Hey there guys, I know this question has been asked a bajillion times, but I just can't seem to find some simple answers.

First of all. What makes the ZZZ block so good compared to other 87+ 4 bolt main shoort blocks? If I were to get one made at a machine shop, then would it be cheaper for the same quality and durability?

I'm trying to decide the parts I want for a 350 combo that would put out around 400hp. I know the ZZ430 and the Fast burn 385 are great engines, but would be getting a short block built by a machine shop and then choosing my own heads/cam/etc combo be cheaper but could produce just the same HP?

Thanks, I hope you guys understand what i mean.

 

I dunno if you've seen this list, but it may help you out.
ZZ4 service parts list

 

Frankly the ZZ block itself isn't likely to be better than the standard 4-bolt main block in any significant way. Material composition, structural design, and oiling route (priority main vs. regular) are the big differentiators that create strength and longevity. To get these, you go Sportsman or Bowtie from the GM list.

The ZZ crank is a nicer forged piece, as compared to the cast crap in regular engines. The rods are supposedly nicer powder-metal construction, marketed by GM as stronger than the old 'pink' rods which were very good.

The ZZ pistons are standard hypereutectic 4 valve relief pieces, nothing special.

You could have a shop whip up something comparable or better with aftermarket crank and rods, may or may not cost less. Figure a new GM 4-bolt block is in the $500-600 range, add up the cost of the pistons, rods, crank, and assembly labor...if that's higher than the ZZ shortblock you have enough info to make a decision.

 

I think I'm asking if whether a machine shop could build an equal or better short block for cheaper than the zz block.

 

If you're not looking for the forged crank and PM rods, you can come in cheaper.

Hit the junkyards and find a wrecked truck or SUV with a 350...research model years to find the ones that came with roller cam provisions...and have that rebuilt. It will have a cast crank, not forged, and have regular con rods not PM. However, if the shop replaces the rod bolts with ARP pieces and machines the crank and cyl bores, you'll have a spiffy engine that can take a beating...probably better than the mass-produced ZZ4.

Figure $100-200 for the used short block, about $400 in machinework to do a decent bore and hone w/ torque plates, grind and polish the crank, replace the rod bolts and resize the rods. Labor rates vary wildly so expect some variation. Then you have parts...pistons (~$250 for a set of Keith Black hypers), ~$100 for Speed Pro plasma-moly rings, ~$70 for main bearings, same for rod bearings, ~$30 for cam bearings, and whatever $$ the shop wants for assembly labor charges. Should come in less than $500 for the used shortblock and new parts, around $600-1000 in labor for machinework plus assembly. That's between $1100 and $1500 for the whole shortblock assembled.

That's the route I normally go and recommend...unless you're spraying major nitrous or supercharging, this setup will take whatever you can dish out. Run a set of Keith Black hypereutectic pistons, match up the heads and cam to your induction and exhaust plans, and you'll be a happy camper.

 

Guess I'll have to do some homework on a good block!

Thanks guys! :hail:

 

kevinc - all those parts you mentioned come in an engine rebuild kit don't they?

is a 350 just a 350? like is there any difference in a 1992 camaro 350 block and a 78 chevy truck block? could you buy an old 350 block and buy a rebuild kit for a '92 350 camaro?

i know (or think i know) that a rebuild kit comes complete with all the moving parts and seals. the only thing you need to provide is a block and head covers. and of course engine accessories. am i on track or do i not know what the f*** i'm talking about?

i'm lookin to get a 350 to swap into my tired 191 (or whatever the hell a 3.1L is). but when i go to the junkyards, all i look at is wrecked birds and camaros. i hope i can use a 350 from any chevy car, cause that'll be much easier to find.

if waht i said above is all right, it seems the easiest path would be to buy a 350 block either from a junkyard or from GM, then buy a rebuild kit and i'd be good to go. oh yeah, and i'd also need an intake mani. and a TB, but is that all? i hope to hell it is, this crap adds up fast. thanks for the help

 

also...


if i dont know what i'm talking about, please help me out.
if you buy an engine block, what other parts do you need to make the car run? what comes in a rebuild kit? what other parts need to be bought? what engine accessories won't switch over from a v-6 to a v-8. i've done a search and can't really come up with anything i can really use...any help?

 

There's no ANSI standard for rebuild kits, components vary. Generally they come with pistons, rings, bearings, and basic gaskets/seals. Rarely do they come w/ a new crank, rods, or rod bolts.

The big differences are rear main seal design, and roller cam provisions. '86+ have nicer 1-piece rear main seals, older ones have 2-piece rear main seals which are somewhat prone to leakage. '87+ have roller cam provisions, older ones don't.

See above...generally you'd need to show up w/ a block, crank, and rods.

You haven't mentioned heads, cam, timing set, oil pump, etc. yet. The heads and intake manifold are interdependent in terms of bolt pattern so choose carefully.

You also haven't mentioned an ECM, wiring harness, fuel injectors, or any of the other stuff needed for a V6-V8 swap.

In junkyard/shop lingo, "long block" has heads and some accessories like oil pump/pan/cam/timing set, "short block" is just the block, crank, rods, pistons, rings, bearings, and main caps.

Can't really help much beyond this, next step for you is parts shopping and price comparison. Summit, Jegs, the local machine shops can all quote you prices and parts lists. Given this is your first engine project, and you kinda hijacked the other guy's thread, you maybe ought to hit the bookstore and/or start another thread.

 

So, you guys have some reccomendations for donor vehicles with good blocks?