Well to day Ive started my swap and Ive got the top of the motor stripped and all the accessories and pullies and such removed.....Heres the question(s), out the top or bottom? If I go out the top Im gonna use the a comealong attatched to a reinforced beam overhead....cant use a picker on a sloped gravel driveway, it wont roll without risking tipping it over.....if I go out the bottom what all will be involved in that.....Im just trying to figure the pros and cons of each, and I would like to leave the trans in the car if possible so I wont have to bleed the clutch system....Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

1-3rd gen through the top is the easiest!

 

So Ive read, BUT If I leave the trans in the car how hard will it be to reallign the input shaft on the clutch? What about if you are not using a picker? on the other note if I go thru the bottom, can I just pull the motor? will I have to remove any steering componets?

Any one want to chime with a basic step by step for the bottom drop? IVE SEARCHED

 

If you take it out the bottom you'll have to take the front suspension and brake lines apart.

 

But not the steering center link and such, rite? swaybar? I need to take a better look under my car.......I dropped a few FWD cars motor and trans thru the bottom and we just unbolted the calipers and moved them outta the way.....I really dont want to pull the trans due to the hyd. clutch assembly....can you pull just the motor thru the bottom?

 

Just take it out the top.

 

I have yet to figure out how to re-attach my motor to my tranny while in the bay. I have always had to pull the tranny, attach, then install the assembly. However, with a hydraulic clutch, it's WAY EASIER. You can just push the clutch, then slide them together, and let out the clutch.

Pulling out the bottom would involve removing the K-member, which is what I would call an absolute disaster.

Pull from the top. Remove your hood, and go to town. A come along and a re-enforced ceiling beam? Ok, as long as you're confident in that? I guess then you'd just move the car out of the way, and put the engine down on a stand?

 

I'd rent a chain block, a comealong will be a nightmare to use.

 

Ok after taking a good look at the car Ive come to the conclusion that the centerlink, and pitman/idler arm will have to come out to remove the motor from the bottom......Im not liking that

exactly
2 4x6s across an 8 foot gap and then roll the car out from under the motor swingin......

 

There's absolutely no question it's a million times easier to just hoist the engine out of the top.

 

Im going to take it out of the bottom simply because im doing an LS1 swap.

 

Do you usually need to run a load leveler when pulling the engine and trans together?


I gotta pull my 327/TH350 this weekend as well

 

If you have a manual tranny you will have to align the splines with the clutch anyway so with the complete drivetrain out do your work mate the two reinstal......from the top

 

hey man just do one at a time it easier that way. drop the drans out the bottom then pick the motor out save a lot of work imo. dont have to remove the front clip or nuttin.

and he me up if you need help. im close and my weekends are always wide open

 

Unbolt the slave cylinder from the bell housing and move it out of the way. Then disconnect any harness thats hooked up to the trans and pull the whole mess out the top. Thats what I did anyway. I think its easier to line up the input shaft with the clutch disc when everything is out of the car.

 

I pulled a 305/700R4 as one piece out the top of a parts car. I wouldn't do it that way again. You've got to anchor the hoist to the engine because that's what you can get at, and with the weight of the 700R, the load ends up with the transmission hanging down. It's really easy to just drop the transmission from the bottom, then pull the engine out the top. A T5 would weigh less and probably would be easier to deal with, but you've gotta get under the car to unbolt the tranmission mount, torque arm, etc. You can get most of the bellhousing bolts from the top. What difference do the other 2 or 3 bellhousing bolts make?

 

Thanks, i'll keep that in mind.

 

Not true. They attach to the frame. Depending on how much you drop out, either the outer tie rod will have to be separated from the spindle arm, or undo the ball joint and leave everything hanging. Steering can stay put

From experience, I can say out the bottom is easiest, but a sloped gravel driveway kills that because youll have to slide the powertrain out. Usually I use wheel or furniture dollies to do this. The small wheels dont like to roll on gravel and the slope aspect makes everything dangerous. For your situation, Id yank it from the top

 

One more question, can I just unbolt the bellhousing from the trans and pull the bell with the motor?.....4 easy to remove bolts and done.....and Pocket wouldnt the motor have to move back a bit to clear the center link to do the bottom drop? From the way it looks the centerlink is right in the way....howd you miss it?

 

Out the top. You can just leave the bellhousing attached to the transmission, but once the transmission is out of the way the engine to bellhousing bolts are cake. Putting it back in with the transmission attached is my favorite way. It isn't that complicated to assemble under the car, but the first time I did it I ended up pulling the motor back out to attach the transmission and put it back in as a unit.

 

Out the bottom means remove the K-member. You literally go strait down with everything and dont go anywhere near the steering linkage

 

You're right, it is easier from the top only took 4 hours start to finish.



Thanks for all the help guys.

 

were your kids mad that you took apart their swing set?

 

I was thinking that looked pretty stout, and then I noticed the gap from the joint in the overhead span....

 

lag bolts my friend.....thru the top 4x6 and thru the supprt blocks, and its posted straight down....it didnt budge a bit.....it helps being a glorified carpenter too

 

I'm talking about the vertical line about midway through the top span. Looks like a lap joint. Maybe a thick pencil mark instead?

 

kinda makes me want to beef up the rafters in my garage and attach a winch..

 

OHHHHH..... naw man thats the cable for the comalong that you are seeing, I think?.... the beam is one solid 10ft 4x6

whats a garage????

but for real if you gimmie the distance Ill tell you what will work for a beam, DONT add weight to a load bearing member of a structure.

whats a winch????

 

do yourself a favor and pick up an engine lift. they are fairly cheap

 

OK - first, I dont have a garage so if I bought a lift it would sit outside...... great place for a $150 investment

second, I dont pull motors all that often, and when I do they are usually FWD and they come out the bottom, therefore I use an A FRAME because they are SOOO much easier and lift way so much better and higher than a "cherry picker"...

Third Define fairly cheap, I did - between the comealong, the straps, and the lumber, I have about $35 invested, thats $115 more that I have to spend on my car instead of tools....You cant drive a motor lift, JACKO

Forth, I picked up my car (front tires off the ground) WITH THE MOTOR STILL IN IT......Try to do that with a motor crane.

Fith, Motor cranes are a PITA to use on GRAVEL!!!! WHY WOULD I SPEND 3X THE $$$ TO MAKE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT??????

This is not my first rodeo cowboy, just my first 3rd gen....and I have and engineering degree....I know WTF Im doing.....not all of us **** $$$ away without thinking about easier, cheaper, solutions....

Do yourself a favor BUILD AN A FRAME!!!!!

 

The load rating for a cherry picker will be significantly higher than that of a simple wooden A-frame, especially one of that design... Even a cheap cherry picker is quite capable of lifting the 2000ish lb front end of a 3rd gen several feet off the ground with everything still attached

Generally the cherry picker remains stationary on an uneven surface while the car is rolled back, much like how you'd get it out with the A-frame too

Based on your temperament, spelling/grammar, and design/materials of that A-frame, Id question that and at least ask where you received it from

Why? My cherry picker fits inside my garage and does the same job without requiring a small crew of guys to move around. I can use it indoors and out, its collapsible so I can take it with me if a friend needs help, and has certified load ratings for infinite uses so it will NOT collapse on a subsequent pull. BTW wood fatigues exponentially faster than steel. Should mine collapse, the manufacture will get a lawsuit. If yours collapses, you'd be up for a Darwin award

 

Shmack2004
Dang I just reread my previous post and I did sorta come off like a (short for Richard)...Which was not my intention, I hate how you cant sense the demenor of a person thru a computer screen.....Im not gonna edit the post though thats the sissy thing to do instead of accepting your actions and owning up to them....I am the kinda guy thats a mix of Morris and Spiccoli (Fast Times FTW!!!) and says things with a chuckle and smile....which is the way I intended my post but I guess it didnt turn out that way....So I will further say that I b An (donkey)......Sorry shmack 2004 did mean to come off half cocked......

Pocket
Ive read and reread a-many of your posts....and Id like to think that you and I are of the same mold.....2 smart guys working on our cars in the dirt.... Ive seen your 3d renderings and I say WOW, because I know first hand the time that went into them....Now I thought that the frame I built was Extremely Stout......Lotsa triangles there Bro... and the beam was posted straight down to solid concrete blocks...... Before I even lifted up my motor, I tested it by lifting the whole front end of the car up to put it on ramps.....and the pickers I looked at were only rated for 1000lbs for $150...eff that I need a cam....And I dont plan on reusing it, its going to be broken down and used on an addition Im building ATM......And please if you see a flaw in the design or materials used point it out, It may look slapped together because I built it by myself, but I actually spent a bit planning and thinking this one out...They teach you to do that at VMI. And I dont care how I type, I know its not perfect I do try to sound better than the "OMG WTH TTY" crap .....Id rather talk. That way people can tell the difference between EFF YOU!!!!! and hahahahah eff yooou hahahaha....... But oh well, the bottom line is that it worked and I couldnt justify the cost of buying or even renting a lift when the $$ would be better spent on my car when I could build one for nearly nothing. And Im not trying to be confrontational or whatever, but come on, it may be a monstrosity but its built better than some Ive seen...check this out



and it actually worked.....so I know that my contraption was gonna.....Talk about scary..... If I built that, Id expect to get flamed, but I think I did a much better/safer job.

 

beat me to it pocket
anyway I didn't tell you to get the engine to waste your money or make it harder or whatever...I really don't need to say anything else on it because pocket covered it for me lol
I just have a problem trusting anything car related when its made of wood.

 

just take it out to top i took 3 out of these cars

 

well as i said before im planning on going out the bottom mostly because im doing an LS1 swap and from what i read on here its hard to drop the LS1 in because its tight near the k-member. I've gone from the top and bottom so I think both ways are easy. I guess it just depends on what you a comfortable doing.

 

Yep, that's pretty stout.

I have a pretty decent engine hoist. Problem with most commercial hoists is that the reach is too short for a Firebird. I have to put towels between the upright and the car bumper. Not so bad with a small block V8, but it places a lot of stress on the bumper when setting in a big block V8. I have no prayer of setting in both the engine and trans together. The best hoists I have seen were all home made and took up a lot of space when not in use. If I had to do it all over again I would probably get an overhead hoist. It doesn't take up any space on the floor and has lots of other uses.

 

Take the nose off or push the hoist in from the side

 

I never really thought about taking off the bumper skin. How difficult is it to get lined up again, and is it a one man job?

For me, coming in from the side is even more difficult than the front. No engine stand has legs low enough to fit under my car. If it did, then it gets hung up on the tire before it travels in deep enough to put the engine in place. If I raise the car on jack stands then it is too high to reach far down into the engine bay without climbing all over the fenders. And I don't touch my paint for any reason other then washing and waxing. That's how I keep my car all shiny and pretty.

Like I said, I'd rather have a portable electric hoist. It would be great not having to manually winch the car onto my trailer. The cost doesn't bother me and I'm lazy enough to really enjoy it.