First, I would like to say hello to everyone and im new at this change over stuff! My younger son is really into cars and a guy gave him a 84 camaro w/blown 305 engine! The cars auto OD tran., 10 bolt rear end, body and interior is in great cont... Anyway, we have a rebuilt 350 4 bolt main that was going to be put into another car for racing, but the guy who had it decided to go with BB and gave the engine to my dad for some work he did for him! Well now my son and I have the engine! We dont want to put the 350 in until we know what all we will need to change over to be able to run it properly, ex: trans, rear end, mounts, electronics, etc... I will probably be hear alot and keep everyone updated w/pics etc.. on our progress! Agian im kinda new @ this so please bare with me! Thanks, MadMax

BTW---They are both have carbs !!

 

Welcome aboard thirdgen.org.

A lot really depends upon what the 350 really is. Most likely it will bolt right in and replace the 305. Motor mounts, transmission, intake manifold, etc., would all swap right over.

The wild card is the "for racing" part. If you could find out what cam and heads it has, and compression ratio would also be a good idea, we'd have a better idea whether or not it would work with the stock carb and ignition - which, by the way, is the best street performance system available bar none.

Can we assume your son is a teenager?

 

I feel to expand on what five7kid typed. "racing" cams and overdrive transmissions don't often mate too well, you keep having to shift down, until you change the cam or the axle ratio. next point, keeping the computer-controlled carburetor and c-c distributor from the 305 is great, no argument there, but that computer is looking for over 15 inches of idle vacuum, something a "racing" cam isn't likely to have. But you must cam the engine for it's compression ratio. It probably is. But since the 350 is not installed in a car, if you can't find out the cam and compression from whomever built it, then I'd advise pulling a head. Then you could see if the pistons are dished, flat-top, or domed. That, plus the casting number of the heads, would provide enough info to find a close-enough-to-accurate compression ratio. In my 9 years as a professional automotive machinist, I've found the cost of replacing a cam is usually far less than the cost of the hassles that go with trying to run a mystery cam, so if you can't find the duration-at-.050", and lobe separation angle of the "racing" cam, I'd advise replacing it once we know your compression and can advise what would work. A 350 that is built for racing, properly geared, should push these camaros well into the 12s. But your berlinetta probably still has a single 2.25" exhaust system, and if so, be aware that it is restrictive for even a mild 350. Also, if your Berlinetta has an automatic, you didn't specify, then the stock 1500-stall converter is a bit tight for any "racing" cam. The cam is cheaper than either the converter or the exhaust, and unless you change something, you have the makings of a serious mismatch. Your other option is to yank a 100,000-mile 305 out of a Caprice, and let your son drive that for a while. Around here, these are as cheap as a cam and lifters and gaskets.

 

Ok, sorry I wasn't more clear, but the guy who gave the 350 to my dad wasn't clear about if he already had it set up for racing or if he was going to get it ready for racing! I'm sorry, I don't have more info, but I was able to get the cast# on the heads "241" 2.00"/1.55" valve size! You talk about the exhast on are camaro now, I believe it is all stock! What changes would have to be made on the exhast to accomodate the 350 if any? Also we pretty much got are heart set on making this 350 working, so all the info needed for the change over would be appreciated! I realize I could get into some money, but what im reaching for is a car that is street legal, but yet we can go to the 1/4 mile raceway to run every once in awhile! I also realize once we get on the track for test runs, we could get addicted to the thrill of getting that better time, so I would probably want to leave room for improvement! BTW yes my son is 15 and really excited about the project!

Thanks again guys for all your info and I hope the cast# will help for futher assistance on this change over! Great help so far, MadMax

 

Those are LS1 heads, not 350 heads. And fwiw, the LS1 is a 346. This changes things entirely. Stick another 305 in the car while you start accumulating all the different things you will need.

 

Yes, 241's are LS1 heads.

This is a lot more involved than your typical 305 to 350 swap. Read the LS1 swap sticky in the top section of this forum. The engine mounts are different, and the connection to the transmission, if you use an older 3rd gen transmission, takes some special attention.

How much else did you get with the engine? It is computer fuel injection and ignition. If you didn't get harnessing, computer, injectors, coils, etc., it might make more sense to sell that engine and use the proceeds to buy something that will bolt back into your car.

 

Hmm, the engine came with a Roch Carb/Quad, intake, headers, no fan or fan clutch, no fly wheel,no lifters or push rods, no valve cover,no dist or electronics etc..! I wondering if the guy was trying to make things work and found out this could become a headache, so decided to give it to my dad to resolve his bill! Well, what do you guiys think? I'm really confused now! I will read about the LS1, but I cant understand why the engine has a carb on it? Thanks again, MadMax

UPDATE: I just been looking at the sticky on the LS1 conversion! WOW is all I can say!!! $$$$$ Man, is there any way to use the block with different heads or is there anything that can be done to get away from the electronics and just run carb?? I have no computer or electronic$$$$ OWWWWWWW!!! Im really worried now, because dad bought gaskets, rings, and bearings for it, but told the guy it was a 350 but, since we had no idea what year it was, the guy @ the parts store had us bring the pistons and crank in to be check size? Also dad took the crank and pistons out to have them checked @ motor rebuild shop! Well for some reason they misplaced the crank and gave dad a new in replace, but again he thought it was a "350" motor, so he got a 350 crank! OMG could this also be a problem with the gaskets, rings, bearings and crank???? Again thanks and im sorry for all the questions, but I would like to learn everything about this engine "350" I can!

 

Well I do have another 305, but its in are old 84 pick up! But I sure was looking forward to a little more power! i guess we can go ahead look into putting this 84 pick up engine in the camaro until I learn a little more about whats going on with this "350" engine and what the guy had in mind when rebuilding it!
Anyway, can you see any problem with the 84 305 pick up engine fitting the camaro? The old truck probably needs overhauled since it has 214,000 miles! Its been sitting for a couple years because the water pump went out and it started smoking pretty bad, and rattling, so I been putting it off!

 

First, Edelbrock makes 3 different intake manifolds to put a carburetor on an LS1, so it is possible. But we won't go there right now. second, get a magnet and try to stick it to the block. If it won't stick, you definitely have an LS1. If it sticks, it might be a truck version of the LS. Then the displacement is cast into the block, on the front face, on the driver's side. Check that and report back. Virtually nothing interchanges between the LS1 and the older 350, so you have some issues to resolve with your local machine shop. An LS swap is very costly even when you do have a complete engine. Your 305 is past it's expected service life, and odds are it needs a full overhaul. Search around for one with half that mileage on it, for under $200.

 

Well a magnet sticks!!! So I guess I may be looking @ a LS truck version engine now? Does this change things as far as anything else goes? What a disappointment!! Things are getting worse and worse!
As far as the 305 goes, I have the one in the camaro to with a rod bearing out, it has 143,000 miles on it, but I have no clue how it was treated! It does run and I seen no smoke, but only ran it for a few sec's because of the knock! I was thinking about taking the crank out of the truck since it dosent have a rod bearing out and putting it in the camaro engine along with some new bearings, and gaskets for a temp fix! This wouldn't cost much as long as the cylinders are not to wore, right? What do think about that? Thanks MadMax

 

Okay, did the mystery engine come with an oil pan? If so, is it stamped steel or cast aluminum? Aluminum would tend to indicate LS. Look on the sides of the block, the LS uses 4 mount bosses in a rectangle, with no freeze plugs, while an older 350 uses 3 bosses in a triangle around the front of 2 freeze plugs per side. We need to make more progress to nail down exactly what you have. As for the 305, all the noted parts interchange, so use your best judgement. It would sure help if you could provide pics of the mystery engine.

 

Also, check the main caps. LS engines used cross-bolted main caps, with 4 vertical bolts per cap, and the sides of the block extend down past the caps, while the 350 block stops about even with the crank centerline.

 

Well sorry for this waste of time, I just checked the engine block cast # 3970010 and its says 327 or 350 that came out of a 69' to 79' model! Intake looks like a 72" cast# 6263751 !! I really dont know whats going on with the LS1 heads that were on it! You think he just stuck them on it and then realized they wouldn't work, so just got rid of it? This is really getting deep, but im learning alot already! Again im sorry about not checking the engine better first and would like to thank you for your time!
I do have the oil pan, but but do you need the info still? Also is it possible the heads could have be mechined to work? If you still need pic of something I can upload some!

 

there is NO realistic machining that will let you run those LS1 heads on that 3970010 block. Put some dished pistons in that 350, then freshen up the better (flow-wise)pair of your 305 heads, and it will feel better than a 305, just don't go too crazy with the cam. Any more questions, feel free to ask

 

Ok, , is there any thing I can do to the 305 heads, to be better performers? Also looks like the 350 already has dished pistons!
Wow, what a 360 degree turn around, man now things looking up again! thanks man, MadMax

 

First, pop the valve covers and get us the casting numbers for both sets of 305 heads, then we can tell you which are preferred. If both sets are the 416s, then you can leave your truck alone a while longer. Then, you take them to an honest machine shop to have them magnafluxed for cracks. If they're good, then you can have them cut for larger valves. check out www.competitionproducts.com, search their part numbers 8430 and 8435. 8435 is the way to go if your exhaust seats are in bad shape, otherwise the 8430. But don't buy valves until the shop checks the heads. Do buy valves before the shop cuts the heads. Have them put a 30 degree back cut on all the valves before cutting the heads. If your guides need work, don't accept knurling or liners. Get a 3-angle valve job, then have them do a bowl hog, at 75 degrees, as deep as possible, in all the ports, until the 60 degree cut is the same width as the 45 degree cut. This does in 10 minutes what would take you 2 days of porting. But there's more you can do, porting wise. You don't need to, but you can taper the exhaust guides, and lightly blend the 75 degree cut into the ports, then polish the exhaust ports. Once you have the valves, then ask us about choosing a cam.

 

Well, I hope you dont go anywhere, this will be a slow going project(money tight)! Right now im having some issues with some surface rust on the crank and pistons! Im wondering if there is some spray thay would remove it or will i have to spend more money on having it polished again? I just had the crank polished 4 mo ago! I really should have sealed it some how! Anyway, thanks again for your help and I hope you guys will be here for us every step of the way! I will post every step and show some pics of the progess being made!

 

They should have to re-polish it for free since they didn't spray it with any anti-rust chemicals like every other machine shop in America does. Every shop I worked at used something or other.

 

Well I am back to the 350 engine and i know its been awhile, sorry! Anyway, it looks like the cast is 601's! Whats the story on these heads, will they work? Also I contacted a good machinist and he gave me a quote on that head work you wanted me to do! He saying about $400.00 for that job if the 601's work! That got me looking at some vortex heads @ summit which cost around $600.00, but I would also have to get a vortex intake which cost about $150.00 = total looking around $750.00!
So I have a couple questions now!
1st, is it better to spend more money and go with the vortex heads or spend less money and go with having the 305's machined? Is the power gain a big difference?
2nd, if going with the vortex is the best bet, I will have to wait a little while longer to get the money together and I was thinking about leaving the 305's stock, until I can get the vortex. Will the stock 305's work or will it run like crap?
Anyway I hope I can get something to work for awhile and thanks again for your help!

 

The 601s will drive okay for now. Fully ported 601s done well, will just about equal stock Vortec heads. If you're going to spend money, and if this is a 350, (I've forgotten, and am too lazy to go back and look) you can get a new, bare pair of Pariot Freedom heads for $575, plus another $80 for a set of valves, and $15 for new seals, then reuse the intake retainers and springs from both pairs of 305 heads, and for under $700 have high-flowing aluminum heads that don't require a new Vortec intake. This is the best bang-for-the-buck. You get more power than Vortec heads, and you save about 45 pounds off the front of your already-nose-heavy ride.