fazool

I am planning on swapping out the 305 in my 86 firebird for a 350 (carb and auto trans). I haven't decided, but am likely to do the rebuild myself with the following:

1. Edelbrock performer heads (aluminum)
2. Edelbrock performer cam
3. Hypereutectic flat top pistons, running about 10:1 CR
4. I have to meet emissions here in CT, so I plan on using the CAT, AIR pump, etc.

My question is about the distributor and carb and how they would work with the computer, or if I really need the computer at all? The carb is the electronic Q-jet, which I don't really like. I'd just assume change it for something better if I knew the thing wouldn't adversely affect emissions. The distibutor is the HEI with no advance guts in it - all handled by the computer.

Here's my options:
1. keep the computer, carb and distibutor (but will it work ok with the new engine?)
2. pitch the computer carb and distibutor and go with something else (but will it pass emissions?)
3. other options? Any opinions?

My goal is to have some serious street oompf, but still be usable as a (very fun) daily driver. I thought about nitrous and turbos,but have decided against it for now - better places to spend the moolah right now!

any opinions and/or help?

thanks in advance

gene

ede

you can change the carb and distributor to non ecm controlled and still pass e test, lot of people on here do and have. you can keep you carb and distributor and use them on the new engine too. if it were me i'd get rid of the carb and distributor and go with non ecm controlled parts, or go to EFI, but then you'd get in to chips and all the related problems. long as they don't raise the hood you should be in good shape with out the controls in place.

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ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I don't know about CT, but in CO the SES light must come on before you crank the engine and go off when the engine starts or you fail your emissions test. If that is the case in CT, then Option 1 is the only one that will work unless you go to a TPI swap (Option 3). And, yes, the 350 would work fine with Option 1.

As others have said, there's "technical" legal and "real world" legal. The 350 isn't "technically" legal unless you go with a later induction (TPI) and have it tested as such. But, "real world" it will pass with the CC carb.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R. 2.73 unlimited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LB9 w/ZZ3 cam, TBD heads, exhaust, paint, etc.).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. 0.030 over 396, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & shift kit, 3.08 10-bolt, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

fazool

I don't really think they check the engine for cubes here in CT. These guys are basically low-payed dorks who don't know better. But, they stick a mirror under the car - presumably checking for the catalytic converter and holes in the floor boards. What they do check is the following:

a) sniff check at the tailpipe while on a dyno going about 25 mph.
b)gas tank cap pressure (interesting test if you've never seen it)
c)all the external lights.

Since the 350 won't look any different to them, I'm not really worried about that. I will keep all the smog crap (air pump, EGR, CAT etc.). I want to pass emissions, it'll make me feel better :-)

My goal is to make good power, be legal (sort of anyway), have decent gas milage, and have fun!

I was on the phone yesterday with the guys at AFR. They recommended their 190 head to me and suggested the Comp Cams 270 cam (I think anyway). The guy felt that as long as all the emissions equipment is on the motor, that it would squeak by. Hmmmm. Wish there was a way to be sure. If I don't pass, then I gotta get creative. 'Course you only have to check once every 2 years -

gene

JPrevost

I'm in the same boat as you. I talked to my friend that owns a garage and he could overlook some of the stuff as long as it passes the sniff test. He recomends keeping the TBI just because it's EFI and I'd get better fuel managment and more reliable ET times at the track. I asked if I the vortec headed engine would pass since it doesn't have EGR but it was in newer vehicles. He said that it could but that the car wouldn't pass some kind of knock test since the combustion chambers are going to be hotter. I don't know how this is true, something to do with the EGR passage warms up the intake which inturn produces a "cooler" burn since less fuel/air. What I don't understand is how it works on the drivers side? The guy races at Englishtown all the time with his brother so I don't think he doesn't know what he's talking about. Oh well, one of my friends says if the price is right then get it so I think I'm going to get the 330hp vortec headed engine and just install it. If it doesn't pass emmisions with the AIR and Cat then I'll just have to do some fancy work.

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, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list), getting new engine in summer

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I've never heard of an emissions inspection that checked the actual displacement of the engine, true. But, a "350" sticker on the valve cover can open a can of worms. Also, you might be surprised what they're looking for while they seem to be scratching their butt or just starting the car. In fact, here they start off by telling you, "Pop the hood and turn off the engine. You can wait over there in the waiting room." They start the inspection with the engine off because they are checking the SES light when they start it again (explains why they are hunched over the steering wheel instead of just sitting back in the seat). They also check for smoke out of the exhaust when starting before they install the sniffer - their computer asks "Smoke at startup - Yes/No" after the dyno test is done.

To summarize, I believe you can do the 350 you listed while keeping the CC carb & distributor and sail through emissions testing (assuming the carb is in decent shape, standard things like plugs/wires/cap/rotor/O2 sensor are fresh, and you maintain all the other attachments like EGR, cat, air pump, air cleaner, etc.). Tune the carb for power with rods, hanger, and AV spring adjustment (won't affect emissions testing at all).

[This message has been edited by five7kid (edited January 05, 2001).]

fazool

I don't think they check under the hood here. I've never seen that, but just to be sure, I'll use valve covers that don't say anything! Hmmm, that hunched over the steering wheel thing though - not certain, but I may have seen that. If so, the computer's got to stay. Actually I don't mind it too much. I'm an engineer, so if I can connect with the right people and figure out what parameters to change in the PROM,I could come up with some decent performance parameters which I could swap in and out depending if I am getting tested or not.

This is the first time I've heard about the "smoke at startup". Is that some sort of check for the catalytic converter?

A couple of things still on my mind are: to keep the electronic carb (Q-jet) or not and which heads to use. Depending on the heads I choose, I may not get a heat riser and it won't have EGR in that case. That's a problem. If I stick with the factory Q-jet, I might send it out to be performance modified. If there's one part of a car that I really suck at, it's setting up or rebuilding carbs! Should be easy, but I never seem to get it right.

gene

definitive1

I just finished doing something very similar to what you are. I have an 86 firebird, carbed, auto, and I swapped the 305 for a 350 HO. It ran ok with the stock computer but the spark advance was messed up and it would hesitate alot. I found out that GM makes a 350 swap kit specifically for 305 carbed firebirds. YOu dont need to buy the whole kit which comes with engine, exhaust, ect.; you can get the individual part numbers from the web site. I got the new computer with the PROM, the knock sensor, new secondary metering rods for the carb and the electronic spark control (esc) unit for the correct spark advance curve. All these parts are really necessary to get the job done. The knock sensor is different for 350's so it must be changed also. Took about 3 hours to put it all in and it runs like it was stock, with the power of the HO 350. And definitely keep the Q-Jet, it is really a great carb and works perfect with this kit.
I live in CT also but dont have to go for emissions till May. The kit is supposed to be emissions legal in 50 states but I guess I'll find out.
Hope this helps and heres the website for the parts....https://www.spoperformanceparts.com/
...just click under crate engines and its right there.