Mr Froman

Have the LB9 now. 305 TPI. Everyone bugs me with the "pointless to rebuild a 305" whenever we talk about my car. I look at it a little differently I guess. I mean I still have some fun with the 305 and a 350 would be some extra power but I don't know if it would be worth the extra money spent on a different fuel pump, injectors, PROM, knock sensor and whatever else you need.

Also, I got to thinking about emissions and gas mileage. How much worse would they be? Anyone have an idea?

leo037

I can't speak for everyone but I did a swap about 12 yeard ago on a 87 305 TPI. I only changed the long block and used all the same parts from the 305 and a fuel presure regulator to increase my fuel presure to the injectors. I got more power, passed smog and got beter gas milege. Now before everyone tell me thats not posible this is what happend to my car and I hope it can work for your too.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I would say it is less likely that your 305 needs rebuilding than it is a 350 will cause an increase in emissions and a decrease in fuel economy.

Mr Froman

So you're saying worse emissions and worse fuel mileage if a 350 was put in?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

No, I'm questioning why the topic of rebuilding the 305 came up.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Emissions are generally measured (at the "inspection" level, it's different at the mfr level) in % or ppm of whatever pollutant. It's expressed as a fraction of the total amount of exhaust. Since the 305 and 350 are basically identical motors except for their bore dia, then in equal states of tune, their emissions will be identical.

It takes x amount of power to push a car with y weight and friction at z mph. Therefore the gas mileage doesn't change much based on engine size. Other factors are more important.

Fuel pump is the same AFAIK between a 305 and 350 TPI setup.

Yes it is pointless to rebuild a 305, when for the SAME money, you can have 15% more motor. Kind of like, you go to the gas station, and you can hand over your $3 or whatever, and get 1 gallon of gas; but don't you think it would be better if you handed over that same $3, and NOTHING ELSE CHANGED except you got 1.15 gal of gas??? What's so tough to understand about this? Can I help by explaining the part you aren't sure about more fully somehow? That's EXACTLY the reason why it's pointless to rebuild a 305.

eseibel67

A larger engine that pumps more air also uses more fuel.

The OP already has a 305 to rebuild. Rebuilding a 350 would require him to PURCHASE a 350, and then pay for a rebuild.

Some posters are just so fuquing dumb.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

A larger engine uses only SLIGHTLY more fuel, if any at all, because it requires THE SAME AMOUNT OF WORK to move the car around no matter what the engine size.

A 350 short block core costs about $50 at the junkyard. Less than the cost of the fluids you dump in it after teh rebuild. Machine work is the same price. Parts are the same price, except 350 pistons are actually CHEAPER if you want anything besides "rebuilder" stuff. Meaning, it's NOT AT ALL impossible that you could BUY a 350 and rebuild it for LESS THAN rebuilding a "free" or "paid for" 305.

Some posters are just so fuquing dumb. They just don't GET IT.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Again I ask, "Why did the subject of rebuilding the 305 come up?"

Okay, I'll ask another way: "Why are you thinking the 305 needs to be rebuilt?"

I ask, because about 90% of the time, what is thought to be wrong will not require a rebuild to fix. Well, maybe it's closer to 95% of the time...

Mr Froman

No no no...I think people are getting the wrong idea. Whenever someone asks about my Formula, they ask if it has a 350 or a 305. After I tell them it's a 305, I always get the "You should swap a 350 in there, 305's are junk." My engine runs just fine now.

I was looking at it more from a person who actually has to deal with paying for it and possibly take it through inspection a hundred times point of view.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

nothing wrong with a LB9. unless you have to replace it, don't even think about "upgrading" to a 350.

If the engine was toast, well then you have a decision to make

Mr Froman

Right, no way I'd dump it now. At this point I'm just trying to gather data really, in case I decided to do an upgrade if this motor were to go. Trying to weigh out the good and the bad I guess. Emissions and gas mileage are two things that I had unanswered.

pv2johnson

ok where the hell are you guys getting a 350 block for around 50$ because here in Oklahoma they are a lot more than that.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

:shrug: Junkyard? Iunno, just a thought, no doubt that's an odd place to go for junk parts but w/e...

Go find one in some TBI truck with about a million miles on it and cracked heads or something. Some total turd. THAT'S ALL YOU NEED, no sense in buying a working one. Look for some steaming piece of dog plop, that if you don't buy it, it's going to the crusher. They'll GLADLY take $50 for that, instead of 63.8¢ or whatever the cast-iron is worth.

It's not rocket science, just a car; and some common business sense.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

I must also mention, that if a 305 SHORT BLOCK has nothing wrong with it, that there's no immediate requirement to yank it out and replace it with a 350. If it WORKS, and does what you want it to do, a 305 is perfectly fine.

The place to draw the line is when it's time to rebuild the short block. THe 305 ends there. Cams, heads, carbs, exhaust, tuning, yeah sure; short block, THROW IT IN THE TRASH. Since it costs EXACTLY THE SAME to buy and build a 350 as it does to build your "paid for" 305, it is PURE ECONOMIC STUPIDITY AND SUICIDE to spend $xxxx building a 305, when for the EXACT SAME $xxxx virtually TO THE PENNY, you can have a 350 instead.

The OP asked about 305 vs 350 comparisons; not so much about "does my 305 need rebuilt". That's a whole other question for a whole other post, and probably a legitmate question at that, because lots of times people have driveability or cooling or electrical system problems and think that they're going to attempt to fix them by "rebuilding" the motor. Truth of the matter is, AHELLUVALOTTA motors get "rebuilt" that don't need it, and it's not impossible that the OP's would fall into that category... where he'd install a "rebuilt" motor, and STILL have to deal with a gummed-up carb, leaky radiator, intermittent wiring, or whatever other nagging problems he has that he'd like to make disappear but WON'T by "rebuilding" the motor. As said, that's a whole other question, for a whole other post, if the OP wants to go there.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

http://www.uautopullitautoparts.com/...&id=7&Itemid=5

Short Block $68
Long Block $98
Complete Engine $188

andy74

fuquing dumb! hahaha i like it!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You said in your original post, "Everyone bugs me with the "pointless to rebuild a 305" whenever we talk about my car." That's why all the talk about rebuilding a 305 vs. 350.

Okay, let's reset. You are now saying, "My engine runs just fine now." Well, does that mean you're happy with the way it runs? If so, then just smile and nod when someone says, "305's are junk." No, they are not. They run fine, run clean, get decent fuel economy, and tend to last a very long time with no more than routine maintenance. About the worst complaint with them is the valve stem seals tend to harden, crack, and leak. But, guess what? The same thing happens to 350's!

So, are you happy with your car? Sounds like you are.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I agree...
it's also possible that most people with a basic familiarity of camaros think that 305=tbi and 350=TPI, and you can just laugh at their ignorance

pv2johnson

thanks for the link. i ask where you guys are getting them because even junkyards want about 400 for a block here. wicth is a ridiculous price imo

Mad_IROC-Z

I completely agree with that. The idea that a "V6" is a "gas saver" is bull!
With more power you can push your gas pedal less while the guy with less power has to push his more for both to achieve the same result.
Now when you have more power then its you wanting to use all that power that gives the poor MPGs'

andy74

i get that all the time at the dealership,a smaller engine doesnt guarentee better fuel economy,4.8 liter trucks get the same or worse than 5.3,and the 5.3 doesnt work as hard either-just my 2 cents

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No they don't.

If you CALL them on the phone, that's what they'll tell you. There, here, or anywhere. OTOH, if you physically walk to the yard and point to some wasted piece of dung that's about to get loaded into the melt-down dumpster, they'll tell you something COMPLETELY else. "Yeah we're about to throw that one away and get 63.8¢ for it, but we won't let YOU have it unless you fork over $400". Sure. You just gotta know how to speak their language.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

you must have a different breed of junkyard where you live. Around here, all the lots big enough to have decent cars all have a set price list, and they don't budge a dime on price.

Oh and prices are 75%of what you would pay at a dealership. I don't go to junkyards much anymore, its cheaper to get the stuff from ebay, and it's all delivered right to my door

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What does "big enough", "decent cars", and all that hooey, have to do with BLOCKS?

You're in Texas d00d. People have TRUCKS there. Screw worrying about a bunch of CARS. Go find some place out in the sticks where people send old farm TRUCKS to die. THAT'S where you buy BLOCKS from; not some sanitary, "safe" You-Pick-It kind of retail consumer place in a city where you walk up to the counter and the pretty little high-school chick runs your credit card. Go where the PROFESSIONALS go.

Common business sense. And a little bit of thought, effort, elbow grease, and hustle, instead of laziness and making excuses. The parts are out there, if you just exert yourself a tiny bit.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

I ALWAYS get good deals at the U-Auto-Pull-It.

The POSI Rear that i just got WITH 11.5 Disc Brakes was a whopping $65. What's wrong with that?

I got a Complete set of Salad Shooter wheels off of a 4th gen for $68 after tax, and they had good tires on them.

Got a Holley 4BBL 600CFM carb there for $35

Got a PAIR of good 4th gen seats for $30.

The Yards that i go to will let you keep the tools you find out there. I got a 36" Crowbar and a 36" Pipe Wrench recently for NOTHING! The Trick to that is looking behind the seats of Pickup Trucks. I ALWAYS declare tools that i find, and they always tell me to keep them.

So long as you go to the yard regularly, you're likely to find some really good deals. They don't want to keep the cars forever in a place like that, so they sell the parts cheap. When the car is Stripped, they crush it. The Difference with the Mom and Pop shops is that they try to get as much as they can off the cars before they're crushed. They don't mind keeping them a little longer if they can sell more of the car.

Mad_IROC-Z

Its not like that everywhere.
I got a great pair of bucket seats 25 years ago for $40. Now that get at least that much per seat here.

I was looking at composite headlights and they wanted $35 each plus core... a CORE... REALLY?!?!?! Who rebuilds them!

Plus they get tax, enviromental fees, recycle fees, yard fees. They are tight azz' here!

Oh and I bought a manual drivers mirror for my brothers Camaro. I flipped when the guy said $16. He told me he sells them for $40 of ****-e-bay. You can get a power mirror set up for $75 from guys there easy!
And $30 for my bowtie grille

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Do we have a beating-a-dead-horse smilie? The OP isn't talking about swapping in a 350.

pv2johnson

no the question is about emissions. both are about the same on emissions. if you're worried about not passing emissions go with a ls engine you get loads more power and lower emissions than the older style engine. start building it now that way when your old 305 does go you have it ready to go and built the way you want it.

hartsmike

I agree! It's all about the torque... Now, if you build the "dickens" out of it and cam it up that changes it as well.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

People don't seem to be able to stay on topic, so to avoid further spats, we'll just .

Mr Froman, if you want to continue this discussion, PM me and I'll reopen.