Hello guys,

I have a pair of Trans Ams, one an 88 with VATS, the other an 84 without said system. Now, since the 84 has been turned into a parts car, and this car I'm building to keep, I can use parts from the other car. Here is the deal.

I hated the damn radio control steering wheel. So I pulled it and swapped in the classic three spoke design from the 84. Someone has offerred me money and decent coin too, for the radio control wheel, and column. I was wondering, are the columns interchangeable, or am I going to have problems with the VATS system once I swap it? I need a way to make it so I don't have to worry about the VATS.

How integrated is VATS into the car's starting system? If I can swap the column without much trouble then he can by all means have the radio control column and wheel.

Thanks for any input.

 

The columns will swap. You will have to "fool" the VATS with a resistor matching the chip in your key. There is a plug under the dash that connects to a pigtail in the column. That pigtail connects to a leaf switch in the ignition lock that uses the chip in the key to complete the circuit.

All you have to do is get a resistor of the same value as the one in your key, and use it to bridge the two contacts in that plug.

 

So its the same concept as using a paperclip to get your codes. Bridge the two terminals and you've got it? Wonder if I could cut the connector and solder in the resistor for a more permanent solution. Because if all you're doing is completing the circuit, there is no reason why that should not work. One bonus to the swap is I have like 3 keys for the other car. Key problem solved.

 

I would check the wiring harnesses, I believe they are different for things like cruise. I wanted to do this also and found the plugs to be different on the older columns.

 

Somehow I've got a feeling you may be right. I'll definitely check up on this. However, I think you can unscrew the brackets with all the switches and what not that the wiring plugs into. If the guy I know doesn't need any of that, I'll probably just do that.

 

You can swap the turn signal switches, etc. from one column to the other if you need to.

 

I wouldn't be sure, it looked to me like they were retained differently. They very well might, but I wouldn't assume so. I would compare them heavily before attempting.

 

I have done it on two of my birds.

 

I'm not doubting you, actually I would like to know how myself.

I just don't see how this (from my parts column):



Can be installed in place of this:



The vats wand has a connector that plugs into the board that is also the pivot for the turn signal switch. The non vats wand has a wire that just snakes down the column.

Here's the dorman pic of the vats unit:



I can see the obvious physical interchange, it's the harnesses. The vats wiring and harness is made into the pivot for the wand where the non-vats column is not.

 

I took all of the guts from one column and swapped them into the other. I did not try to mix and match.

 

Space Boy, If I did it, I'd just swap the whole thing, not even gut it, just bypass the VATS and swap everything over, I know my signal stalk on the 84 column is broken, but it still works, just the plastic is broken. But honsetly, just about every one I've seen is broken. I'd lose the security system, but in theory, I could use the resistor as part of the starting process if I really wanted to.

 

That's what I'm saying won't work. The plugs for the wiper/cruise/signal wand will not plug into the newer car, the harnesses are different. I have tried this myself and couldn't see how it could be done.

The pivot for the wand is also part of the harness on the vats column (see the pic of my parts bowl), I couldn't see how it could just swap over. I tore down both columns and rebuilt the vats column bowl onto the non-vats column and it stuck out so far that it covered the shaft so that the steering wheel could not be installed. Compare the depth of the bowls between the two and you will understand what I am talking about, the vats column has to fit the airbag system. The upper shaft on the vats column is also longer for this reason.

I ended up repairing my vats column with a parts column and using a junk airbag coil as a spacer to put on a non-airbag wheel. I'm not saying that it cannot be done, but I studied it and couldn't figure it out. If you do get it to work I am very interested in how you do it. Please detail what you had to do to get it to work if you don't mind because I would like to do this myself.

 

Ah ok, now I see what you're saying, makes some more sense. I have a pre airbag column. I swapped the steering wheels between the two cars long before the guy I know even wanted the radio controls. It was a straight swap. It is possible, that since I will be swapping dashes and so on, I may splice in some wiring and the like. In effect, I'd be cheating. But we'll see. Not going to happen til after I get my daily back from the body shop, it goes in on the 14th. For a week. Stupid brother parked his jeep half in the front yard half in the driveway and I never saw it. Needs a new bumper cover and so on.

 

I had a 2.8 87 Camaro one time and the motor blew. I had a 91 3.1 parts car and decided to swap engines,... in the process I converted the entire dash housing to the 91 style.



You will notice that I didn't want the Air Bag so I re-used the 87 Column. IIRC I had to remove the wiper plug from the 91 column, remove the wiper plug from the 87 column and swap them so the wiper plug would properly connect to the 91 dash harness. ( I don't think the wiper plug is an issue when swapping from 84-88..... just look to be sure the wires on the wiper plug are the same. )

Because the 91 dash system wanted VAT's input I pull the ignition cylinder from the original column, left the key in it turned to RUN, and stuffed the ignition cylinder behind the dash. The VATS was always "disabled" and I used the regular key from the 87 column to start the car. If I wanted to activate the VATS I just pulled the VATS key from the extra ignition cylinder under the dash.

Columns are pretty specific through the years:

82-83
84-88/89 ( some 88 & 89 had VATS )
90-92

Even in compatible years the WHITE ignition boxes mounted to the column were sometimes mounted "backwards". I think it was an Auto/Stick thing,...... but the Blue and Black dash harness plugs that install into the ignition boxes on the columns were reversed sometimes.



P.S. If you look at the pic of the 91 dash in my 87 you can see the orange VATS wire leading to the key cylinder behind my center console.

P.S.S. The difference in the blinker lever is due to a change in the cruise control wiring. The first pic is 82-89 and the second pic is 90-92. BOTH levers will operate the blinkers and wipers correctly in all columns ( as long as the wiper systems are the same - Delay vs, HIGH LOW only ) but the cruise connector is not compatable for all years.

 

Great information John! So how did you resolve the cruise wiring, did you change the harness on the car or on the cruise wand?

That is the kind of info I wasn't able to dig up when I was attempting to do it and did not have my CSM at the time either.

 

In the case of the 87 Coupe, the car didn't have it to begin with.

Cruise should not be a problem......... Use whatever stalk the column calls for and convert the signal ( if you have to ) at the connector at the bottom of the column.

Here is a picture of an adapter I got from a 91 or 92. It's connected to a 91 Dash harness ( on left ) and the wiring is for the wipers and the cruise control.



On the Right side this adapter will connect to another column that uses the same black wiper plug - but with a "early" style cruise connector. (The black wiper plug is what I had to re-pin when converting the 87 coupe above, same wires / different plug.)

By cutting the "early" style cruise connector off a bone yard car's dash harness it could very simply get spliced into the 4 cruise wires on the later dash harness. ( Looks like the 4 cruise wires are even the same colors for all years. )

For reference; Here's what the 84-89? wiper connector looks like: (column plug on bottom and dash plug on top.)



I don't have any 90-92 columns to inspect so that's about the best info I can pass along right now.

 

Now that is cool, good info!

 

Well guys, since mine is an 84 column going into an 88, it sounds like the only challenge I'll have is the radio controls wiring, and the VATS. I'm looking for a way to bypass the VATS. I know about the resistor trick, but gotta find how its actually done, don't worry I'll find it no need to go crazy here.

 

its just like they said you measure the resistance of your key with an ohm meter, then get a resistor as nears the same as possible from radio shack or something and you can solder it in to complete the circuit to the vats module. it will just think there is always a key in the ign

 

Alright, I'll keep it here no point in making a new post, though I will if I don't have any input here.

The column swap went off without much of a hitch, all the connectors went together. Here is the problem now, I went out to Radio shack, got 1500, 1000, and 470 resistors. I twisted together a 1000 and 470 since I was told by GM my key was a number 6. Stuck it in the connector like a back probe as seen in some pics around these boards. I got the security light to come on, but the car still wouldn't start. For reference, I twisted the key and the light didn't come on before I even put the resistor combo in.

Now, when we did the swap, I noticed the switches were corroded and were more abused than the ones in the GTA column. Its entirely possible the switches are the problem. The 84 column was last in a running car around 3 years ago. The GTA fired up every single time prior to the swap so the switches make sense. We didn't swap the switches because they were the same and we didn't want to make more work out of it. Unless GM read the key wrong, or I didn't get the resistor in the connector far enough.

Is it possible that the car is not starting because it was an auto to manual conversion still using the auto trans ignition switch, and the 84 has a manual trans ignition switch? The ignition switch is so freaking cheap I may just change it for peace of mind. Do it now, won't be doing it later. Especially if they're that corroded.

 

Stick a multimeter on the key, one probe on each side of the chip, see what it reads.

When I did my bypass I got a VATS connector off a junkyard car. Put my resistors in, plugged it in. Works great. Car just thinks the key is in all the time, no big deal.

I put a colum from an 82 camaro in my car. Besides the cable hook up for the park lock being different, it bolted right up. Reused my old switches.

 

I'm VERY surprised......... the 82-83 wiper system is not compatible with later years. How did you overcome that ??




The "best" way to find a wiring problem is by probing wires. If your not doing any voltage checks your kinda' just guessing at what's wrong.

OK,.. Sounds like the 84 column is installed and the 88 column is out,... no cut wires, plain and simple - right? Did you swap any column INTERNALS ?? If you did swap internals than any number of things could be 'tweaked' in there.

If you did NOT swap any column internals then remove the resistors, the put the 88 column on the drivers floor, plug in the VATS dash connector to the 88 column, turn the key on the 88 column, then turn the key on the 84 column to try and start the car.

If it starts then the resistors are suspect. If it doesn't start than the ignition box on the 84 column could be the problem. Coincidence IS a real thing and the bug could be one or several other things too,....... so start simple.

 

Used the original wiring. I reused almost all the electricals out of the original colum.

 

Alright guys, I re did the resistors in a couple different ways. I had the right number 1470. I just didn't have it all the way in or the connection wasn't that good. It runs. No problems there. I'll get a VATS box for a more permanent fix at some point.

However, couple new problems, first I know how to fix. Second I don't.

First problem is the wheel was a lil off. I'll have to undo it at the steering box and line up the wheel right to get it fixed. No problem, I'll do that at some point.

Second and more important problem however is this.

The turn signals are messed up. I don't know if its because the wheel is off or what. The right turn signal works just fine. The left turn signal however, doesn't work. It will click into place, and click off, but the signal doesn't function. It does nothing at all. Note, this worked perfectly before the column swap. I highly doubt there is any real issue with the electrical. But does anyone know where or how the mechanical switch function may work? I'm wondering if that is where my problem is. I had to take the column out of my old daily and that car had a problem because I broke the roll connector. I got the column re aligned and the signals worked, but the airbag did not. Is there something similar going on in here?

 

Alright, fixed the wheel alignment. But really, no one has any input on the turn signals?

More info relating to signals. The passenger side signals work as they're supposed to front and rear. The driver's side signal, front bulbs (front and front side marker) are out and don't come on when signal is used, the rear just stays on like a brake light. I swapped bulbs up front, they're not the problem. Any ideas anyone? I know I can still legally use my hand as a signal, and done that, but, stupid people may not realize what I'm doing. And the law may play ignorant too, in spite of me being legal. Would like to fix it before I wind up getting pulled over for it. I'm thinking its something in the column or wiring. On another note, the driver's side floor courtesy light doesn't work either, is it all related? All of this DID WORK PERFECTLY, prior to column swap. So I know its not wiring related on the car itself, possibly in the column or stalk?

 

Another question,.... is your car a Digital Dash car ??

 

x2, the 88 and 84 turn switch is different if you look at the diagrams. so you would have to use 100% of the wiring, modules, etc from your 88

 

Nope not a digital dash car. I had a buyer for the radio control column which is why I did the swap in the first place. I wasn't gonna use the radio control wheel so it was pointless. Everywhere I look it seems the column wiring is the same from 84-89 or 90. Which is why I'm a lil confused. It is entirely possible the pins are different, but I doubt it. Both cars had delay wipers, both cars had cruise. Only difference was the radio controls in the GTA wheel.

Looking at the part numbers, they're the same. So I am thinking something broke. The 84 column was in different places in the garage for a couple years. Possible that it broke the switch at some point. The only difference is it seems there is a different switch for the one with radio controls. Since I don't have them anymore that is not an issue. But I'm thinking it could be a bad switch, I'll have to check when I get a chance. But even reading the FSM it says if its doing what I am seeing then its the switch.

John yes it was a straight swap. Except for the VATS resistor naturally. But I resolved that too. I thought the digital dash cars were different, but that doesn't apply here because the GTA has analog gauges.

 

The simplest way to know if it's the 84 column or not is to simply plug in the original 88 columns C210 connector in and try the lights.

I don't have any info on the 84 Firebirds wiring, but I've got an 88 shop manual and the brake light wiring IS NOT the same in Firebird and Trans AM. ( The shop manual has many "Lamp Monitor" soecific schematics for Digital Dash cars. )

Here is a diagram of the Firebird AND Trans Am Front Park/ Marker/ Turn/ Hazard/ and Stop lights. ( for analog dash cars ) Notice the voltage path for the Trans AM brake lights is passed thru the Turn/Hazard switch in the column,... the Firebirds Brake voltage is not.



Trans AM rear Turn/Hazard/Stop


Firebird rear Turn/Hazard/Stop

 

Ok, well, since I don't have access to the 88 column anymore, I can't just simply redo the swap plug it in and try the lights, confirming if the 84 column is the issue. I do have an 84 shop manual laying around somewhere. If the diagrams match then obviously it shouldn't be an issue. All the lights, meaning all of them, brake lights, parking lights, headlights, high beams, hazards, Right turn signals, all work perfect. Its just the left turn signal that is not right, leading me down a diagnosis that is either the one bulb went out (doubt it) or the signal switch/stalk is broken in the column. Now, I could get an 88 signal switch and swap that in, but the part numbers are the same between the two cars. Unless the radio controls meant different pinouts.

I'll have to get under the dash of both cars at some point and check it physically. Just getting info and all for discussion.

 

Found the 84 manual, John. Except for couple of renamed junctions. Its identical to the Trans Am one. Up front and out back. Ground may have changed but the overall schematic and wire/power routing is the same, down to wire colors and resistance figures. I'll get under the dash panel maybe tomorrow and see what is going on.

I can see if I have voltage going to the light blue wire too. If I don't then that switch inside is likely bad or dirty.

See above post for what lights work and what doesn't. The only lights having an issue is the left turn signal. It stays on constant in the back like the typcial bad bulb sign, and doesn't come on at all up front.