It seems like everyone who has a V6 bird wants a V8.

Our 85 2.8 V6 Firebird has been in the family since new, and we have kept it up very nicely, even treating it to a new paint job a couple of years ago. We don't mind having a V-6 at all.

But our beloved is currently in the shop because it is sluggish and weaker feeling than usual. We recently had all manner of seals and gaskets replaced, and replaced the distributor and wires, etc at the same time. Our Cadillac dealer works on this car and they cleaned the injectors. The said the was a bulletin about revised injectors and prom update, but they are not available anymore. They are still figuring out what they can do.

While I was there, one of the tech's joked about a V8 swap, but I mentioned that it would be interesting to swap out one of the new direct injection V6's (and tranny) from the new CTS. It is a 60º V6 like the existing 2.8, and it has as much horsepower as the 63 327 Impala Supersport that was the second car I ever owned.

I was thinking this would be a more even swap weight wise, so maybe no spring swaps. Since they are both 60º V6's shouldn't the fit be pretty simple?

Or would the one of the 2.8 CTS V6's and transmissions be an easier fit?

I like the idea of it still being a V6, but with better power and maybe even fuel economy.

Or am I being stupid even considering such a thing!

I would love to hear your comments either way. Thanks

 

your idea is spot on. So you are about to get flamed all to hell. not by me but you are asking good questions that have not proven as being "easy" or "sane." I would tell you to get on the ball and find a wrecked cts with a intact wiring harness and go to town. it can not be anymore of a pain in the *** to swap a non vvt caddy v6 and 6speed than an lt1, ls1,lsx into a 3rd gen. and the brakes are a fit also... from the caddy.

I am sure if there was a good # of people interested painless or some other company would come through with a wiring harness for us... just an idea.

well hope you move on this, and post updates.

b

 

well its certainetly different
good luck finding a wrecked cts in the bone yards
caddy powered bird ftw

 

Thanks for the posts, 84 & Chezoom. Chezoom, what does ftw mean? Anyway, we are very early in the process of considering this, but I have done some research and there are a surprising number of CTS donor cars available (gotta love the web). In fact one seller on eBay currently has an almost new 3.6 engine and trans complete for $4k. Only problem for me is it is AWD. Of course, I'm not ready yet anyway.

 

well first of all let me introduce myself, I am a level 2 Service tech at the local cadillac dealer, and a cadillac and camaro owner, and I will be the first to say dont go with a DI, the direct injection v6 has a slight issue with we umm.... not running. and is intermittent and random, that and finding a way to control the VVT? i mean these cars computers are so complex, your next issue is thet the compuer reads off of a CAN type serial data line, honestly if i were going to do a caddy powered camaro swap, i would look more into the catera 3.0. its a DOHC rear wheel drive v6. no VVT but they do have a little pep to em. another cool engine would be to do the olds alero 3.5l v6, or as we call the "the little north star"

oh and ftw means for the win

 

thanks Chevy for the inside scoop on the direct injection engine. It means alot to me coming from someone who works with these issues on a regular basis.

I think I will take your advice and avoid that drivetrain for now.

I am not able to do this myself, so I will have to hire it done, so your insights are very helpful.

The two alternate engine swaps sound quite intriguing.... very cool. What are my chances of finding a low mileage donor car? When were the last of these made?

Also, help me out here. I thought if I got a donor car and swapped out the engine, trans, computer, accessories, etc., that the engine would run just like it did in it's previous home be it caddy, olds or other? or am I being quite naive in this respect?

I had been leaning to the Caddy engines because of their being 60º V6's and rear drive applications. Also, if I read the specs of the various cars correctly, my 85 V6 Firebird is up to 600 pounds lighter than the 3.6 liter CTS...... so less weight = more quick, right?

I'll do some research on the other two engines you suggested. Thanks again!

 

well the problem with cadillac's and using their engines is that their control modules all talk to each other on the serial data line. remove one module and it destroys the way the car runs. perfect example. my Instrument panel on my deville is a control module all on its own. if i remove my cuage cluster, the alternator stops charging and the car drops to base timing. sets a code too, i think it was u1251 class 2 communication failure.the swap can be done. you may want to look into a non vvt motor with mpfi and setup a megasquirt injection system on it, that way is can run standalone without all the cadillac modules. as for the olds 3.5? i believe that ran till 2000 if i am not mistaken same with the catera 3.0

 

Thanks again Chevy. I think I understand better now. How about this: I found a 2001 Camaro V-6 donor car..... 3.8L V6, 200 HP, 225 Torque..... about 55k miles..... collision damage but running car for $3300.

Is this more in line with what you were talking about? and might the electronics all work better in this swap?

My 85 Firebird is 825 pounds lighter (!), and this motor has 48% more horsepower and 37% more torque. I would be happy with that!

Chevy, again, thanks a bunch!

 

what he said, as far as the non-vvt. it is a great idea, and it dose work...but the down side of the complication is over the top.

same kinda deal on a lot of "new" ideas in design. it just reminds me of the old adage of it it were easy then everyone would do it.

I do not know your needs but it might be more constructive or quicker to build ,have built for you, a hybrid rwd 3.4L block with a 3500 topend, with megasquirt running it to your current trans. it seems you can pick up a mally or imp for about a grand running, and core camaro blocks are easy to get also. I heard the best combo is all factory and quenching the factory pistons to dropping the cr a little, but I want to see it done and run before I will start bosting about it.

I do think it would be worth the "WOW" factor of running the caddy stuff. But i had to also throw out a faster option to sorta get there.

the "lil' northstar" = 3500 iirc

well keep thinking and let us know what you do.

b

 

just for what its worth

2.8, 3000, 3.1, 3100, 3400,3.4, 3500, 3.5, 3.6, 3.9 =60*


3.8, 4.3 =90*

honestly the thing to look for is the bellhousing, and the 60* share bellhousing pattern with the caddy fwd v8 also like the 4.9L and the likes. if you are swapping tranny then it is a moot point.

good luck.

b