I just bought an engine from a guy on craigslist. He says the engines a 350 with 330 hp and 345 lb of torque, no where can i find the info i need to determine what type of cam and what not i can use for performance. The block casting number is 10066036, the head casting number is 12558062. The block says made in Mexico in 2004. I cant find this engine anywhere that was made in 2004 also the guy said compression was 9:1. If anyone can help id really appreciate it. Ill upload some pics as well, Thanks.

 

first batch

 

more

 

more.

 

more..

 

and last, the engines kind of dirty. Anyone know a good safe way to clean it? And inside the intake holes are dirty as well as the coolant ones. If those are the wrong names the ones that are square on top, I took a pic of them one looks like theres sand in it and the other has like an orange rust. If theres any safe ways please let me know thanks

 

Looks like the stock motor out of a 96-99 Chevy/GMC truck. If it's not, it's probably a service replacement for that application.

Those are the Vortec heads you've heard tell about.

The compression he quoted is probably about right.

Unfortunately it doesn't appear to have a roller cam setup, like an OE Vortec motor would have. You're stuck with either running a flat-tappet type, or getting the $$$original roller (now know as "retrofit")$$$$ style, or finding a junk motor at your local boneyard or somewhere and ganking the factory roller apparatus out of it. There are 2 main things you need to be concerned with there. The first is that the heads are VERY hostile to high lift; the retainers will hit the top of the guides at somewhere around .465" - .480" of lift, as they now sit. The second is, the valve springs they put on those heads are about the WEENIEST things that can be recognized as springs, that have ever been used on SBCs; I wouldn't even call them "springs", they're really just "spring-shaped objects". They are inadequate for the SUPER WEENIE stock cam that's in it now. They are BEYOND INADEQUATE for ANY aftermarket cam. You MUST change them out, along with all their hardware, if you put ANY OTHER cam in there.

I'd recommend leaving the "dirt" you see inside it, alone; unless you tear the motor down. It won't bother anything. The dirt on the outside, you can put an intake on it, tape over the intake and exuast holes with dusct tape, and take it to the quarter car wash and clean that up easily enough.

 

Is not the Vortec engine that they came with
Does not have the top of the lifter bores machined for the roller lifter dogbones , the drilled bosses for the lifter retainer spider or the alum crank seal mount behind the flex plate ( 1 pce RMS )

Appears to be a Goodwrench shortblock somebody put Vortec heads on
( I don't see any listings for GM crate motors with Vortec heads on non roller 2 pce seal blocks)

GM # 10067353
New Goodwrench 350 Engine 1971-1985 Car and light Truck Replacement Engine.

Block ,2 piece rear main seal 4 bolt main casting # 10066036
Crankshaft- # 3932444
Nodular Iron 1985 and older flywheel bolt pattern.
Powdered Metal Connecting rods- # 10108688
Cast Aluminum Pistons-#12514101
Hyd Flat tappet Camshaft- #14088839
@ .050"Int 194 / Exh 202 . 383"/ .401" LSA-112
8.5:1
250 HP @4300 rpm
350 ft. lbs of torque @ 3600 rpm

Of course ,those Hp and CR numbers are with the #33417369 ,76cc heads that
that Goodwrench engine originally came with

 

Just to ask with the different heads what do you think my horsepower and torque is?

 

The heads will help a lot over the crate engine 250 HP, but not up to 330 without a cam change.

 

With asking what exact cam should i get to up the hp and have a nice thump? The guys from comp cams couldn't help me because i couldn't identify the specs on my engine

 

Right; definitely not the motor from one of those trucks, probably a service replacement of some sort, since
But at least it has the good heads. Maybe it's some other motor that got stuck inti one of those trucks and they use the original heads from the truck? Hard to say, not that it matters now. It is what it IS, and all the "history" in the world, or lack of it, won't change what it IS.

However all that may be, it's got a flat-tappet setup in it, which kind of sux in this day and time. And it also has Vortec heads, which TPI won't bolt to (if the OP is planning on putting it in the car in his sig which he doesn't really say), unless the one and only "special" conversion baseplate is used, that's available from either Scoggin-Dickey or from Edlebrock. Identical same part, 2 different sources. So, next move would depend on, what you're planning to do with it, and what car it's going in, and stuff like that.

 

Read
http://www.carcraft.com/projectbuild...all/index.html
Only you don't have provision for a roller cam

Specs on the 330Hp Vortec engine those heads came off
http://www.jegs.com/i/GM-Performance...ductId=1231165

 

I read that tech article, the GM performance 24502586 - Gm performance LT4 Hot cam Hydraulic roller camshaft. Now i read how that cam only workd for a 1 piece rear main seal, and mine is a 2 piece rear main seal. Could that cam still work in my engine? Oh and this engine will be carb'd and remain that, no more fighting with injectors and sensors. The engine will be going into a 1991 camaro and would like to make it a nice street/strip car but mostly street

 

Really sounds like the 330hp crate motor GM offers - I pretty sure they offered the 2pc RMS to the peopl who didn't like the 1pc seal.

http://paceperformance.com/i-5136409...te-engine.html

 

Well my engine doesnt have any of the chrome stuff they offer on this engine. Im going to try and ask that guy that sold me the engine to find the paper work on it. He claimed it had 330 hp but who knows if he wanted to get a few hundred more for his engine that wasnt said to be what it is.

 

It could but it costs a lot of $$ for the parts to do the roller conversion.
$300 for retro fit roller lifters for starters
Need to find a similar spec cam in flat tappet type which you probably won't because flat tappet cams can't run the sort of lift roller cams do.
Most likely are going to have more duration/ less lift on a flat tappet to get same effect
In any case if you are going over .480 lift you have to do work on the Vortec heads to allow bigger valve lift

 

Same engine as in my link above and nothing like what OP has except for the heads

Got a link?
Never seen one myself and why would you " not like a 1 pce seal " engine?

 

Im not looking to build anything serious, my goal is to get 400 or plus hp and im not sure if the flat tapped cams will allow that will it? A tech from jegs.com recommended me getting this cam http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/12-212-2/10002/-1 with these valve springs http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/981-16/10002/-1. I sure have no idea if this is a good cam or not but he claims it adds 30-40 hp which doesnt sound bad. Would you guys recommend me to getting this?

 

Id rather trust you all to what i should get. If this is junk or i still can get a better cam than this please help me. Thanks

 

No, not a good cam choice. In fact, the totally wrong design for working along with those heads' strength (VERY good intake flow) and avoiding their weakness (the same pathetic exh flow as any other SBC head).

They respond EXTREMELY POSITIVELY to cams with a larger exh lobe than intake. Most newer design cams for street motors are like that anyway.

You can partially dodge the lift limit problem by using "beehive" springs. Their retainer is much smaller, and therefore gives more clearance before it hits the top of the guide. This allows the use of decent cams without as much risk of destroying parts due to mechanical interference. They're not cheep though. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-26918-16/ You need the retainers and keepers that go with them, as well, for 11/32" valve stems (not the 7mm or whatever it is for LSx valves).

For the cam, I'd suggest this one for a mild daily-driver with some fun type of setup http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-12-238-2/ or this one http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60102/ For more of a "max effort" build, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-12-242-2/ or this one. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60103/ Basically, all of them are the same price as the other one.

 

Hey thanks a lot that helps! To ask since im 16 and have a dream for a fast car out of the two choices which is better for my use. I want a thump idle and i want the most out of my engine however its going to be used for everday use and mainly for street but i do want to most power i can get. What would your suggestion be out the the 2 different ones you said?

 

Take your mufflers off and pull the choke out
A big duration cam that makes the noise you "want" is not suited to your setup

 

Sorry in better words i want the cam to make noise and have alittle ruff idle. I talked to the guy today and he said that there was a mild cam in the engine, i did hear that it was alittle rough on idle. I just want to upgrade this engine also being because i think it was put together half a**ed. The engine was missing bolt, had leaks from not using the right gaskets, etc. What will the car sound like with those cams recommended above?

 

So you need to find out what cam is in it.
May be the cam you need

If you have the engine on a stand is no biggy to pull the cam out to identify if you are going to replace timing cover / pan gaskets
Just remember to keep the lifters in the same order they are on the cam because they can't be swapped around when used

 

With these vortec heads do i have angle plug heads or stright ones?

 

Look at the operating range. usually if it's higher than idle you'll get a little bit of the lumpy noise. At least that's been my experience. They cam he suggested has a short lobe separation, so you'l probably get enough lope to make the sound you want.

As for all the flat tappet hate-- it's not as good as roller to be sure, but it'll still get the car rolling and is still capable of 300+ with a good cam. Shooting for 400 is a bit much. Not to say it isn't possible, but 1) you're 16 and liable to get yourself killed 2) your factory transmission will not appreciate the added hustle and 3) You'll rarely be afforded to use it, and it will garunteed cost you mpg and road manners.

Just me, but I'd fix the leaks, throw an intake on it and be done. Just some food fo thought

Good luck!

 

Internally balanced vs externally balanced

 

1-pc RMS engines are NOT "externally" balanced.

Like ALL other SBCs except for the 400, they are INTERNALLY balanced. There is enough space below the pistons when at BDC, between the rod journals, for enough counterweight to completely balance the reciprocating parts. In the 400 however, because of the short rods, there ISN'T enough space, so the counterweights are "flat cut" across the top (making them easy to spot in a pile of SBC cranks from 100 yards away).

In 2-pc RMS engines, the flywheel flange is part of the rearmost counterweight, which is why it has that funky shape. However since a 1-pc flange has to be round, that little bit of INTERNAL balance weight can't be on the flange, but instead has to be mounted to the flywheel. This DOES NOT make the motor "externally" balanced, even though the weight appears, to the uninformed eye, to be physically mounted "externally". This often confuses people who don't understand about how balancing works, into thinking they are "externally" balanced; after all, there's the weight sitting there looking "external". WRONG. Those terms do not mean what those people are assuming they mean.

AFAIK GM didn't offer that motor with the older-design crank to satisfy people who didn't "like" the 1-pc seal. They ACTUALLY did it for 2 reasons: (1) to consume all of the accumulated production-line rejects from over the years that they had repaired (aka the "Targetmaster" line); and (2) to supply an engine to large fleets (think, phone companies or the Post Office, those types of customers) who needed a cheeeeep replacement engine that would bolt directly into their existing trucks without changing other parts.

But none of that has anything to do with the issue at hand here, which is trying to help the OP get the most out of whatever it is that he bought here.

Flat-tappet cams were fine for many, many years; for as long as the corect additives were present in motor oil to support them, specifically. However, now that those additives have been regulated OUT of off-the-shelf oil and relegated exclusively to $$$$specialty$$$$ oils, which most likely will also be regulated out of existence in the foreseeable future, the flat-tappet system is basically obsolete, for new construction anyway. I quit building them about a decade ago myself, haven't built anything but rollers this century. Too much risk with the old stuff. Doesn't mean a flat-tappet cam can't make a motor run good; just, the odds of catastrophic total devastation failure is too high for someone's appetite for risk, who doesn't want to have to take a chance on rebuilding a motor TWICE just to save a few pennies the first time. That "savings" disappears IN A HURRY when a cam lobe flattens. Others may feel differently about that.

 

what, may I ask, are the "specialty oils" that would help a flat tappet cam last longer? I am finishing up a 350 rebuild on a '80 vette block and did not put a roller in it. I would, of course, like to get as many "stomp on it" daily driver miles out of it over the next seveal years so what would you recommend and what would you avoid. I planned on running synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 or ???

Thanks

 

So to ask about all this being said, i do want this engine to last me without problems and being all the parts you helped me with is there anything else you would recommend changing out on this type of engine to get it running where i dont have a risk taken for another rebuild?

 

The weight is just in a different position
I have had this argument for years across the forums.
General belief is internal balance is better than ext balance for perf use ( less stress on crank ? ) so guys say 2 pce crank is better than 1 pce which is " externally " balanced

Not helped of course by all the flywheel manufactures referring to a 1 pce RMS engine as being Ext balanced

 

The type of oil I was referring to contains ZDDP, an additive no longer allowed to be used in oil because it's so poisonous. You can get racing oils that have it, and additives as well; but don't bet on those even continuing to be available for very many more years.

Synthetic oil is PARTICULARLY BAD to use with flat-tappet cams during initial break-in. Don't do that. In that system, the lifter is convex and the cam lobe is taller on the rear edge than the front, such that the only contact point between the lifter and the olbe is supposed to be out near the edge of the lifter, which applies a force to it tending to rotate it. This makes the interface of that surface into a rolling setup rather than sliding. If it fails to rotate, the lobe will rapidly wear a groove into the lifter face, and it will fail within a few thousand miles. Just a few minutes of the engine running with a lifter failing to rotate will destroy the lifter past salvaging. Synthetic oil is too "slippery", and will allow the parts to slide instead of rotating, and therefore MUST NOT be used during the critical first few minutes of engine operation. It's good to use starting with the first oil change but MUST NOT be used as the initial fill fluid. If you use a roller cam, none of this applies; you can run synthetic from the get-go, like most of the factories do nowadays, especially with high-perf engines. The Vette for example was getting M1 at the Bowling Green plant by 1987 model-year production.

As far as the "balance" thing, the flywheel mfrs mostly just gave up on being "correct". since all it does is create confusion among people who don't understand balancing an engine (which would be about 99.999% of their customers), and just go along with the "general public" misuse of the terms.

1122, as far as other things to buy/do/install/whatever, once you get the heads and valve train set up and built as described, you should be good to go. Since your motor will have a flat-tappet cam, the oil issue applies to you. Be particularly careful to lube the cam lobes properly. Get a bottle of GM EOS or similar additive with plenty of ZDDP, pour about half the bottle onto the cam right before putting the intake on, and pour the rest into the oil. Use a good quality NON-SYNTHETIC motor oil, I would suggest Shell Rotella T straight 30 weight. Fill the oil filter before installing it. Be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the engine is ready to IMMEDIATELY fire up and run for a half-hour whenever you are ready to start it: no extended cranking because you forgot something, no "just to see if it will run", no "I want to hear what it sounds like", NONE OF THAT. That means, the complete cooling system installed and full, exhaust installed, some gas in the tank, timing light at the ready, etc. Get it as absolutely close as possible to being able to close the hood and go for a test drive THE VERY FIRST TIME YOU CRANK IT UP. Not that you'll necessarily do that, but apply that discipline of having it COMPLETELY COMPLETE, before start-up. One difference from that will be, you'll probably want to leave the valve covers off, so you can adjust the rockers with it running.

The first time you start it, keep the RPMs above about 1500 for the first 15 minutes or so. Don't let them drop below 1000. Keep the engine running for the whole time which is why you want the cooling system completely assembled and full of fluid.

I cannot overemphasize the mental discipline of keeping your hand off the ignition key until it is COMPLETE. Personally I like to actually install the hood and close it, to help enforce that: I won't start a new engine until the air cleaner is on, the wiring is all buttoned up, all the fluids are full, the wheels are on, and it's ready to be let down off the jack stands. I prefer to be able to just reach in the window and turn the key the first time and have them fire RIGHT UP. If you focus your mind on that approach, you will have the least amount of trouble with start-up.

Remember: COMPLETE before start-up, and MENTAL DISCIPLINE.

 

Hey everyone, this was a dead thread but i have a few questions. I got this engine completely rebuilt. All internals except the pistons were junk from the nitrous the previous owner ran on it. I still had the vortec heads, changed the cam to a X262H cam with this lifters, airgap intake, holley 670 vac sec carb, pulleys, and hooker headers. Overall i know this engine wont have the power i want and since theres not much more to do except have it rebuilt again with new internals i was thinking about a single turbo. Would you think the way the engine sits now it can take some boost? Not saying like 25 lb of boost but more like 6-10lb? I just want alittle more to what i have, what do you think or recommend?

 

How do you know that?

How does it run? Got dyno numbers or time slips yet?

How much "power" do you "want"? Why? How short of that are you new?

How's the gas mileage?

How did break-in go? Did it fire RIGHT UP like I said, and all the push rods rotate? Have you run it long enough yet to switch to synthetic at your first oil change?

 

No dyno papers yet since the cars getting finished with the exhaust welded together and some wiring getting completed. The reason i say is because i've spoken to a member in here with the same heads and cam with his being a 355 and he's making around 350-360 hp and running what stock LS1's do in the quarter about 13.5. Im trying to get a true 450 hp with a low boost since my internals are all stock and i'm not trying to break anything, the break-in a performance shop did which is where my car has been and still is. Car still needs tunning here and there. Gas milage i have no idea yet but guessing 11-14 mpg maybe more or less.

 

Well before deciding up front that it's not enough, I'd suggest getting it on the road and seeing how you like it. You might be surprised. You might also find that there's more to going fast than just "HP", and that you need to spend your money and effort in some other direction.

Yes 360 HP is a reasonable expectation for your combo. The 5 extra inches from maintenance that some other people might have will make no material difference to the engine output, so what you see them getting, is a good guide to what you'll get.

Meanwhile you've got a bare-bones light-duty bottom end, intended and built for low-RPM, low-stress, long-service type of use. Its limits will become apparent REAL QUICK, if abused by things like .... excessive RPM, or boost; probably suddenly and without warning, and will leave little salvageable. What you've done to it is about all it will stand for any length of time. I'd suggest, if you get it on the road and discover it's not enough, leave it alone, and start work on your "next" project, while leaving this one intact.