Wow, I'm really excited about this. A good friend of mine bought a 1982 Trans Am just to get the carbed 305 and TH200 tranny out of it. The rest of the car, he intended to discard.

I asked for it and he agreed to let me have it. It has a clean title, and because we've always operated on the barter system, I am giving him an extra turbocharger I have in my garage. Pretty good trade, I think.

I daily drive my IROC-Z Camaro, and I love this generation of cars. They are so tight, and so excellent looking. So getting a T/A of the same generation is really cool. Especially for the price!

Now the details...The car will need some work. It was originally red and had a cheapo paint job to change it to blue, but the door jams and engine bay are still red. (How tacky is that?)
There isn't any rust, but one door skin needs to be replaced. I'm trained in bodywork, so that isn't an issue with me. I'll just take it down to the shop and get it back to red.

The reason I'm posting here is because I'm looking for cool engine swap ideas. There's no way a 305 is going back in there, and because I want to daily drive this in the next couple of years, I want it to be a healthy small block, but not a big block. I couldn't afford the gas.
So bring on the suggestions.

The 355 in my IROC is so strong, that I would definitely jump for a 350. I'd like to keep it carbureted. In fact, I'm thinking about making it a tri-power, to kind of tie back to the early Pontiac days when tri-power 389's were in the GTO's. Edelbrock makes a nice tripower intake.
Another idea I was thinking about was forgoing the tri-power in favor of some kind of forced induction. Something like a cool 327 with a 144 supercharger on it, and a cowl induction hood for the cold air.
But I would consider a 400 too. Although that's getting kind of big in displacement for a daily driver. Even a Pontiac 400 would be kind of cool.

As far as transmissions go, I want a stick shift. A nice Muncie would be fine. I don't think a T-5 would last very long with a healthy small block, but Muncies can take just about anything a small block can throw at them. Although I wouldn't turn down a good 6 speed or Richmond 5 speed if I got a deal on one of those either.

The tacky blue paint will be restored back to red. I might even do some custom flamed paint job, where the flames become a big firebird.

But right now, I'm thrilled at getting a beautiful 1982 Trans Am basically for free.
What would you guys do for an engine swap? In two more years, this car will qualify for classic plates, so I won't need to pass emissions anymore in Colorado.

 

I'd like to see a 3.8 Turbo, but with a 6-speed. Great on gas, much lighter than a 350... and being that this engine came in the 89 TTA, it's street legal.

Either this, or an LS1 swap...

 

Big block and 4-speed

 

A big block would be sweet in an '82 T/A. But I already have a 427 big block and a Muncie close ratio 4-speed in my '68 Corvette. That would be too much like my other car.

I'm really leaning towards small displacement with forced induction this time. The Buick turbo 3.8 is a nice idea, if I can find one. They're getting kinda rare.

A Pontiac 455 would be super cool. Or a 421 or 400 even. But non-Chevy's are more expensive to rebuild.

Keep the ideas coming. This is

 

if its a daily i wouldnt go carbed. maybe a nicely built EFI SBC of some sort. have you thought about an lt1 or ls1 swap? those would both offer IMO superior performance to a big block and over double the gam mileage and overall driveability.

if you are set on a carb, there are carb intakes for the the lt1 and ls1 so that would be cool too.

 

You have to be careful with the statement that the LT1/LT4 has superior performance over the big block. It has superior performance over some of the MILDER big blocks. The actual power level of the top big block performers in the 70's was commonly lied about by the American companies. There was a big insurance crack down in the early 70's which forced the little white lies.

For example, the L-88 427 was supposed to make 430 hp at 5000 rpm, inferior to the 435 horse tri-carb 427. This despite 12.5:1 compression compared to 11.25:1, respectively. But who says 5000 rpm was the peak horsepower? Modern estimates put the power more like 585 hp @ 6500 and 535 hp @ 6000, respectively. Not even the vaunted LS-1 or LS-6 engines can quite produce that level.

The old LS-6 engine was a hot 454, but it lost its cookies after the first year, as compression started dropping. The LS-7 454 was put in a test Corvette, and even made the order sheets at the dealerships, but the plug was pulled on that too. That would have topped even the L-88 in performance.
L-88 Corvettes were capable of factory 11 second quarter miles. One with modifications on the car pulled a 10 second quarter.
There aren't any factory cars today anywhere in the world (even at Ferarri) that are making cars capable of what the old top guns could do right off the showroom floor.

BUT...basically, you are right. Put some modern technology into a small block (forced induction not-withstanding), and I can blow away MOST of the old big blocks, if not the top gun big blocks.

An LT-1 based twin turbo 350 or 383 would probably make better than 500 or even 600 horsepower, and that would exceed even the L-88 actually. Especially in a 2800 pound 1982 Trans Am!
I don't know if I want quite that level of performance, but I would like better than 400 horsepower. In a 2800 pound car, that would be incredible!

FI would be nice, but I've got nothing against carburetors. Properly tuned, a carb is an ingenious device that makes a lot of power for very little money. It just depends on my budget. Carburetion for now, maybe a fuelie down the road.

Thanks! That was a good post, it got my juices flowing.

 

Sounds like your buddy kept the worst part! Redraif got her 82 TA in a similar way...the guy had already pulled the engine and trans for his 83 Z28, and his landlord told him it had to go! He signed over the title,with no $$ changing hands. It was originally blue, but is going back GM Pewter with a 383 LT1. Hopefully with a 6 speed and 4.11s!

 

i forgot to add the part about an lt1/ls1 would best a big block hp wise but also have better driveability. i dunno about you but i wouldnt want to daily drive or take a trip in an L-88 or the likes (rarity not withstanding of course) whereas a cammed or even heads and cam ls1 can make close to 500rwhp NA and still have some decent streetability. even at 450rwhp which is starting to become the "norm" for a h/c m6 ls1 is about 560 at the crank (which gives us a little bit more fair of a comparison between old and new).

i myself dont care for carbs because the cars that interest me the most never had them. im not a fan of the older 3rd gens or anything like that so to me it doesnt make sense to convert from EFI (which IMO is superior anyway) to carb. another benefit of EFI is the amount of sensors it needs. its a benefit because if you know what you are doing they will tell you everything you need to know about your engine. whereas i doubt youll have a knock sensor or an o2 sensor ect with a carb.

 

True. But to the true mechanic, an ECM is not really needed to decipher any idle mixture, and/or ignition problems. It becomes second nature, you just know, after awhile...

But I see what you're saying. EFI has it's benefit's over a carb, but a carb also has it's benefit's over EFI. It's obviously the owner's preference, and if you prefer EFI, then go for it!

 

Actually, either is fine with me. Honestly, if I found a good TPI with computer and harness at a swap meet cheap, I'd get it. It's a really decent street EFI that makes good torque. It's not perfect, it doesn't like to rev too high.

But I'm thinking an EFI system like Accel's or Holley's that converts a single plane into port fuel injection might work the best for the money.
Actually, if I wanted to put a 144 roots blower on top, it wouldn't be hard to convert the 144's intake manifold to port fuel injection either. Then the throttlebody would sit on top of the supercharger just like a carb would. The only difference would be the size injectors and the PROM mapping. That would be another advantage to getting the converted single plane type FI.
Besides that, I like where the TB sits, right on top of the engine, so that I could use a nice Harwood cowl induction scoop for the cold air intake.

You are right about the streetability issue of the L-88. I originally built my 427 (Actually 433 ci...0.030" overbored) to L-88 type performance. Although I didn't get the 12.5:1 pistons and use a solid cam, I did get the 11.25:1 pistons and used a solid roller cam. The Corvette weighed in at 3220 pounds WITH the big block in place and all the fluids, and half a tank of gas. It had 3.36 gears and an M-21 Muncie close ratio 4-speed.
That sucker was FAST. It was the quickest car I had ever driven. But the thing is, the cam wasn't in its power band until 3500 rpm, and with a 3.36 rear end, not only did it feel lazy off the line, but 4th gear was completely useless unless you were going over 80 on the highway. Streetability really sucked with this engine, it was very hard to drive around town, and the open 4" sidepipe exhaust made it at best a 45 minute car.
The IROC I can drive every day and it is a pleasure to cruise in.

Anyway, I know it's off topic a little, but to cap off the Vette story, the engine only lasted a few hundred miles. The shortblock was a crate motor and there was a piece of wood stuck in the oil journal from the oil pump, so that even though my gauge read normal oil pressure, the bearings weren't getting much oil. I have to rebuild the engine, and I'm getting a milder solid roller cam and switching to an RPM Air Gap intake. I'll lose some top end power but hopefully will gain streetability.

 

How about something really different? http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/...ate-Engine.htm

Do you have to go through emissions testing? Next year an '82 will be eligible for 5-year collector plates, and no emissions testing is required as long as you keep the plates current. However, you have to have current emissions when you get the plates, and the only emissions-legal system is either computer-controlled carb or EFI from a passenger car 1982-later.

 

Actually yes, I have to get the emissions test. It still has the 305, so I'm thinking since my friend is going to take the 305 out of it anyway to stick it in some S-10 truck, I'll have him sign over the title to me just before he pulls the motor, and then get it emissions tested. In two years, I can transfer over to the classic plates and put any engine I want in it. That might be the way to do it.

You and I apparently don't live too far apart. I'm over in Morrison.
Do you get to Bandemere very often?

That's a good engine, but I'd really kinda like a small block V8 in it. Thanks for the suggestion.

If I got a crate motor, GMPP sells a 330 horse Vortec 350 with only 9.1:1 compression. $2400. Not a bad deal at all. And with a low enough compression ratio that I could run 5 or 6 pounds of boost on it down the road.

The only deal that would top that is if I find a low mileage truck 350 in a salvage yard for $500 bucks.

 

Yes, I get to Bandimere a lot. The past few years I've run the Friday ET & Club Clash series, and Saturday ET series. Last year wasn't exactly stellar there, just good enough to get to the Divisional race, after which things went dream-like. This year I'm only running the Friday night ET (Street) series - My son is in his last couple of years in high school, so I need to spend more time involved with what he's doing, and less on just what I'm doing - at least for now. We're planning on getting the 350 in the Camaro this spring/summer so he can run it in the High School class Friday nights at Bandimere when he gets his license.

The 330 HP 350 HO is a popular swap engine. Plenty of power, decent price. One guy out at Bandimere that I talk to alot has one with the Edelbrock EFI system on it in his '70 Nova. Runs well, he drives it to the track (even drove it to Topeka for the Division V finals in 2002). Of course, it's going to take a lot more than $2400 to get it running in your car (intake manifold, for instance).

Your plan of getting the emissions test while the current engine is in there is a good one.

 

Good pick up man.That will be one swwet bird

My car is an 82 also and does California have this too

 

From what I understand, California is by far the most draconian in their smog laws. I think they do have a classic plate system, but it keeps getting repealed every few years in the state senate. You guys have some real car haters in that state's government.

One guy I used to keep in contact with lost the original engine in his Corvette and apparently, from what he understood, could not put a replacement engine in it if it was not date coded exactly correctly and was not the exact type of engine being put back in. Wow, so you blow your motor and can't put anything but a 1982 engine back in it, and even then ONLY if it's another 305?
I'd be moving to another state with laws like that!
But despite that, California has always had a very strong hotrodder movement. And you can't tell me a 1932 Ford Model A MUST have a flathead 4 cylinder in it to get classic plates.
So you guys must have some classic plate laws there as well.
I'd check your local DOT licensing office if I were you.

Five7kid, I got my son involved in going to Bandemere with me in his high school years, and we still share that strong bond, even though he's just left last year and gone into the Navy. I would encourage having him involved in your Friday night drag racing...I'm sure he'd love it.
If you send me an instant message next time you or your club is heading to Bandemere, I live 2 miles away and have Fridays off, so I'd love to come out and meet you.

A 350 swap seems to be the natural engine for these 3rd gens. They're cheap to build, and are far more powerful than the 305's with a minimum of upgrades. If you want to see how I did the dual exhaust in my IROC, I'd be happy to show you. As with anything, these cars respond very well to hotrodder tricks.

A friend of mine that has a weird thing with Maseratis thinks by putting a 350 in my T/A, I'm just building another "bellybutton" car. Okeedokee. I think he's just jealous that I'll stomp his ars with a 350 in that car.

 

He's been coming out with me for several years, but has activities of his own (Westernaires) that conflicts on Saturdays. I've been strongly encouraged by the spousal unit to be there instead of Bandimere on Saturdays.

I'll be there this Friday, weather permitting. I race the '57, not the Camaro. Here's their schedule for the series I'll be doing this year http://www.bandimere.com/events/even...hp?eventID=261 .

Of course, the 305 responds well, too. Just not as much as a 350 will to the same mods.

California has a "motor change" process you can go through. Typically, an engine replacement, such as a dealer "service engine", won't cause any trouble as long as it is intended for your year/chassis/induction system, etc. But, if you go from say a CC carb 305 to LS1 (or any other later passenger car system), you take it to the referee, who verifies you have all of the proper equipment for that year/type engine, and applies a new barcode for future smog test/inspection use. The cut-off used to be 1966 model years and earlier not needing annual smog, not sure what it is now (I thought I heard 1975 someplace). When I moved to San Diego in 1986, I had to have the '57 smogged, for pete's sake - but, at least it was just once (and only because I was moving into the state). I've never heard of any other type of exemption from the annual test in California.

 

I know when I registered my '52 pick up truck last year, I didn't need any emissions test. I guess '59 and earlier here don't need one at all. That's what I think was the cut off.

I look forward to meeting you at Bandemere this Friday then. The only thing I've got going on this Friday is a brake job and caliper change on my IROC, which I'll probably have to do in the garage.

If I do come out to Bandemere this Friday, I'll be wearing a black baseball cap with red flames on the bill. My name is Tony. I'll be looking for a '57 Chevy. Thanks for the schedule.

 

Weather forecast doesn't look too favorable. But, if it happens, I usually try to pit at the south end, toward the hill. Here's what to look for http://www.nhra.com/2004/events/race...an/Photo18.htm

 

Well, I went to see the Trans Am yesterday. It's fairly sound. It needs a door to avoid excessive bodywork to repair the caved in door. And minor body work on a panel the guy changed. It has those holes for the side moulding that I hate so much, so all those holes have to be welded closed and smoothed. The interior is pretty well rotted. The carpet and upholstery is crap. I'll probably keep the rear seat with new upholstery, and change the front seats entirely. Something along the lines of Recaro or a more affordable alternative. The center console needs replacing, it's pretty sorry. And no way is that OEM 85 mph speedo and 5500 rpm tach staying in there!

Except for a spot on the roof that is rusted, there seems to be no rust on this car. It's in better shape than my IROC was in.
Maybe I'll throw a sunroof on it, rather than repair that rusty area.

It doesn't have the great GTA or IROC-Z suspension and 16" wheels. So it's decision time on what to do there. Actually, some older PMD Rallye II wheels might look pretty cool on this car. Even though they're 15". I could get gigantic 15x10" rear wheels and put some big rubber in the back, and make this a muscle car. That 2.73 10-bolt rear end is outa there! Maybe I'll stick the BOP 10-bolt out of my Firebird in it. It has 3.08 gears with a posi, but I can change it to 3.23 gearing. It was strong enough to handle a 455's torque, so I'm sure it would be fine behind a supercharged 350.

All that's left to decide on is the transmission. I could go with a 700R4 like the IROC has, but I'd really rather make this one a stick shift. Maybe a Muncie. Better yet, a Richmond 5-speed transmission. First gear is really steep on those, steeper than a 700R4. 5th is 1:1, so I could even leave the BOP a 3.08 instead of spending extra on a steeper rear gear and an overdrive. That would be the more economical way to build this thing.

The car was originally red, so it's going back to red. I think I'll personally paint it myself and then air brush a cool flaming firebird on the hood. Might even go with a 3 1/2" cowl induction scoop.

Is this cool or what?

 

You can get 500-600 HP out of an LT or LS based engine without forced induction or nitrous. There are a couple of LS1's running around Knoxville that are putting 460 at the wheels without a tune on the car what so ever. And unless you are going to gut the car and put a fiberglass front end on it, Trans Am's weight a whole lot more than 2800 pounds. It's closer to 3800

 

I like carb setups, but now days, the idle mixture changing and ignition problems are mostly solved with a laptop plugged into the ALDL port to see what's going on.

On a carb car, to pick up extra HP you have to swap the carb, or put a bigger distributor in, or swap the intake etc etc, with an EFI car (94 or newer TA and Z28), I have seen people pick up 60hp with a few keystrokes during dyno tunes to get the best performance changing the way the PCM is managing the system, and not even have to burn a chip.

 

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Quote:
"You can get 500-600 HP out of an LT or LS based engine without forced induction or nitrous. There are a couple of LS1's running around Knoxville that are putting 460 at the wheels without a tune on the car what so ever. And unless you are going to gut the car and put a fiberglass front end on it, Trans Am's weight a whole lot more than 2800 pounds. It's closer to 3800
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Not according to all the literature I'm reading. The first year for the third gen F-body did not weigh much at all. For beginners, it started out weighing at least 500 pounds less than the 1981 model it replaced. That's huge.

500 pounds heavier, the 70's Trans Ams were the quickest machines on the road with the 455's torque. They were factory 13 second cars with a few minor add-ons such as headers and slicks. And that with an 8:1 compression motor!!!

Geeze, come to think of it, a comparitively light weight third gen Trans Am would be ridiculously quick with a 455 properly rebuilt and higher compression. For that matter, drop a couple hundred pounds off of what a 455 would weigh and throw an LS-based late model 350 in it, and it really would be a very quick car, normally aspirated as you mentioned.

LS-1 and LS-6 engined cars do not do so well at Colorado's high altitude. I know of Z06 Corvettes that can't get out of 14 seconds and aren't faster than about 102 mph at Bandemere. They struggle up here, like everything else does.
At our altitude, forced induction makes a lot of sense. Even a low-tech roots supercharger on a pushrod motor with wedge smog heads would probably be quicker than an LS-6 engined GTO or Z06.

Nevertheless, free is a good price. I'm going to have a lot of fun building a musclecar out of this Trans Am. And the engine will have more to do with what good deal I find than anything else. If I score an LS-1 for $600 bucks at a salvage yard, then that will be the motor. If I find a cheap 400, that'll be it. Same with a 350 or 327. And if I can get away with it, I'll run a small 144 or 174 blower on top.

In fact, a shaker scoop might look awfully cool on an '82 T/A. If I have enough space under the hood with a blower!

 

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"On a carb car, to pick up extra HP you have to swap the carb, or put a bigger distributor in, or swap the intake etc etc, with an EFI car (94 or newer TA and Z28), I have seen people pick up 60hp with a few keystrokes during dyno tunes to get the best performance changing the way the PCM is managing the system, and not even have to burn a chip."
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True, but the entry fee to fuel inject is still much higher than a carb. The best carbs are still well under a grand, INCLUDING the intake to go on it. It's true you have to do manual changes everytime you change altitude, and in an extremely vertically variable state like Colorado, EFI makes a lot of sense. But it's still cheaper to go through the hassle of retuning a carb, or even having a second carb pre-tuned to a different altitude, than it is to even get into an entry-level EFI system.
For a lot of us, money talks. And when it means you can get EFI or get that nice new interior with Recaro seats and Autometer gauges and high-tech stereo system, I think a lot of us car crafters with limited budgets tend to try to make our money go a little farther...with EFI as an eventual goal.

My personal choice would be an Accel or Edelbrock EFI on top of the engine like in a carbureted configuration, so that you could make better use of a traditional hood scoop for cold air. And something like that could be easily adapted to a supercharger intake and still be able to use the scoop.

So EFI for me is a "someday" proposition.

 

Hey, missed you at Bandimere! The 29th was rain/snowed out, so next chance was the 13th. Now not until June 3rd.

My Camaro weighs around 3450 with me, 1/4 tank of gas, and trunk empty.

 

Hey sorry about that. I was a no show on the 13th because I was in the paint booth painting my custom Corvette hood that I built myself. I was very busy all weekend color sanding it to perfection. Wow, you should see it.

Okay, June 3rd it is. I'll plan to be there. What time does it start? I might be racing my IROC myself this Wednesday. My friends are begging me to join them. I'll be watching them race, but if they twist my arm and I have enough time before I have to rush to work at 10:30, I might get a run in.

My fearless prediction is 14.3 seconds at 101.5 mph, uncorrected, at Bandemere's 5800 foot ASL. I think I'll have a mediocre 2 second 60 foot time, give or take a tenth. I'm running street tires.
Probably in the 13's at lower altitude.

I get Fridays off, so what time June 3rd?

 

Gates open at 4:00 p.m., time trials start at 4:30. There's usually a pretty good crowd at the gate by the time they open, I try to get in line early enough to make the call to the staging lanes for the first TT (I run Street ET, the first in the rotation).

It took me from 1998 to 2003 to get the 57's 60' below 2.0 sec. Typically 1.90's now, occasionally dips to 1.88 with good air and traction. The Camaro runs mid-2.3's in its current configuration. Should dip down some with the 350. Any further improvements would require more stall, gear, and tire.