Alright guys, here is my whole deal here.. I own a 1986 Z28, and my dad owns a 1986 Monte Carlo SS. I have inherited an original 300hp 327 from a 1966 Chevelle. I would like to swap this into my Camaro. My dad however seems to think that he can build a 305 better and beat my 327. My problem is that he has about 35 years on me at building engines, and I don't have heads, intake, or a carb for this 327. Any suggestions or tips?

 

Take a whole lot of building to match the stock 327. And a cam change in the 327 would really wake it up. Vortec heads, medium performance camshaft, a dialed in quadrajet carb and ole dad will be eating your dust.

 

With full exhaust, bowl blended stock heads, cam, and intake, the 305 could easily be competing.

If he would take it further and fully port the heads with bigger valves, and a cam to bring in peak power over 6k he could really put the hurt on your 327.

I do agree with Tom3 that the 327 has the advantage.

If your Dad is anything like mine (ornery as hell) you my find a "Sneaky Pete" under his seat just to prove his point.

What are your plans/budget with the motor?

 

Well, I have some ideas on heads and a cam, and from the sounds of it, he may have something up his sleeve. I was looking at Comp Cams 12-242-2 Xtreme energy cam, and it seems to be a pretty nice cam for what i'm building. I'd like to make this a streetable car that can blow off the occasional rice burner, and dad. I can't take the lowest horsepower 305 that came in these cars anymore.. lol

 

Bman what is your exhaust setup now?

Having the same year and motor as you I can tell you from experience that headers and full 3" exhaust is a real solid upgrade. I picked up a ET estimated 60hp over what GM rated it stock with this, open element and tuning. No doubt the best "first" upgrade and it carries over to any SBC you put in there too.

Stock Vortec heads would be OK on a tight budget but after paying to make them no longer just "truck heads" you are in aftermarket territory. A good 180cc aftermarket Vortec style head should have the minimum cross sectional area you need to bring peak power in at 6k with out locking up the port. EQ, RHS, Patriot, all have comparable heads like this.

That cam is not bad but I would honestly go a little more aggressive, or retard it with 1.6rr to get it to hold power a bit longer.

 

Alright, Right now I just have the stock 2.5" setup that i had to replace from the Y-pipe back when i got the car because the original stuff fell off driving it home. (yes i bought the car for $500) what type of headers would you suggest?

 

It's 22 cubic inches, you have a slight advantage. What are the rules here? It wouldn't be fair if he was running aftermarket or even vortec heads and you were running the 305 heads.
If you both were limited to the 305 heads, it's still not possible to tell who the winner is. Their is way too many things to factor like gears, stall, and weight differences of the vehicles. In equal conditions, the larger displacement motor will always build more power.

 

Get exhaust for a 350 car with a single cat. Do not buy anything made for a 305 car the pipes are smaller. There are a lot of different ways to go here but you just need to get a 3" mandrel bent exhaust all the way back from the Y-pipe. Pressure bent tubes like stock and stock replacement is garbage do not use it. On a tight budget the "house brand" from JEG's will be a good.

The headers/exhaust really depends on the budget you got to work with. Deep pockets? Coated hooker 2055's are great. Any chassis specific header will be light-years ahead of the junk GM put on there. If you want a 3" y-pipe the only one's I know of off the shelf are Hooker 2055, Edelbrock 68723, Doug's Headers D3322.

 

What size are the primaries on the 2055 headers?

 

That small bore in the 305 is the big limiting factor with the 305. Takes a lot of building to get 300 hp with that motor. A 327 can fall out the back of the scrap truck and put out 300hp. But one factor that will really hurt you is that 2;73 rear gear. I think the SS Monte Carslow has a 3;70 - and that does make a big difference.

 

I agree Tom it's the heads that make the stock 327 great. That is why they do so well in Super Stock class racing. You won't come close with untouched heads on the 305.

Making power on SBC is all the same though some just have better bases.

Bman1320 hooker 2055's are 1 5/8 IIRC.

 

"A 327 can fall out the back of the scrap truck and put out 300hp"



I kinda like the 327 just for nostalgia's sake. It's a pretty venerable number to find on the valve covers :]

 

Yeah, my gear is killing me too, but I can't seem to find anyone with a posi carrier for the 3.73's that I pulled out of a scrap blazer.. I'm looking to probably put a 2500 stall converter in it too, so it's still streetable but can still go..

 

i just did this exact same thing to my 91, but the 327 is a drag motor. 1 thing i ran into that nobody could help me with was, the back of the crankshaft on the 327 is not as deep as a 350, 400 etc crank. so what happens is the converter will not fit flush against the flexplate. im using the original 700r4 trans. so after pulling and installing the motor twice. i just got some grade 8 bolts and washers to take up the gap. the only fix is having the back of the crank machined, and my motor was fully assembled, so i wasnt tearing it all apart. i just fired it today and there seems to be no problems with it...just an fyi

 

Thanks for the info 91RS that would be a problem for me as well. I plan on using the same transmission.. let me know if you ever come across any problems with your fix, I may do the same..

 

the 305 shares the same stroke as a 350, and ironicly the 327 shares the same bore. because of the shorter stroke the 327 will rev faster and a little higher easier. that leaves the 305 with supposedly more low end power. and the weights are almost the same too. this site sais the z28's curb weight is about 3300 lbs. give or take options. wiki sais the monte weighs about 3200 lbs.

I say put in turbo 350s with matching rear gears and go at it. I say the 327 has a higher potential. mostly because of faster reving and more cubes.

 

Yes, it would be possible to build a 305 that would outrun a stock '66 300 HP 327.

Do the same things to the 327 that you do to the 305, and the 327 would always outrun the 305.

'66 300 HP 327 heads were the cat's meow in 1966. Vortec heads would outrun the best you could do porting '66 300 HP 327 heads. Keeping stock '66 300 HP 327 heads on would be an exercise is frustration - they wouldn't have the accessory bolt holes to mount 3rd gen accessories, they won't have hardened exhaust seats or valves.

Put these http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-d...ter/sd8060arpm on the 327, and no matter what your dad does with the 305, you'll be one step ahead of him. The cam you listed is okay, but the XE274 would be even better.

 

Does Scoggin Dickey sell the same heads without the intake?

 

hey guys, kinda off topic but not really.... I have come across a 69 chevy 302 and was wondering exactly how hard it would be to make it work in my 85 trans am w/ tpi, and would my acc such as power steering pump water pump and all bolt onto it or were the blocks diff?

 

Yes.

 

If it's "genuine", it would make more sense to sell it to a collector/restorer, and use the proceeds to build an engine that would outrun it, drive better than it, last longer than it (with unleaded fuel), and get better economy than it.

 

well i have found one complete and in awesome shape minus the intake for 250 bucks... worth the buy?

 

No.

That's about a $4000 - 5000 motor, if it's for real. If somebody is selling it for $250, then either there's something SO BAD wrong with it that it has ABSOLUTELY NO POSSIBILITY WHATSOEVER of ever working again, or it's not "genuine", or it's stolen.

100% ironclad bulleproof guarantee of some kind of a rip-off in progress, right there. I wouldn't touch it.

OBTW - on the subject of the "300 HP 327", that was the low-perf 4-bbl that year. A very ordinary, plain-Jane motor, as it came, with poor head castings, lame 929 cam, and so forth. If you were to use the MODERN "ratings" system to "rate" it, it would be "rated" at about 215 - 225 HP in a vehicle. Not hard to equal or excel with a 305, although pointless to do so, since it would cost EXACTLY THE SAME to build a 350 that would then run circles around the 327. No sensible person would waste that much money on a 305 to produce that little power, given the alternatives.

 

I would pass personally ville_valo_05. But it is of those "to each his own" things, nothing too terrible about the idea. A 305 or a 327 can make plenty of power. If you really are interested in building motors buy it and get a stand and toy with it.

Yes a all things equal 327 makes more power, and a 350 makes more power then it, and a 400 more. Someone will always have more power then you so don't go chasing your tail. Build whatever and make it as fast you dare.

five7kid aren't those just worked over stock replacements? That cam with a good 180cc aftermarket casting would just scream in a 327.

These are along the lines of what I was thinking of; http://www.jegs.com/i/Patriot-Perfor...ductId=1192214

 

well i found it on craigslist and don't know much about those motors

here is the link for the ad http://statesboro.craigslist.org/pts/2080633950.html

 

Better springs, cut guides for more lift. The kit includes everything needed to install them, including self-aligning rockers. While you could go with aftermarket castings, you will spend more money for not much more power.

The ones you linked would include screw-in studs and guide plates. The 185cc would require a 327 to scream more to avoid the low-end power loss they would produce.

 

Typical... TKX is the suffix code for a heavy duty truck or bus from the mid 70s. An original 302 can only have a DZ suffix code.

 

Good point! For whatever reason I read he found a "327" before I posted.

Five7 that is a good deal if it comes with rockers too. Are they stamped roller tips? If I were to use those on a 327 I would go with less cam, something more suited for 5.5k RPM just based off their volume.

The bigger valved 180cc would be better matched to a 230/234 IMO. There may be a slight difference in low end power but by 2-3k RPM that's the bigger head will be making more power when it counts.

That said either of those would make your dad's 305 have to work wonders. But don't count out Nitrous Oxide, he might mysteriously put a few car lengths on you.

 

ok thanks for the info

 

What is your budget?

Do you know if that 327 has a forged crank?

My .02$ says to tear it down, rebuild it with some new rods and pistons, and put about $1000-1500 into some aluminum heads (180-200cc's) get some compression (10:1 +) and you'll have a nice sounding 400+ hp engine. of course more cubes always wins in the end, you might have a good baseline for a good engine.

i myself have an original forged 327 crank in a .060" over block. my brother will be building it to have 400+ hp. the only disadvantage with a 327 is the you need to spin it a little higher to make then same power that a 350 or 383 is making at a lower rpm.


Like everyone has said... "good" heads in 1960-1970 are junk compared to what can be had now for $1000. i say get some brodix IK 180's, or some IK200's if you feel like making trouble. if you get all the components matched right i.e. heads, cam, compression, etc., you can have a good motor for a decent price.

one more disadvantage... the more power you want out of a smaller engine, price goes up, but only past a certain point.

 

I do not believe the 327 I have has a forged crank. I'm kind of going for a slightly more than budget build. The thing with my motor is that I don't have heads or an intake on it yet. It is bored .060 over with the bottom end still in it. All i really plan on doing with the bottom end is tearing it down, inspect it, and throw n a new set of bearings if everything is good. I'll probably get it externally balanced and call it good. i'm really concerned about building up the top end pretty decently.

 

tear it down before you spend a dime for that motor!!! a 60 over 66 327 block is at it's limit your just asking for an over heating motor and one scratch or nick in a cylinder wall and that block is junk. only worth it if you are building the numbers matching 66 chevelle it came from.

 

Need to know $$$$ before going on.

The least you could do is 416 casting heads. Not going to be a trophy winner but on a tight budget could feed a 327 to 5kish. I measured the set I just took off my car the volume is 165cc and the mcsa at the pushrod pinch is 1.74. Replacing the rev limiting valve would be a step up funds depending. The cross section under the valve seat is 2.01 but with the valve in there it's much smaller, even more so with stock valves. Back cutting and undercutting the valve your self is NOT a bad idea at all here, you will pick up noticeable power.

Step up from there would be stock Vortec heads. Not measured them my self but read they are 170cc with a smaller 1.66 mcsa at the prp. In stock trim that is good for 5.4-5.5k peak power before you want to think bigger.

 

well get the oil pan off and look for a casting line (narrow) or forging line (about 1/2" wide). what kind of pistons does it have? depending upon the pistons, and condition the the cylinders, you get get some decent power out of this deal.

if it is all cast parts in poor condition, build a 383, same cost to build as any other sbc from the ground up.

 

The 327 motor is good motor to build up I'm running a 327 in a 82 camaro. Been playing with the car for about 2 years maybe. It's not hard to get over 400 hp out of the motor. I have a 1965 block and if remember right all 327 had a steel crank I maybe wrong, I use to now all this stuff. Your 66 block should a have steel crank.

 

Well, I've picked up a 350 that just needs to be gone through with seals and bearings, so I'll have a bit more money for heads and such, thank you for the valuable information. I will be posting pictures and such on the progress when I start this project.

 

my dad said he has a 327 motor laying around and i have a 305 in my 85 z28 what would it take to swap a 305 to 327 is it as easy as a 350 swap thanks.

 

Simple, finishing mine up now. All your really gonna need is a flexplate/flywheel because the 305 one will not fit on the 327.

 

Wrong... up to 85 ones will fit any 85-back SBC. Except of course the 400, which they'll "fit", but there are other problems there besides "fit".

Yes a 327 is as easy to swap as a 350, because from the outside, they are THE SAME THING. You just get less for all your money and effort. Only significant potential problem is the heads; if the 327 has heads without the accessory bolt goles in the ends, it WILL NOT work in one of these cars, unless you spend more on $$$$special$$$ brackets than it would take to get a motor whose heads WILL work.