i was thinking this summer to see if i can stuff a big block motor in my 91 rs. Its funny how horse power is addictive cus im hooked, I just droped a 350 in and i dont think its big enough, anyway I wanna just skip boring and stroking and just dump a big block in if i could. Any response would be nice and even some pointers to look out for like motor mounts and what tranny will bolt on ect. Thanks

 

Motor mounts are the same.

Your trans will bolt up.

Those aren't the issues to be concerned with. Exhaust and accessories are the problems you'll have to solve.

Do a search on this forum. Being the most popular swap for these cars (305 ->350 isn't exactly a "swap", since it's really the same motor just with a different bore) this has been totally beaten to death over and over. A number of people have done it; some of them even have web sites with pics, part #s, etc.

 

I was curious about the motor mounts, so the stock mounts work?

As for headers, that's easy... Hooker makes swap headers! Designed to work with 396-502 blocks and the stock mount towers and mounts.

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...H/EngSwap.html

Go to that page and search for 2226 it will take you right to the whole Camaro section. They have 2nd and 3rd gen headers, but the 3rd gen only come in the bigger primaries 1-7/8" x 30".

From the footnotes, it looks like they can piecemeal an exhaust system behind it too.

As for accesories, bah! I plan to yank out the power steering, a/c and heat. WHAT accesories?

My questions, if anyones feeling froggy, are these...

1) Is there enough beef in the front end for me to setup a mount plate? I intend to stuff a 565ci BBC in there, pushing ~850 hp so I know the stock motor mounts I'm forced to use for the headers stand just about no chance even with custom repros and solid mounts.

With the 12 pt cage in it, think there will be enough strength in the front frame rails (with the cage ties) for a front plate mount on the engine or am I just going to end up breaking mounts AND bending frame rails? Ah the joys of engine swaps and lax smog laws in the country.

2) What's the mount-to-air filter height difference from the 305 to say the 9.8" deck height on a 454 (same as the 502 Mark VI I plan to use). Planning on a 4" cowl, but that may be overly optimistic to clear the Super Victor + King Demon 1190cfm carb + filter.

And yes, should I actually go through with this I'll keep you all informed. :lala:

 

I would guess there have been more V6 to V8 swaps than BBC swaps, but that's only a guess.

AllR, you're new in these here parts, so we'll cut you a little slack. However...

Saying anything about the BBC swap is "easy" is - well, naive. Do the Search RB suggested, and you'll see it's so. Things have to be bent, trimmed, eliminated, etc., in order to do this. And, the Holley/Hooker footnote about the rest of the exhaust system starts off with "can also be fabricated", and then they talk about mufflers only. If you want an exhaust system, it will have to be fabricated. Period.

With 850 HP, you're going to want to beef up everything. I did see one particular 3rd gen at the track with a sprayed SBC that ran 10's, you could hardly recognize the factory frame/suspension under the hood. He went about it the right way.

Of course, any BBC installation is a violation of federal law for vehicles operated on public highways and byways. However, we all know what that means to each of us personally. In my case, the Camaro needs one more emissions inspection/test in Nov '05, after that (if current Colorado law is still in place), it will be be eligible in Nov '06 for 5-year "collector plates". With collector plates, the regular emissions inspection/testing is not required. But (and there is always a "but" in life), '82 is also the first year requiring the "enhance" emissions testing, so they may very well decide that the exemption will not apply when that model year rolls around for collector plates. So, I'm not sure I'll rush out in Dec '05 to implement my plan for a 502 for the '57, and the 396 for the Camaro...

 

Well, that depends on your viewpoint. Easy is finding any off the shelf parts at all as opposed to taking it to an exhaust shop and having headers custom made (and I've had to go that route too). As for "fabing" a full exhaust, since when did that become dramatic? I've had a "full exhaust" fabricated for just about every classic car I've ever owned (two '71 Chevelles, a '69 Chevelle, a '74 Nova and a '65 Chevy II) and the bill was never more than about $400. I doubt having one fabbed for an engine swapped Camaro is going to be any more dramatic, with the footnote of pretty much ignoring smog laws. And since I will no longer be relying on any part of the stock body as a structural member, having to notch a floor panel to run exhaust through it isn't that challenging.

Nothing will be left of the factory suspension, I already intend to replace everything rearward with Spohn parts, Moser 9" etc. Along with welded subframes and a 12 point cage (tying the frame rails together yet again, along with reinforcing the body structure) and the new crossmember for the TH400 I don't imagine 800hp is going to cause any grief (with the understanding it will be automatic, I won't be using a trans brake, so it will never have to survive a 5,000 rpm clutch drop on slicks for example). It will all be NHRA spec'd because it will have to pass tech. For the front suspension I'm still doing some more research, I already know in the very least I'm going to need to reinforce the k member and figure out a shock & spring combo to support the added weight. Finding or having fabbed some strut tower braces that work with the big block is also on the list.

Please understand, I was only giving the information I thought pertinent to the question I was asking. Will there be enough frame rigidity to use a front mount plate or am I going to have to have a custom front frame clip made by Chris Alston or the likes.

That's kind've a broad statement. Just because it's a big block doesn't necessarily make it illegal. Technically it would be based on the year of the motor or the chassis, whichever was newer, and would have to comply with standing law for that year (but again, these laws depend on your state). In all honesty I don't plan on making it smog compliant, nor anything approaching a daily driver. It will be a weekend warrior at best, seeing mostly cruise time, a few local shows, and the track. With A/C and heat removed, not to mention no sound deadening, it won't be very friendly anyways. Because of where I live (rather remote), the smog laws are very lax. When I got my Impala inspected for example, there was not even a visual inspection! No sniff, just a light & brake test and "Here's your sticker". And that's a '96!

As for searching, I've done searches. 4 to be exact, and the search engine here doesn't work quite the way it says. Using boolean statements as indicated returned the same results as not using them, which is to say more than 5200 results 99.98% of which had nothing to do with big block swaps. The only posts I did find had very little information other than vague statements of how difficult it is but I admit I gave up after 5 pages worth of results.

Their idea of difficult and mine may not mesh, and without any specifics I have no point of reference. In effect, making the statement "it's difficult" not very useful to me. Since I already intend to remove all stock wiring and electronics, rewire with a Painless wiring harness and fuse box, remove all accesories, power steering, a/c, heat etc, go with a customized cooling solution etc... most of the difficulties you might commonly run into will be non issues were you trying to keep all these things intact (as they tend to be the most difficult parts IMO).

I apologize if I sounded overly optimistic about just "dropping in" a moster big block and tearing off into the sunset. Understand that a lot more planning has gone into the project idea than I let on here, I just didn't think I needed to go that far into it to ask a simple question about a front mount plate.

 

In fact, any BBC in any 3rd gen is a violation of federal emissions laws. GM wasn't putting BBC's in passenger cars by 1982, so there is no "later" version that you can clone. I understand that you weren't talking about a street car, but people tend to hear about some race-only configurations and assume they can do it for their daily driver. I'm assuming the originator of this thread is talking about a street car.

Fabricating a street exhaust for high horse power with any kind of ground clearance is very much a challange with these cars. If you're willing to fabricate a tube frame and re-do the floor pan, then it becomes a little easier.

For an engine plate, you'll have to plan the cage to include it. Personally, I've never seen or heard of it, but a tube crossmembers to replace the factory welded sheet piece, yes (basically a complete redesign/replacement of the front frame).

 

Don't have to tube frame it to hack up some floor pan since my cage and crossmember will all be interconnected it will take all the abuse. If it turns out to be a little too much like a flopper, I can always add another crossbar where the back seat used to be

I understand what you're saying about street/daily rides compared to what I'm talking about, and trust me I know the fine line between streetability and not streetable has long since been danced across by my plans. I do intend to drive it on the street, but those times will be fairly few and far between and will involve a check with the weatherman for sure heh. And I'm just crazy enough to consider my solid roller 700 lift big block "streetable". It runs on pump gas, it must be streetable right?

I know it will be interesting trying to run 3.5 or 4" dual exhaust under the car, but clearance is going to be tight anyways so might as well just go for it. I plan to have exhaust dumps behind the front tires (outlets from the cutouts) and in front of the rear tires (through the mufflers). Neither configuration is smog legal, but neither is stuffing the engine in there to begin with so why go half way? And it solves the joy of trying to run a 4" exhaust pipe around the rear end and axles. If Mufflex can get a full 4" system under a 4th gen, I can get a 4" system under a 3rd gen.

As for the motor plate, I'll just have to deal with it when it gets to that point I guess. I'm fairly certain I can get away with using the front ties on the cage combined with the original frame rails as a mounting point for the engine plate without any problems. Just trying to suppliment the engine mounts as I have little faith in the stock ones holding on. Maybe if I get custom stands and solid mounts made. What's your opinion on that? Engine mounts is not my area of expertise, I'm usually working with engine mounts already designed to handle a big block, not adapting small block mounts.

As I said before, should I go through with it I'll keep everyone informed. I have a digital camera and my own site, so expect a detailed following of the process hehe. I'm still not dead set on a 3rd gen, having found a few early 4th gens for only slightly more than a 91-92 3rd gen I'm tempted to try a 4th gen. I know it'll physically fit... after all, GM themselves has a 572 powered 4th gen Camaro.

Thanks for your thoughts. Ideas are appreciated.

 

You are overlooking the headers..The biggest problem youre gonna have is how to make a 2 1/4" primary headers and make it fit..Hooker does offer the 2" primary version(no part number for it) but its still not enough for your application. Any bigger then you will need A-arms,major trimming on the front subframe and firewall.The 4" cowl is not enough either if you want to put a Dominator in it..I have the regular Vic jr intake and a Holley 4780 and the 3"Edelbrock low profile base open filter is 95% past the hood..One more thing about the plate,If you are going to use one you need to find a way to move the accesory belts back since its going to hit the electric fan..I guess you can always get a thinner rad,thinner fan etc..but thats whats involved..Heres a couple of pics..



Daz

 

Daz

 

Exhaust will be your biggest problem, as said above. I knew someone that built a race car out of an IROC with a 540ci big block, and the exhaust was the biggest headache of anything.

 

yea i think this is going to be my summer project cus i just got my hands on a 91 hard top camaro with a 350 turbo tranny and a full race suspension in the rear and new fuel lines were ran on the car. Since there is and increase in weight do you think i will need a different set up for the suspension in the front or will the stock suspension do the job??? I also would like to know what kind of radiator should i run cus i heard keeping these things cool is a real pain in the ........ Thanks for the responses by the way its been very helpfull.

 

here`s what I did with the exhuast after I put in a big block, And I think .700 lift IS streetable and There is no law against this swap in michigan and if there is there is no one to enforce it!

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/487725

If you need any pointers, let me know horrible!

 

There is a law in Michigan because Federal law applies in all 50 states.

So, you're claiming "no controlling legal authority"?

What's legal and what you can get away with are two completely different things.

 

No, i highly doubt that it will fit under a 4" cowl. I have a 7" and a 454, vic jr, and a holley 750 with a 3" air cleaner, and i say i have about a inch clearance betwen the hood and air filter. Not much, and makes it fun to drive, but i can just say ha, i got a big block.

 

Mine`s a three inch harwood and I use an rpm dual plane and 850 demon with a 4 x 14 k&n filter with just a little clearence left.
I can`t see using a 7 inch crowl hood on the street....496...you must have one of those party store mirriors to see around that honker!LOL!

 

I forgot, i carry a carb spacer to. I probly could have gotten by with a 5 inch if i wanted to stay with a 14x3 and no spacer. Would have been tight tho.

 

check out these headers, these are made for my 615 tall deck in my 86...

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TwAjY...59970936119363
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TADyA...59970905868476

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VwDhA...Tb4XQsm*ryo5U4!un*vwKq/4.5%20inch%20collector.jpg?dc=4675459970824868574

Just phone Dan at Lemons Headers....they are nice....

 

How much $

 

they were $1100.00 US, came with egt ports, copper gaskets, arp stainless bolts...and recuders from 4 1/2" to 4"

 

I guess if you can afford a 600 cubic inch merlin, they are not priced too baddly, What seperates the men from the boys, the price of thier toys

 

Stuffing a BigBlock in your car can be done but not easily. You'll need beefier motor mounts and front struts. Steering shaft might get in the way of the headers or exhaust manifolds, radiator might be too deep and not clear the fan shroud,or not deep enough to cool the engine. A lot of clearence issues. Go to FBodymotorsports.com they have a lot of fabricated parts for custom applications. Plus a whole **** load of OEM parts too. Hope this helps.

 

I was lucky enough to find a set of Lemons headers for my '85 on ebay for $300.00. They were in good condition work friggin' great!!! BTW, I'm running a 482" BBC.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by louich
[B]check out these headers, these are made for my 615 tall deck in my 86...

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TwAjY...59970936119363
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TADyA...59970905868476

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0VwDhA...Tb4XQsm*ryo5U4!un*vwKq/4.5%20inch%20collector.jpg?dc=4675459970824868574

I was lucky enough to find a set on ebay for $300.00. They were in good condition work friggin' great!!!