LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Kurt, if you're interested I'll trade you my 87 CC quadrajet, the CC distributor (already has an Accel cap and rotor, fairly low miles), and the 87 Computer for the non-cc distributor you have (HEI I'm assuming?). The CC carb may need some new gaskets (the add-on electric pump on the car flooded it out last time I cranked it), but it ran fine before that. I'm going non-cc on this car, and just need a distributor to do the conversion. I may be able to throw in some misc sensors and whatnot that I won't be resusing, too. Just PM me if you're interested. You're not too far from me, so we could probably arrange a meetup this weekend.

kboehringer

LT1Guy,
That's a bit of a lop-sided trade in OUR favor. Are you sure there isn't anything else we can give you in exchange? PM Sent.
Sincerely,
Kurt

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Just let me know when you find Fieros in your junkyard searches, particularly any with the Aero package (SEs, GTs, and Indys!)...still looking for several items for mine!

kboehringer

TGO Guys,
We called Jegs and the wait should be less than two weeks to reach our door. We'll just wait for it to come in rather than try to find somehting different. Five7kid suggested this one and several guys agreed it was a good choice. NO reason to rush it now and buy something stupid. We still have plenty of other stuff to do.
Sincerely,
Kurt

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

If you guys don't want to wait that long, I just got off the phone with Chris Little down at Barnett Performance...they have your cam in stock. $212.73/ including tax. Let me know if you need directions!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It'll ship from Summit today at $189.95 + order fee ($9.75, I think).

They're opening up a store in Atlanta, right?

flyitlikustolit

yessir..... I can't wait

kboehringer

TGO Friends,
After reading your posts I quickly called Jegs to get a better estimate of delivery. If they had confirmed 2-weeks I would have cancelled and went elsewhere.

The Rep at Jegs called CompCams and the Camshaft was shipped to Jeg's yesterday. They said I should expect delivery in GA on Wednesday.....Thursday at the latest.

My wife is getting the Short-Block tomorrow morning (it's actually ready now). The heads will not be ready until Tuesday so the Camshaft is not really needed yet.

This weekend Derek and I will install the Crank, Rods, Pistons and Rings, Oil Pump, Pan, Knock Sensor, etc. We'll do the Plasti-Guage routine even though the bearings should be perfect from the shop. I'll have to teach him about ring end-gap spacing etc. There will be a lot of TEACHING going on so we should be happy if we get that much done. DEREK WILL INSTALL AT LEAST SEVEN PISTONS/RODS NOT ME!

We have to finish wet sanding the car and some of the parts so we have plenty to do. Especially if all our new suspension bushings, gromets, stops, and links show up!

Question: I'm planning on running the oil pump with a drill and an adapter to get it primed and to get oil flowing prior to any attempted start-up. We shouldn't need to pack the pump should we?

LT1Guy and Five7Kid: Thank you for finding so many alternatives!

Sincerely,
Kurt

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Yes, just south of Atlanta, in McDonough (Hwy 155 exit from I-75).
Construction has started; Redraif goes by there every day on the way to work!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That's basically what we did when we put our 350 shortblock together. I showed him how the rings were installed on one piston, he did the rest. We had some trouble with the ring compressor, so I ended up being a little more involved with the stabbing part. We used ARP rod bolts and don't have a stretch gage, so had to torque each rod cap three times per ARP's instructions. Took us two sessions to get it all together (getting the #5 piston in the #3 hole didn't help, either - since it had been balanced, we took it out and put it in the proper cylinder).

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

wow! really? my ex-g/f lives in that area! i go to see her occasionally, gives me a reason to go "visit" more often now!

stenseltizm

iTrader: (1)

That carb is deffinately yours if you still need it. If you found alternatives, let me know cause I can always find a use for it. I offered it to you first cause I really respect what you're doing with your son. Every time I wanted to learn how to do something with my car it was 'your smart enough, you can figure it out'. That type of trial and error always leads to redoing things after you broke something learning the wrong way.

I'll take some pics of the windshield washer motor to see if it's the style that you're looking for. I don't think I'll need it either, so anything else I might be able to find off my z-28 that may be of use to you, let me know and i'll photo it and offer it as well.

once again congratulations on your bonding experience with your son.

kboehringer

stenseltizm,

Please keep it for now. LT1 guy has one that should work. He is only 20+/- miles from us. We will be able to get the Carb he offered, without anyone having to pack-up a carb and mail it. That could be a little bit of a PITA, especially if it has gasoline residue in it. The USPS might not care for that.

The wiper motor should not be too much of a problem to find locally, we just have to look a little wider and harder. Derek and I were discussing the wiper problem. It would be a whole lot easier to mount one now, without the engine in the way, especially if we need to change the mounting holes. We really don't NEED one until the car is capable of being a daily driver. That's still a significant amount of time from now.

We've tossed several items we considered "non-serviceable" but we will have left-overs when we are through with this swap. Let us know if there is anything YOU need.

Sincerely,
Kurt

kdrolt

Apparently, most everyone missed the key quote from your post:


wOW. This has to be one of the best lines I've ever read on TGO. The only thing better than that would be to give her a list of things to buy, and then sending her off (with her tools) to the junkyard. You are one lucky guy.

kboehringer

Well I think so.... You'd be surprised how much she'll do to help out. I think she sees the Z-28 as an opportunity for Derek to come out of his shell a little.

Long ago and far away... when my wife and I were first married (20+ years ago), I had a '78 t/a that she use to change the oil and plugs in when I was on deployment with the U.S. Navy. She actually blew the U-Joints out of the drive shaft and replaced them HERSELF with very limited help from a friend. I'm sure she's not interested in that kind of involvement with the Z-28!

She actually knows the tools in my box better than DEREK. The other day I wanted the valve spring compressor and sent Derek for it... It wasn't until he asked his mom for help that the tool was actually found! LOL LOL

Sincerely,
Kurt

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

There is nothing better than a "garage capable" wife, when your on your back holding up a full tank of gas and the axle is in the way and needs to be lowered, or when your wrestling a long block into the engine bay and you cannot work the engine hoist and move the engine around by yourself. Ask me how I know. I would probably be severly injured at this point if it had not been for my significant other. I need to learn if it looks heavy standing up it is twice that hevy once your on your back or bent over

kboehringer

TGO Friends,

Nancy picked up the short block from the machine shop and everything looks great.... EXCEPT......

Why in the world are our main bearings packaged in two different color packages? There has to be a reason? Anybody have a quick answer?

As soon as we can find some bolts long enough to attach the engine stand we'll be off and running!

Thanks,
Kurt & Derek

kboehringer

TGO Friends,

The attached photo shows our plan for the tranny cross member.

I cut two 1/4" inch CRS plate to 2" x 5" (just small enough to get into the holes provided at the front of the "frame"). I drilled and tapped holes to align with the centers of the holes of the cross member (to allow some adjustment). I welded tig sticks to the upper side to help with fishing them through the frame (we'll leave them on in case we ever need to remove the cross member again).

Once the tranny is in the vehicle, we can drill the holes in the frame and then fish the brackets down to that location.

Hope it works out as well as we planned.... We'll let you know!

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

Lo-tec

One color goes in the block, and one color goes in the main caps. The ones with holes go in the block.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Ditto that!

kboehringer

Lo-Tec,

Thanks for the response. I've been up too long today, I need some sleep! As soon as I opened the plastic, I saw the difference and realized just how stupid my question was.

DUH!

My Son and I will put the block together tomorrow. All I can do at this point is screw something up.

Thanks again for the response!
Sincerely,
Kurt

Jay

iTrader: (2)

I'd wait and mount it after the engine is in place. I've done a few swaps on thirdgens and my experience is having the wiper motor out makes things easier.. also cracked and replaced 2 of them ( 2 different cars ) before I came to that conclusion
If you need to change the holes or what not to make it work, do that with an empty engine bay, and the take it back out before the engine goes in.

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

YES! When dropping my engine in, the wiper motor held us back about 10 minutes......Get it in before you put the engine in, but take it out before you start putting the engine in.

kboehringer

TGO Friends,

We had a great day today with the Z-28/New Engine. . Got a relatively quick start this morning and got the engine taped off and painted. Took a ride over to the J.Yard and LT1Guy's Home (while we waited for the paint to bake in the GA Heat).

The J.Yard provided a WiperMotor that is "Probably" the correct one. I've got to look over my FBody CD yet but I'm guessing the F-Bodies had a minimum of 5 very different wiper motors from '82 - '92! Those who are swapping wires MAY want to grab the wiper motor also when pulling a harness. I can only assume others are cutting and splicing to their current motor. We wanted to avoid that, if at all posible.

In exchange for a Vacuum Advance HEI Distributor.... LT1 Guy (and RedRaif) provided a CC Carb, Computer, and Distributor! Thanks again LT1 and RedRaif!!!!! We really made out on that horse trade...

While Derek and I were at LT1Guy's Home Derek probably spoke all of ten words.... the ride home was another story... "Did you see this"... "did you see that"..... "can we do this".... "can we do that"....Let's just say he (and I) was extremely impressed with RedRaifs Ride.

When we returned home, we installed the crank, rods & pistons.
Tomorrow morning, DEREK will post an overview of what he learned and did today.

TO: Jay & Speedingpenguin,
Thanks for the advice.... We'll make sure it fits (OR MAKE IT FIT ) and then remove it for the install! We've had a heck of a time finding what APPEARS to be the correct unit... would hate to have to do it AGAIN!

Sincerely,
Kurt

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

glad to hear that the shortblock came together without issues, hopefully the rest of the build will be just as easily accomplished!

i hope that i get to see this car when it's done. mine will be done at the end of august as well....maybe all of us Georgians need to meet up somewhere...

flyitlikustolit

i totally agree. my car ***should*** be finished by august (at least the motor will be). maybe we can all take a ride to macon for a shakedown cruise.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

there are alot more cool cars in Warner Robins, which is where i will be living in August, but if we met somewhere around McDonough, that would be fine too...kind of a half-way mark, and there is alot of cool cars in that area too!

kboehringer

TGO Guys,

Yesterday for my dad and I was the day that we started to rebuild the engine for our Z28. When we put the crankshaft in we had to torque the mains in three stages. My dad said we did this so they won't break if they are too loose. After we put the crankshaft into the car, we put the piston rins anto the pistons and started to put them into the engine. We got covered in oil when putting the pistons into the engine, but I don't think it matters because it will be worth it when the engine is started up for the first time.

Derek Boehringer

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

haha
coverd in oil, you say.....
Maybe its just that gave up caring about getting dirty or staying clean, but whenever i work on my car, no matter WHAT i'm doing, i change into my "car" clothes (clothes that have been ruined due to oil and dirt and stuff, which makes up MOST of what i own, LOL)
Thats what I'd do if I were you......NEVER wear "Good" clothes to work on a car, cause if they dont get dirty from just working on the car, at least for me, I always wipe my hands off on my shirt or whatever....LOL


Sounds like ya made a lot of progress, and whatever you have to do to get the car running, it will be worth it when you turn the key for the first time and it fires up. Nothing more pleasing than sitting in the car, watching the tach bounce around, and having your neighbors come rushing out to see WTF is causing their house to shake, LOL
Post pics!

flyitlikustolit

warner robins would be awesome. i have family there, and there are some REALLY awesome cars, like my aunt's 69 camaro. she sold it, but it's still around WR.

flyitlikustolit

and derek: welcome to hot-rodding. gettin dirty is half he fun.

kboehringer

TGO Friends,

As you can tell if you've read the previous posts we're finally making some REAL progress. However we may be headed for the hardest part of the project.... Making the Z-28 run properly. It has not been mentioned in this thread, but we've been looking around the whole TGO site and saw the knock sensor mentioned in several engine swap threads. Each thread mentioned it should be changed....

Do we need to change the sensor, the ESC or BOTH?
It would seem that we only need to change the sensor (left side of photo). Can anyone confirm? We haven't been able to find a ThirdGen with a 350 engine they don't last long... We'll have to check other cars with 350's or buy one from GM.

Speedingpenguin,
Derek and I are looking forward to the first fire up...But we have a District Court Judge living next door..... Therefore, no running without the entire exhaust system in place and functional.... SHUCKS!

No pics from today........ The boys had a baseball game and we spent the available time cleaning up the tools/mess from yesterday while trying to figure out how to mount the new wiper motor. We finally have the correct Wiper Motor!

Sincerely,
Kurt

P.S. We hope everybody had a great father's day!

kboehringer

Georgia & Vicinity TGO Friends,
There is a Camaro & Firebird club in McDonough (http://www.atlantacfa.com/). We believe they meet the second Saturday of each month. Their meeting place is almost directly across the street from the New Summit Racing Place being constructed. We've yet to make one of their meetings but hope to get there for one of them soon.
Depending on how well this Z-28 goes maybe we'll have a mini Third Gen Event at our house in Late August?
Sincerely,
Kurt

kboehringer

TGO Friends,

The short-block is pretty hard to turn over. We rotated the engine continually during the assembly process, used assembly lube, and TOO much oil (if that's that's possible). We torqued each bolt properly using a recently calibrated torque wrench. The crank turned quite easily but as each piston was added the friction became harder to overcome. We were using the harmonic balancer/crank bolt and I became concerned we'd snap that sucker off in the crank so we're now turning it with the balancer. We can turn it by hand but it takes a little muscle.....

Should I be concerned?
Sincerely,
Kurt

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

ya got plugs in the engine yet? That'll do it for sure (think about it, all that compression, of course its gonna be hard to turn!)
Even without the plugs my engine was hard to rotate.......not impossible, but it took some muscle, and i didnt even bother with the bolt.....but i dont see why you'd be putting the engine at risk by using it, as long as you use the correct size socket and dont use a 12 pt, cause that WILL strip it pretty quickly.....
As long as you can turn it with your hands you're probably OK....

kboehringer

SpeedingPenguin,
It's still a short-block (without heads until Wednesday) so plugs are not a factor. It's not BINDING it just pretty tough to turn....All those new bearings, rings, pistons....

Derek's a pretty big kid (over 200lbs) and when he was pushing on that wrench I was just waiting for...........
SNAP! Uh-OH!

The crank/balancer bolt is a decent hardened bolt. However, the torque spec on it is only "60 ft.-lbs". We had an extra one from the other engine, so I tossed the one we were using just in case it was stretched beyond spec. Ever try to drill and easy-out a hardened bolt? Not something we want to do!

Sincerely,
Kurt

firehawkslplus

I think what your feeling is the drag of the new rings on freshly honed cylinders. That's where most of the internal drag comes from. I agree that if you can hand crank it your, still good to go.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I would not be concerned about the friction yet. What pistons did you use? The tolereances may be tight. I personally would get some powder lube or STP and put a little in each cylinder before assembling the heads to the block. On start up it should help if there are any rough spots. My engine was the same way. I coated the walls with a powder I read about in Hot Rod. I forget the name, but when I check my compression the reading of the cylinders are less than 1% of each other.

I had an idea on the trans mount blocks you made. I would drill a small hole between the two mounting holes. Once you have the block mounted in place, I would use the small hole you drilled to weld the mounting blocks to the body. Just a thought.

kboehringer

DaveCS1,

The pistons are HYPERs .30 over (NOT big name aftermarket brand). I had considered a third bolt but realized it's head would get in the way....hadn't thought about welding through the frame.... Good Idea..... We'll use it!

Know anything about the knock sensor question?

Sincerely,
Kurt

Lo-tec

From what I recall, the knock sensor and module are paired together. Different years took a different sensor and corresponding module, which was tuned to a specific engine. Post the part #'s on yours, and I can verify if they at least "go together". FWIW, when I dropped the first 350 in my 84, I just reused what was on the original 305 L69 motor w/out any problems.

Silver_Panther

Hey just another 82 Z28 owner chiming in.. You may have mentioned this in a previous post.. But are you doing any work to the transmission or swapping to a new one? These things originally came with little TH-200C 3 speed auto's (which I'm still currently using.. :P). They don't like very much horsepower. If you can find a 700-R4 transmission then you could check out www.crossmembers.com for the crossmember. (Cant use a crossmember out of a 700-R4 equipped camaro because in 82 the mounting holes were different. )

Also are you taking all the wiring out? If so could I ask you to take LOTS of pictures? I've been wanting to take all the crossfire BS wiring out but every time I feel like starting on it I get scared as soon as I pop the hood and see that big bundled mess sittin there. lol

kboehringer

Lo-Tec,
If they're paired.... We're Screwed because the knock sensor came from an '86 Z-28 305 and the Module came from an '87 Firebird 305 (Since the engines were the same and the wires were all the same color I thought we'd be ). I'll get the numbers off them this evening, maybe they'll still be compatible with each other.

Silver_Panther,
You will find information about the swap we're doing if you make a quick review of the previous pages of this thread. I won't try to reiterate everything that the TGO Guys have been helping us with over the last six months but........

Changing the wiring is not as big of a project as you might think. There are only a few major strands to remove (see a previous post on this thread). My Son and I were scared at first... but we had NO OPTION as it was severely damaged. It wasn't difficult.

The tranny is a TH700R4 - Probably the only good thing a previous owner added to this car although he added it poorly! The top of this page has some info on what we are doing to Make it work.

Thanks for the responses.
Sincerely,
Kurt

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

If the knock sensor from my 87 TA will help, let me know...not going to need it anymore.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I got the parts provided in the HO 350 Camaro Conversion Kit (ZZ4 engine): Sensor 10456288, module 16128261.

I've never heard that they're paired, just that they need to be for the same size engine. But, I don't hear everything.

kboehringer

Lo-Tec,
Here are the #'s that are on the items
KNOCK SENSOR
DR562 8295
ESC MODULE
GM 16052391 7180
HKM 882391

These did not come together on the same car. Maybe they can go together?

Thank you very much for your help.

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

kboehringer

TGO Friends,

We're kinda stuck waiting for the heads to be finished and for the Cam to arrive from JEG's. We've done all we can do for now. We've been double checking all of the parts and spent a good two hours reading the Haynes Manual together.

Here's a bit of a staged photo.... You guys were right BLACK was definately the way to go for the motor!

Sincerely,
Kurt

flyitlikustolit

Damn what a pretty sight I just got my crank (383 stroker) and my SFI balancer today. this friday it's pistons, rods, and a flexplate. Black looks awesome, and will really look stunning in the gold engine bay. I'm really excited, as this means you guys will be cranking soon.... that's when it's all worthwhile.

btw...... did you try getting the modules you need from GM?

kboehringer

flyitlikustolit,
The guys were exactly right about the black and gold. Should look very good once it's inside. We spent a couple hours grinding & sanding down some of the casting imprefections on the outside of the heads and the outside of the block. They're actually a good bit smoother than what the factory provided.

I didn't get a chance to call GM today. But since Five7kid provided the part numbers the local Dealer should be able to provide price and availability info rather easily. If I know GM I guess the knock sensor is at least $50 and the module is probably $100 (hope we don't have to go that route!).

Sincerely,
Kurt

Silver_Panther

Alright just got through reading most everything in this thread.. Wow that was a lot of reading....

I don't mean to side track your thread or anything.. But do you by any chance have pics of the removal of the wiring harness? Or could maybe take a pic of the harness spread out on the ground with it sort of routed how it was in the car.. This would be an ENORMOUS help for me. I've been wanting to get this clutter out of it for so long..

Its great to read through a thread such as this one seeing father and son bring back to life an old beast of a car..

I've been hoping to make a trip down to Florida the first or second week of July.. Not real sure if its gonna happen yet or not. The car has been running pretty good but I dunno if I trust it enough for a 3000 mile round trip yet.. If I do go I'll have to check out some of the J. Yards that seemed to be packed with camaros.. The ones around here only have a couple 3rd gens each..

Lo-tec

It's all coming back. You have module # 16126761 and sensor # 10456287. This is the setup for a 305. The #'s five7 posted are from the ZZ4 kit, which is from an 87-89 350 TPI setup. Different sensor, different module. I personally would run what you have. I did it in my car and it worked. If not, you can swap it later. It's not like the computer runs off the knock sensor all the time, it's more of a safety thing like if you get some bad gas or something.