im buyin a 82 t/a has a 305 wit a performance cam ,wut kinda power can i get outta this an still keep it daily driveable but get respectable power outta it? btw its gotta 4 spd ,posi an 3.42 gears wut kinda setupid you recomend for it/?????

------------------
1989 pontiac firebird{trans am clone}
maui blue hardtop{new paint}
406 pontiac engine
demon 750 carb
crane roller cam@ 240 intake 248 exhaust
crane roller lifters & rockers 1.6 ratio
edelbrock performer rpm heads and intake
dynoed 457hp@5300 rpm& 503lb ft of tq@2490rpm
all the dressup stuff
12 bolt rearend from a 68 maro,3.73 gears now
17x9.5 zr1 rims up front
17x11 zr1 rims in back
275/40/17 up front
315/35/17 in back
rims are silver
gm 6 speed transmission
centerforce clutch
pioneer cd deck,and changer
infinity 6x9's and 4x6's
2,profile california amps 640sx
2 12" pioneer subs
prolly 100 things im forgetting lol
o yuh its hella fast

 

With a 305 that's a daily driver, I wouldn't try to get more than 250 horsepower out of it. You'd have to run a really big cam.

------------------
1992 Red RS with 305 TBI

 

Yank that weak 305 out, sell it to someone who doesn't have a clue and buy yourself a 350. You'll be glad you did.

 

Slap a blower on it! I got 301HP to the wheels with a bone stock 305 with just 7 psi intecooled boost via procharger.

 

I dont know why every one hates 305's well most everyone. I personally like 305's.
You can go full out and build a 305 power house well into the 2000$+.
But something you might find interesting!
I was looking at the specs for a 350 corevett dont remember the exact year think it was when they re desined it in 84.
"Ive never heard anyone complain about the power of thier vett"
well any way it had a 350 with 190hp! What a joke your lg4305 has 145hp thats 45 hp less than the vett. I dont know the specs on your performance cam but for the fun of it lets say it gives you 20 no i'll be nice 30 hp.
175hp total 15 less than vett. Now rip off the smog pump+5hp and take the cat off+10 15hp or more from doing this a grand total of 190hp+. another intake manifold, carb, headders 1.6 roller rockers and your well into the mid 200's without really ripping the engine apart.

 

I was looking at building up a 305 before i went the 350 route. Get a K & N, headers, and a new intake manifold, a flowmaster, and hollow out your cat and you can grab some good horsepower without sacrificing your driveability

 

I'd be real suspecious of "performance cam", but, other than that:

World Products S/R Torquer 305 heads pocket ported are worth 50 HP alone, more if gasket matched, maybe $800, less if you do the assembly and porting yourself. That was on a stock cam 305 TPI engine tested by Pop Hot Rod (no gasket matching). No reason carb should be different.

A nice cam w/flat tappet lifters, timing set, maybe $150, the previously mentioned 30 HP.

Hooker 2055 shortie headers, 1-5/8" primaries, 3" y-pipe to cat, 3" Catco cat, $470 delivered from Summit, ~25 HP.

A decent 3" catback, somewhere between $150-350, ~20 HP.

Tune the q-jet per tech article, minimal $'s. Do something about the restrictive air cleaner - we'll say $30 just for kicks for those. No HP number, you just have to do these things to get the other numbers.

$1800, about 265 horse, streetable, smog legal (depending upon cam). Up the compression via L69 or later LG4 flat top pistons, about 275 horse.

There is NO WAY you'll get a 350 to do that for the same money - because you'd have to buy a 350, but you've already got the 305 (assuming the 305 is in decent shape). If you just get a 350 and only spend $1800, you either won't do anything about the heads or exhaust, and end up killing power.

Of course, you've about maxed out the 305, where the 350 would have room to grow.

------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/LB9 block, ZZ3 cam and intake, TBD heads, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. 0.030 over 396, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

[This message has been edited by five7kid (edited March 30, 2001).]

 

.

 

Because the 305 was a garbage engine. Always has been, always will be. Dollar for dollar, people who hot rod a 305 will always lose to a person who spent the same money but started with larger CID engine.

Why???
There's no substitute for cubic inches!!!!

Turbos, nitrous oxide & superchargers all fool an engine into thinking that it's bigger than it is. It does this simply by shoving more fuel/oxygen into the cylinder. The more A/F mixture you can cram into a given volume, the more the cylinder pressure builds thus more energy released when ignited. A larger engine for the most part can handle an larger dose (200hp dose of N2O vs. 100hp shot). There's A LOT more to this than the few sentences I have written here but hopefully it has you thinking.

You basically have two options:
There are quite a few decent high performance long blocks out there that don't cost an arm and a leg.
- OR -
Save your money until you can afford to buy a 350 or whatever and build it.

 

Guess im going to have to defend my self on this one !
Im not saying that the 305 is the best engine that gm made "427" or "327" oh yeah! But its not a bad engine. Sure it was made to reduce
emmisons for cars and light trucks. But with a little work it can be made into screaming little beast. the only thing wrong with the design is the heads and the rare case of dished pistons. the 58cc heads dont flow as well as the 64 unless there ported and have bigger vales dropped in. Sure if you want a killer street/strip car go with the 327, 350 or you might as well go for a big block but if a 305 is what you got might as well make the best of it unless you want to go out and spend money and time on another engine.

 

Super Sport,

But why put money into something that will always be inferior? In today's environment, it doesn't make sense to build anything smaller than a 350 when you can buy a 350 long block for as little as $800. Why cheat yourself out of cubic inches? 350 blocks are a dime a dozen (almost). A 327 was also a good engine... in the 60's. Even if you have a 305 that's in the car, leave it there while you build something better. That way you don't have a 3000 lb. paper weight sitting in the driveway, carport or whatever.

 

offroader, youre right but swapping a 305 with a 350 already puts you in the hole doesnt it?
l mean come on, the 305's not an amazing engine its nothing really special, but its practically no different than the 350 in the 3rd gen camaros bigger displacement, different injectors, is about it, it make what? 20 more HP or something like that? no, 305's not the best motor, but its more than buildable, and somewhat decent stock.

 

you all need to get off the 350 thing,i would swap a 350 but i dont have the time an i need some decent power with decent gas mileage,i dont wanna talk the motor out i jus wanna do lil stuff here an there for more power

------------------
1989 pontiac firebird{trans am clone}
maui blue hardtop{new paint}
406 pontiac engine
demon 750 carb
crane roller cam@ 240 intake 248 exhaust
crane roller lifters & rockers 1.6 ratio
edelbrock performer rpm heads and intake
dynoed 457hp@5300 rpm& 503lb ft of tq@2490rpm
all the dressup stuff
12 bolt rearend from a 68 maro,3.73 gears now
17x9.5 zr1 rims up front
17x11 zr1 rims in back
275/40/17 up front
315/35/17 in back
rims are silver
gm 6 speed transmission
centerforce clutch
pioneer cd deck,and changer
infinity 6x9's and 4x6's
2,profile california amps 640sx
2 12" pioneer subs
prolly 100 things im forgetting lol
o yuh its hella fast

 

MouseCamaro305,
The 305 has a bore of what 3.75" vs. the 350's 4.00"? That quarter inch makes huge difference in the horsepower/torque department. Also remember that up until the mid to late 80's, most 3rd Gen. F-body were so overburden with emission equipment that it's suprising they even ran let alone made any horsepower.

Mark406,
If you actually have all those mods you've listed in your sig, I'm surprised you even asked your question. A 406 cid engine that dyno's 457hp should tell what's needed for a meek little 305. Since you're so dead set against swapping engines, if it were up to me a NOS powershot will give you power-on-demand while still keeping you 305 a daily driver. A 100hp shot of N2O shouldn't do any harm to your engine provided it's in good shape to start with. BUT make darn sure your fuel system NEVER and I mean NEVER leans out while on the bottle or you will be buying yourself a new engine.

[This message has been edited by offroader (edited March 31, 2001).]

 

Mark406 since money is an issue why not wait and get yourself a 350. You start putting money into this 305 then you decide you want more power you will definetely wasting your money. By going with a 350 you have way more options (peformance wise) than a 305.I just put in a 383 in my 86 Z28 and let me tell you going with the bigger cube engine is AWESOME!

------------------
Big 454 72 Chevy Nova
383 86 Camaro Z28
10.5:1compression 186 casting Heads,234dur.488lift exh&int,Edelbrock performer intake, Holley750 vac.sec 400 crank,flat top pistons,edelbrock valve springs and lifters,tranny shift kit,kickdown kit and tranny oil cooler. Will install 3.73's later on and might go with a more aggresive cam.

 

i never said money was an issue,an yes all those mods have been performed i was on the v6 boards but did tha swap all tha v6 guys helped me on this swap ,,,,,,,,,the thing on the 82 t/a is that i was just wondering wut kinda reliable hp you can get outta a 305 im not stupid im jus not too familiar with 305s money isnt an issue but im not gonna build this thing to the nuts!maby in the future when i got sumtin else but fer now this is gonna b a daily driver

 

Oh well! Mark best thing to do really is to go 350 yes i love the 305's economy/power and stated so im my previous posts on your subject. The real deal here is your 305 will eventually take a dump so will my 305 in the firechicken my gas saver the best thing to do is to mod your 305 with things that can be reused on a 350 like intake heads roller rockers headders stuff like that. you said money wasent an issue but why waste any! use the 305 to plan for the future thats what i do!

 

If it makes all you feel better, I'm putting in a 350 HO w/ the TBI system for $2600 installed. That's intake, engine, harmonic balancer, and 670 cfm throttle body. $2600 bucks that's gonna push my 92 Camaro into the 330 hp range whereas a fully modified 305 with 285 hp wouldn't stand a chance against it, and you have spent the same amount of money. If you mess around with the engine too much, it doesn't last very long. You spend the 2500 to fully mod it out... it'll be dead in a year if you drive it everyday.
Just my 2 cents, I'm gonna be happy with my sleeper...

Dave
92 Camaro RS

 

mark406 I've got a friend that has put good money into his 305 Camaro and I would hardly call this 305's power respectable. My 383 blew him away so easily it's pathetic!

------------------
Big 454 72 Chevy Nova
383 86 Camaro Z28
10.5:1compression 186 casting Heads,234dur.488lift exh&int,Edelbrock performer intake, Holley750 vac.sec 400 crank,flat top pistons,edelbrock valve springs and lifters,tranny shift kit,kickdown kit and tranny oil cooler. Will install 3.73's later on and might go with a more aggresive cam.

 

Once again, we seem to have a failure to communicate.

Mark, if you want "respectable power" and daily driveablity, you can get that easily with the 305 (assuming the bottom end is in good shape) for a lot less than these 350/383 options. I know you said money isn't the issue, but given your original parameters, seriously consider the package I recommended.

Will it outrun 350s? Perhaps some Goodwrench replacement 350 versions with the 305 exhaust, but not the more highly modified ones. Will it keep up with 383s? No, but what are your objectives? Will it be driveable and get decent gas mileage? Absolutely. Will it be quicker to finish, less of a hassle than a 350 or 383 swap? Absolutely.

------------------
82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/LB9 block, ZZ3 cam and intake, TBD heads, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. 0.030 over 396, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, 3.08 8.2" 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

 

When I got my '84 with the L69 305, I went for all the cheap/free mods, like the higher-energy ignition, 3" exhaust, cat-gut, different secondary rods & hangers, cold air setup, axed most of the emissions stuff (probably forgetting a few things)
It's never going to run like a 350, but it's a helluva lot better than it was.
I can't help but wonder what kind of power a twin-turbo would add, though.

------------------
DR Stevens
1984 Trans Am 305HO L69
sucks gas, hauls ***
1991 Firebird 305 LO3
for days when I need a/c

 

Did you even read to see what he wanted? He doesn't want a weekend warrior. He wants a daily driver with a little zest. Besides, how many people have 350s and 383s swapped into their third gens? Sure, they can make more easier than a 305, but wheres the orinigality?
I'm in the same position as Mark. I've currently got a 305 in my 85Z. All winter I researched a 350 swap. Than I started thinking that if I got the 350 I would definitely have to get a better trans. That would set me back another 1500 - 2000. Now being a high school student I don't have that kind of money. I won't be able to make the most powerful, so I'm not even gonna try. I'm gonna make a daily driver, that will sound cool when it's revved at stop lights.

 

i agree with the originalty thing, but you don't really need to upgrade, Kevin91Z ran a T-5 with over 400 ft/lbs of torque. You just have to be careful. These people are right about the 305 being made for emmissions, try looking at other engines, 327, 383 is not all that popular compared to the 350, a 400, bore and stroke 350s and 400s, or destroke them to get the power you want but you can still be orginal. there are other options besides a 305 to 350 swap.

-Tom

 

Some of you don't listen (or read) very well. The original post didn't ask about swapping a 350 in the place of the 305. This post would probably do better in another section (besides the motor swap board).

I've seen 305's put out some respectable numbers. It looks like you've got an all out fast car already so I can understand not wanting or needing to build another with a 350. I would use nitrous if it where me. But, why are you even asking? The same things that make your 406 fast will make the 305 better.

Anyways, what do I know...I swapped a 231ci V6 in place of a 350 V8. Crazy huh?
~Brendan

------------------
1988 Turbo Trans Am GTA - 3.8L V6 turbo w/ 700-R4
"There IS a replacement for displacement!"

<A HREF="http://turbogta.homestead.com/main.html"></A>

[This message has been edited by Brendan (edited April 30, 2001).]

 

Do ported heads, a mild cam and a bigger carb/Throttle body. the car will be much zestier and still wont kill you on gas. just make sure your ignition will run it well.

and ive seen 305s push thier 3rd gens into 12s so it may not be a great engine capable of 830hp with no blower or turbo, but it can be a fast little 5 liter.

personally im looking to swap a LT1 into my TA. the lt1 get the same mileage and has almost 200 more hp. (its one out of a 92 corvette) but thats cuz im sick of having a f-body that geats beaten by CRXs and accords. i would rather have an f-body that spanks the new f-bodies. or at least keeps up with em.

 

al i gota say is this, intake,carb,heads,cam,and exuast,theres 300+ hp

 

Check out my site. www.bharris.org/camaro I scanned 2 articles from my sport truck magazine that used Vortec 350 heads shaved .045 with felpro .015 head gaskets with a decent cam made 300+ horsepower. Articles show dyno results and lists parts used. So since you have a performance cam installed just get you some Vortec heads and shave them. The Vortec 350 trucks make 270hp stock and that is 60hp more than my 92 truck and 100hp more than my Camaro. with cam and headers your 305 should make up for the cube difference.