Im looking at picking up a 502 block bored out to 540. hooker swap headers say 454 next to them in summit, but it doesnt say anything for a 502. would lemons headers or patriot headers work better that the hooker header for the 502 swap/ or is the 502 block too big?

 

The hooker swap headers will fit but they're small even for a 454. The 1-7/8" primary tubes with 3" collectors are only good for a 454 mild street engine.

My 540 race engine has Ed Quay headers. 2-1/4" primary tubes with 4" collectors.

The hooker swap headers are the cheapest out of any third gen BBC header. Expect to pay about $1000 for a good set of large tube headers.

 

WOW! Stephen just saw that video of your run . You never got traction.

 

Ed Quay rules!!!!!

 

that was not known on my part, thanx for the hooker info. and heads up on sanderson headers? i looked at lemons headers website and it looked like they dont carry bbc headers for thirdgens anymore. does ed quay have a website?

 

www.edquay.com

 

What makes you say that? My driver side tire was rubbing on the back of the fender causing most of that smoke. Cut a deep groove in the tread. On that run I had a 1.436 60' time. The best I managed all year was 3 passes with 1.40x 60' times.

Those tires are MT 29.5 x 10.5 but if you put a ruler across the tread, they're only 10" wide. My new tires are 32 x 14 and a ruler across the tread is 14".

 

hey stephen, on the ed quay site it says the bbc headers you were talking about wont work with a stock frame. did yo have to do any modifications to use those headers?

 

Even the small hooker swap headers required a bit of tin beating to fit didnt they?

I would expect quite a bit of beating for even bigger headers!

 

A few. My engine sits lower than stock since I use a front motor plate. I have it pushed back as far as the headers would allow. To get it to sit lower, I flipped the steering center link over to drop the engine down as far as it would go. I have a tubular k-member but that still doesn't help the fit. The raised exhaust ports on the heads add even more problems. If the engine sat in the stock location, the collectors wouldn't fit under the floor.

The driver side was the best fit although I had to relocate the steering column up and outward to clear the tubes. The passenger side was worse. Even with a mini starter, on tube had to be dented to fit under the starter. I can't pull the starter off without taking off the headers first. Another tube had to be strategically dented to go around a tube on the k-member. With the 4" collectors, part of the front subframe has been notched for them to pass by. This is probably what Ed Quay is talking about. The engine is also pushed back as far as it will go. I'd like to move it back about another 6" but the headers are now wedged between the frame rails preventing any more repositioning to the rear. The third gen front frame rails taper inward behind the engine which is why it's so hard to install big tube headers.

You'll never get a direct fit, no modifications required, header for a BBC in a third gen. There's just too many variables. The best fitting headers are a set that are custom made to fit your application. Building a set of headers can cost about as much as an off the shelf set since you'll never get it right the first time but when they're done, they'll fit the best.

I really need to get some new pics. I have pics of my engine through many transformations back from 2000.

 

Man those things are low in the chassis.... I just got my Ed Quays fitted up and the collectors are between the frame rails and about a good 1/3 of the 4 inch collector is not visible from the side. Your motor has to be lower than 1 inch from stock. I have good ground clearance but both ends of the collectors run into the frame as the rails "Y" together. I`ll get a picture once I get`em in there again for comparison sake. Oh and everything that Stephen had to do I had to also except he didn`t mention the tube running across the dipstick outlet.

 

I'm guessing my engine is about 2-3" lower than stock. When I was running open headers, the ends of the collectors rubbed on the ground taking the car in and out of the garage. With the exhaust system, the collectors were cut shorter and the elbows attached to bring the exhaust up and outward to the rockers. With the car sitting on the ground, there's about 4" of clearance to the exhaust and they don't catch on anything including loading the car on the trailer. The mufflers are mounted high up against the rockers. They can be seen in the sig picture.

 

the only thing i see that would be important is the steering relocation. how far up and over did you shift it? do you think the quat k member would make a difference? how much of a notch did you cut into the frame/ sorry for so many questions.

 

The tubular k-member helped with clearance but not as much as I wanted. Mine doesn't have engine mounts on it since I use a front motor plate.

I don't have any pictures of the notched frame. I just cut the corner off so the collector would pass. You cut as required.

As for the steering shaft relocation, my steering shaft is anything from stock. The upper part is just a shaft through some support bearings. The lower section is from a 3rd gen with Astro van u-joints. Where the shaft goes through the firewall, I cut out a hole and repositioned the bulkhead shaft bearing I use up and away from the factory location. This was enough to clear the header tubes. A typical race car steering shaft goes straight forward from the steering wheel to the bulkhead instead of downward like a production column. I never got around to doing that kind of modification since that would also mean relocating the master cylinder.

When I was using Merlin cast iron oval port heads and Hooker Supercomp headers, I never had such a tight fit. Amazing what going from 1-7/8" to 2-1/4" primary tubes can do for clearance. If you're building a street car or a street/strip, the Hooker swap headers will probably be the best way to go. If it's an all out race car, bigger and more expensive headers should be used.

 

I guess I should have said something about this the first time. A 540 is a 4.500" bore with a 4.250" stroke. A 502 is actually a 4.980 bore but can be cleaned up to 4.500 and it only has a 4" stroke. To make a 540, you need a stroker crank. My Dart Big M block can be easily bored out to 4.620 and still have 1/4" thick cylinder walls. A factory 502 block can't go that far out.

It's possible to go bigger than 540 (555 or 565) but normally any engine bigger than that is a tall deck block and uses a 4.500" stroke crank. 572, 632 etc.

Big engines need bigger parts. Large tube headers are required as is a large intake/carb system. That's why I use a tunnel ram with two 850's on it. My heads are actually a little on the small size for a 540. The ports are only 310's. 345's would be better. A monster big block can use some 400's.

 

And i thought the 1 5/8 longtubes on a smallblock sucked!!!

Those are TIGHT

Im not too familiar with a BB's head configuration but that actually looks like a really easy setup to change plugs on though!

 

thanx for the bore info, didnt know that. see, im slighty copying this old setup in one of my older hotrod mags thats based on a 580ci donovan block. i figured 540ci is the closest i can get to that displacement without going seriously broke. in summit they sell 540ci stroker kits complete so that was what i was gonna go with. the original set up used big chief intake/heads and the cam is spec'd at 0.834/0.789 lift and 209/308 degrees duration at 0.0050. i just realized the lobe separation wasnt given...crap. well its a mechanical roller too. actual motor put on 980hp/760tq N/A. i figured to use afr heads and a victor intake instead of the chief combo. carb was 1450 cfm, id used a 1250. any imput? its either build this or a blown sbc.

 

call Ed Quay they make them for stock chassis cars too. Their website is misleading plus their pricing is so "right" why would you pay over $1000.00 for a set of headers. Make sure you call them!

 

Big Chief heads are called spread bore heads. The intake and exhaust ports are symmetrical. The only thing similar to a BBC head is the bolt pattern. Intake, exhaust, valve train are all different for big Chief heads. They're also normally designed for blocks with a 5" bore spacing which won't be any factory style block. That's why they got the big cubic inches. It probably has 4.75" bores in the Donovan block.

It doesn't take much to build a 800-1000 hp BBC. Cubic inches really help but good heads and a good cam grind can easily do it.

I don't know how good the AFR BBC heads are. Some of the bigger names for BBC heads are Canfield, Brodix, Dart. If price was no object, there's some very good heads out there. Brodix is probably the best choice for heads.

 

word, thanx for the input. i dont know much about bbc, mostly just small block stuff. summit carries cnc'd BB2-xtra by brodix and cnc'd pro1 aluminum darts. stock wise will they handle a cam like the one i described or would the springs have to be changed to accomodate lift? my goal mainly is average/normal street/strip use if youre wondering, but may switch it to strip only.

 

Lemons still makes headers for 3rd gens. I asked about what he makes when he built the set for my car. He has all of the jigs.

While my set was custom built and for a small block. They came out fantastic. No custom header is inexpensive but then you get what you pay for.

IMO if I was to get another set of headers I would look at Lemons first. Heck I towed my car past four companies that could build headers to go to Dan's shop. I could have gone to one that was 10 minutes away (Sanderson) not the 6 hours that I drove just to drop off my car.