Super64!

So, I have an issue with this car I'm fixing up and I haven't got the slightest clue as to how to fix it and this is the only car forum I'm a part of so I'm hoping somebody here can help me. Now, I know that a '65 Olds F85 isn't exactly a third gen, and I apologize if this breaches any rules or anything, but I've got about nowhere else to look and I'm not a electronic expert myself so I've hit a brick wall and just need some help. If you're still reading this, thanks. Anyway, This f85 (basically a cheaper Cutlass) will not crank unless it's being jumpstarted. The battery can be fully charged and everything, but the crank will only turn over a few times before it slows down and refuses to continue turning. I've checked the battery voltage after it refuses to turn over and it goes from a full 12.6 volts before cranking to around 11.5 after every time. Nowhere near a dead battery. I've replaced the starter and that didn't fix it. On top of this, The car has a parasitic draw issue despite the fact my multimeter says it doesn't draw any amps when off. Despite this, overnight, half the battery will drain and I've put multiple batteries in it just to be sure and it still drains. A friend of mine bought this car on a bit of a whim, and it's a great car all things considered, but it has this strange electrical issue and I know nothing of electronics and despite my best efforts of trying to follow wiring throughout the car and staring at wiring diagrams in the included service manual I can't figure anything out. it does run and everything electronic works besides the right turn signal and it's lacking a radio, but I'm about 99% certain that isn't the cause of the issue. A handful of wiring has been "tweaked" by a previous owner, but as far as I can see it's correct so I have no clue what's going on, please help!

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

1. disconnect the positve battery cable and put your multimeter on 10amps or higher setting and measure between removed positive cable and positive battery terminal. If it reads anything more than a couple tenths of a volt for a modern radio then there is a parasitic draw. Remove one fuse at a time until the amp draw falls. This isolates the circuit the problem is in.
2. check all the wire connections between the battery and the frame/motor/body, starter. anything that looks suspicious, replace/clean/tighten.
3. as above but check other wires going to the solenoid. Note the wire from the key to the distributor is a special resistance wire that lowers the voltage as the points ignition won't like a full 12 volts (assuming original distributor). It sounds like you might not be getting a full 12V underload to the starter. WHen you swapped the starter did you also get a new starter solenoid?

If you want real help with this sort of thing from old school car guys, log in to Team Chevelle (www.chevelles.com) which has some of the best gurus around for old school gm ignition, timing, wiring etc., been a member there since '97 and still learn stuff.

Super64!

Thank you for replying. Taking you advice, I began looking through the wiring diagram for this special resistance wire, I found it and discovered it had been replaced in the car, seeing as the wire was in a clear coating that had turned brownish over the years and in the diagram it was suppose to be pink. Using my mulitmeter, I confirmed this was the right wire by tracing it into the car to the key and using the continuity function from the key end to coil end of the wire. I confirmed the wire was working and I checked it's resistance. According to the book's diagram, it should have a 1.35 ohm resistor in the wire in the engine bay half of it. I haven't found the resistor, but my multimeter did read 1.6 ohm of resistance on the wire. The car still won't crank properly so I'm wondering if that's too much resistance? Sorry, i don't know anything about electronics so I'm just guessing here. Also, yes. I replace the solenoid when I changed the starter and I wired it up according to the book, so I know it's correct. If pictures of the car or diagram or anything may help, I'm perfectly able to put those up as well.

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

I recommend doing a proper load test on the battery or try an alternate battery next. I expect that the parasitic draw has over time has killed a cell in the battery. Voltage can show ok but doesn’t have the ability to handle a sustained heavy draw.

If still no go then id expect the starter.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

11.5v is WAY a completely dead battery. Here is a voltage vs. percentage charge chart.

https://images.app.goo.gl/DZCFio9zCTJwCjem9

Follow the KISS principle. You have a useless, spanked battery that has no capacity left. In the immortal words of Leonard McCoy....This man's dead Jim!

How do you have the meter hooked up for parasitic draw amperage testing? And what is it reading? Make sure you have it set to read milliamps. Even 100 milliamps (0.100A) will drain the battery quickly. Most cars should be less than 25 milliamps. A properly functioning 65 Olds will probably be effectively zero draw. It's not as if there are computers with keep-alive memory feeds.

GD

Super64!

When I've done a parasitic load test, I disconnect a lead of the battery, leaving the other one connected (I've done it checking both through the positive and negative terminals just to be sure) and I connect the multimeter in series by connecting one lead to the unhooked battery terminal and the other to the unhooked battery cable. No matter what scale I've used (10A, 200mA, 20mA) I get a zero amp reading and the mutlimeter itself is brand new and has read amp draw on one other car I tested it on. Despite this, the battery will drain about 5-6 volts in a 24 period. I've tried two batteries so far (one that came with the car, and another I've used before and I am almost positive it's a good battery. Especially, since when I pulled it out of storage it still had 12.5 volts in it despite being stored and untouched throughout the winter and it's only about a year old anyway) despite this, it's drained both the same amount and i can't explain it. Oddly enough, I left the car sitting the past few days with the voltage regulator unplugged and it didn't drain the battery, or at least not the 5-6 volts like it normally does. When I checked it today, it was at 11.5 volts, which is what I'm pretty sure I left it at days prior. The previous owner, who confessed he didn't know jack about cars and his buddy built the car for him, said he believes the draining has something to do with the regulator. The regulator itself is a brand new unit so I don't know it has some sort of adjustment or something or maybe the wiring to it is fishy i don't know. I do know that even with it unplugged, the same cranking issue still occurs. From what I'm understanding from General Disorder's post, I guess the car quickly drains the battery after only a couple revolutions during cranking? The starter and solenoid have been replaced by me a few days ago so I genuinely have no clue why.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Because the battery is old and has no capacity left. It might charge, and you might get 12.5v (after fully charging it should show an additional surface charge of typically over 13v) but that doesn't mean it has any real capacity. The fact that a little starter motor draw for a few seconds drops the voltage to 11.5 AND the car starts with a jump tells me the battery is shot. I don't need anymore evidence at that point.

Are you absolutely sure the meter has a good fuse for the amp settings? If you hook up the meter to voltage while in the amp setting you will can easily blow it's little fuse. Check it with a 9v battery and a dome light or similar small bulb.

GD

Super64!

Normally, I'd agree with you, But I took that battery and tried to use it in my 82 c10 with a built 327 and it turned and started that car just fine, no signs of issue.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Then you have poor connections at the main large AWG battery cables, terminals, or the wire has high resistance and you have a major voltage drop going to the starter. Look for signs of heat. The cables, terminals, etc will get hot at the point of resistance.

That battery still very likely has very low reserve capacity. It might start a perfectly good vehicle but the fact that the voltage drops to 11.5 in a few seconds means the battery is very tired.

GD

JT

iTrader: (1)

An alternator failure can cause a battery drain with key off. It could also be a circuit, which removing fuses while monitoring for voltage can help trace as GD already suggested.

If the battery is tested good (replacements mean nothing as the state is unknown) and the starter tests good, signs would point to a voltage drop with a poor circuit connection somewhere. A bad ground, bad power, etc., which can also be monitored with a simple volt meter while testing under load (i.e., cranking). You want to do a voltage drop test. That is not simply hooking positive to positive and negative to negative.

Super64!

So, update on the car. Before I start, I'd like to thank everyone trying to help the poor idiot who posted about 65 olds problems he's having on a site for 3rd generation camaros and firebirds. Thank you all. Anyway, I had the batteries tested and they both tested good (The one that came with the car and the one I had) but they were both pretty dead, so I guess my ancient analogue battery charger is to blame for the cranking issue. With a truly fully charged battery it cranks fine for a good while, so that appears to solve that problem. Sorry for the accidently misleading anyone on that problem. I knew the battery was good, but I didn't know the charger wasn't. Anyway, I replaced the fuses in my multimeter and discovered the voltage regulator was sucking about 4 amps at all times. With it unplugged it drops to zero. I'm still leaving a battery in it overnight with the regulator unplugged just to confirm that that was the only source of parasitic draw, so I'll update you all on how that goes probably tomorrow. With that done, it seems like the electrical woes are taken care for now, but I have another issue with the car. The timing. On this Olds, the firing order is the same as a SBC but the rotor moves counter clockwise. The previous owner obviously didn't have the engine tuned quite right as when it ran it like to pop in the higher rpms. I went to adjust the timing, moved the distributor a tiny bit and now it will not run. For some reason it almost runs if the distributor is all the way counter clockwise, but the timing mark is nowhere near the timing plate on the cover. According to factory spec, it should be set to 7.5 degrees retarded. but only almost runs with it deep into advance territory. Plus, maybe I'm just uneducated, but I've never heard of an engine liking retarded timing before. Oddly enough, the timing plate only reads from 0-10 degrees retarded and it's the factory plate.

Bow_Tied

iTrader: (1)

BTDC means advanced, so that timing spec is advanced. Make sure you are setting it with the vacuum advance disconnected.

The dwell should be set up as well after checking the condition of the points.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Dead battery and blown meter fuses. Its like I'm psychic or something!

But yeah - timing spec should be 7.5 degrees Advanced, not retarded. If you retarded it that far it would definitely pop out the exhaust. It fact it would shoot flames, have no power, and probably overheat.

Sounds like the distributor is a tooth off. I don't know what's involved in setting the distributor on that olds, but that's what I would look into. Find a youtube video on distributor installation for that engine.

GD