is compatible with your existing control switches and you have sufficient space to mount it in the engine compartment and the throttle cable can be routed to connect to your carb/TB.

 

Okay the cruise is still not working but getting closer. I think I have a problem with the turn signal lever but just want to double check something. Once the lever on the side of the turn signal stalk is moved from off to on and the button on the end of the turn signal stalk isn't pressed then I should have 12V at the hold solinoid. Is this correct? Cause at the moment I have no signal when lever moved from off to on.

I measured the hold wire (the one with 23.3 Ohm resistance) from the connector in the engine bay to the connector inside the car where the turn signal wires connect to. I am getting some strange readings. I bought some contact spray and cleaned the terminals but no good. I am reading from 45 to 93 ohms. Different every time I measure (even borrowed a mulitmeter from someone else in case mine was faulty but that read the same). I think the wire needs to be replaced. I was wondering could I get a piece of wire, stick a resistor in the middle of it that can take 0.5 Amps, 7 Watts. I wonder would that work.

Thanks.

 

You are correct. With the OFF/ON/SET switch in the ON position and the ENGAGE push button out, you will see 12 volts on the HOLD terminal of the transducer, via the DR GRN wire. You should also see 12 volts on the Resume solenoid via the Gray/Black wire. Try the test again at the connector at the base of the steering wheel. 12V on the connector from the cruise switch means the DR GRN wire is open circuited. If you do not get 12V on the end to the cruise switch, either the switch or the wire harness to the connector is bad. These guys have the correct turn signal/cruise control lever, in the correct white color for the 82-83 years.... http://www.moderndaymuscle.com/82_92_camaro

For the resistance reading on the DR GRN wire, if you do not have solid contact on both ends of the wire to the meter you will get erratic ohm readings. Or yu could be getting solid contact and the wire is almost broke in half somewhere, resulting in the higher than expected reading.

You could use a resistor, but it will be big. The acutal current is in the area of 0.41-- amperes. Don't for get to include the resistance of the paralleled solenoids in the circuit. My schematic show 5.8 ohms as the resistance for the transducer solenoid but does not give a value for the resume solenoid.

Standard resistance values in the range you would need are 22 ohms, 24 ohms and 27 ohms. The tolerance can vary from 1% to 20%, plus/minus.
You likely will need a 10 watt or larger power resistor. Due to the heat generated, mounting one under the dash will only lead to other problems. Mounting in the engine compartment likely will require a derating of the power rating, due to the high ambient temperature in the engine compartment. Most electronic components are designed to operate at or below 40C with out derating. I would try to stick with the wire, if possible.

 

I had a look at the cruise control lever and found that the 12V input and engage wire were crossed on the connector at the end of the cruise cable. I have swapped them around and am now getting the 12V on the hold connector in the engine bay when it should be there.

I sprayed some electrical cleaning spray on the connector under the dash that the cruise lever plugs into and when I measured the resistance again I am getting a steady 24.3 Ohms so I think that should be okay.

On the cruise lever I have the wiring seems damn light. As you said 0.41A + and that seams a lot for such a small wire. I think it would be an idea to get a genuine one. I will check out Modern day Muscle. I bought some stuff from them years ago when they were perrypam and they shipped internationally, hopefully they still do.

Will give it a drive in the next day or two and see if it works. Thanks for your help Dave

 

You have spent a bit of time getting this all figured out. It sounds as if you have all the electrical items accounted for and hopefully it will work as expected when you test it. Good bit of detective work to find the crossed wires. That is not something that is obvious unless you really look at and troubleshoot the circuit.

The wiring harness that runs up the steering column has small wires. The Pink Black +12V supply wire is 0.8 mm or #18AWG wire. The Black wire that connects to the DR BLU wire is 0.5 mm or #20AWG and the BLU wire that connects to the DR GRN wire is 0.22 mm or #24AWG wire. 24AWG is noting more that telephone wire and should have no problem carrying less than 0.5 amps at 12VDC.


I hope other find this thread useful for future trouble shooting of their cruise control system.

 

I took the car out this morning to try out the Cruise Control and it worked. I set it at 60 MPH and it held rock solid for the journey. I also tried out the resume and that worked also. It is quite an impressive system I tought.

Dave - Thanks for all your help. It was much appriecated. You are the Man!

 

Yu did quite a bit of work on this too. It good to hear a success story, where you actually resolved the problem and go the cruse control to work correctly.

You also did a good job of describing the problems that you found, which helps quite a bit in figuring out what is wrong.

Excellent job in getting the cruse control to function properly

 

Well it took me a while to figure out how it actually worked plus I never used cruise control before so it was all new to me. The cruise lever being wired wrong through me for a while.

 

Alright, I need to digest 82Crossfire's diagrams some more but....


The previous owner of my car said that the CC stopped working while he owned it and so he "disconnected it". Beyond no CC, my more annoying problem is a very bouncy speedo. I've removed the speedo cable which runs from the transducer to the dash and cleaned and lubed it a couple times with varying results. Still very bouncy. Haven't done anything with the cable which runs from the transducer to the trans though, other than unscrew it from the transducer and squirt some lube in there.

I have a feeling that my non functioning cruise control and bouncy speedo are related in that there is something not right within the transducer. Am I barking up the wrong tree here?

BTW, if it matters, my car has a dealer installed 140 mph, single needle speedo installed when the car was brand new.

Thanks in advance.

 

Exactly how did he "disconnect it?


This might be the correct approach if both happened at the same time. In the end a bouncy speedo may cause the cruise transducer to not function correctly. I had a bouncy sppedo one in my 82 and it turned out to be the sqaure connecting rod at the end of the cable that plugged into the cruise control transducer. It ended up breaking in two, then neither the speedo or the cruise control worked.

Based on that experience, I associate the bouncy speedo with a cable or rear problem. I suggest you pull the cable from the transmission out of the car, pull the cable out of the sheath and inspect, clean and lubricate it. Also check that the gear in the transmission that drives the speedo cable is not broken. the speedo cable binding inside the sheath is a prime cause for the bouncy speedo. Also make sure the square ends of the cable are not cracked or broken. These ends fit into the drive gears and cause the cable to rotate when the drive gear rotates. Once you reinstall the speedo cable from the transmission to the cruise transducer, make sure the cable rotates freely before connecting either end and that there are no sharp bends or kinks in the cable. Do the same with the speedo cable from the transducer to the speedo. When you reconnect all the cables make sure all cable connections are tight. If the speedo still bounces one of these problems likely exists: 1 - the speedometer is bad and needs to be rebuilt or replaced, 2 -the transducer is bad and needs to be replaced, 3 - sometning is bad in the transmission and the speedo cable drive gear is not being driven properly.

I don't think would cause a problem if the transmission drive gear and the speedometer drive gear have the correct diameters and number of teeth for the car's transmission and rear end ratios.


Think of the 82-83 cruise control as consisting of three major parts, the mechanical, the electrical and the vacuum. You know the mechanical has at least one problem. I think of this system as consisting of the speedo cable from the transmission to the cruise transducer, the cruise transducer, and the cable from the cruise transducer to the speedo.
Two mechanical items can break in the cruise servo, the minimum speed switch and the gear driven by the speedo cable from the transmission. This gear drives both the minimum speed switch and the vacuum setting supplied to the servo when the system is engaged. Get teh speedo working again, then you can tackle the other two systems.

I will post a bit more on the vacuum system this weekend and the electrical system got a pretty good description and troubleshooting methodology further up in this thread.

Dave

 

Thanks for the info. I have not determined how he disconnected it. Honestly, I don't even know how you'd even do it Everything appears connected. But I know that I should check the cable going into the trans. Where is it located exactly?

 

chazman

The speedo cable connects to the TH200C transmission at the rear of the tail stock on the driver's side. See the attached photo. you can see it best from behind the cross member.

This is the first time I have the car up on jack stands where I could take a look at the back of the tranny. Guess I found one of the fluid leak from the tranny. You can see it in the photo. Hope that is the only one

The vacuum components of the system include all the vacuum hoses, the vacuum servo, located in front of the canister, and the vacuum brake release switch, located on the brake pedal.

You should vacuum test both the servo and the release switch. For the servo, disconnect the vacuum hose on its fender side from the transducer and pull 14 inches of vacuum on it. If the vacuum leaks down more that 5 inches in one minute, the servo is bad and will need to be replaced. The same test can be used ont eh vacuum line and the brake release switch by doconnect that vacuum hose from the connections at the left of the transducer and pulling the 14 inch vacuum on the line. If either the hose or the switch are bad the vacuum will leak down more than 5 inches in one minute. The hose for the brake release switch runs down the left wheel well and through the fire wall with the speedo cable from the transducer. The other thing to check is to inspect all the vacuum hoses and replace any that are cracked. If you think that the hoses are original, you might as well just replace all of them.

As for disabling the system, I can think of a few ways. First verify that the vacuum source is still connected. The source connection is a hose connected to a vacuum fitting located behind the driver's side TBI. This hose then runs under the wiper motor and loops around to teh harness on the inside of the left wheel well. The next item to check is the accelerator cable from the servo to the TBIs. It routes from the servo, back beyond the transducer, behind the AC mounting bracket, to a bracket on the pass. side TBI and connects to the accelerator bracket on the driver's side TBI, with the gas pedal accelerator cable. Make sure all teh electrical connections are made, two connectors and a grond strap at the transducer, the cable connector at the base of the steering column, that the electrical brake release cable connector is connected to that switch, and that the vacuum hose os connected to the vacuum brake release switch.