Right now I have a factor 305 engine in my 86 camaro and I want to get a new engine with at least 400 hp to drop in.

Where is a good place to look for engines for someone that doesn't know a whole lot about all the technical numbers? I would really like something completely built that I just need to drop in, I can handle that much. Obviously I would like to get out as cheap as I can too.

I found one engine build guide that came out to almost 450hp for 3500 dollars where all the parts were ordered seperately and assembled (used block machined out and all).

Thanks for any advice!

 

if you wanna learn (which id suggest) pick up some books and get studying, the more you learn the more money youll save in the long run, think about it your paying shop fees and everything else for them to build you something for something you put some hard work into and save ALOT of money. it all depends what you wanna do, do you wanna learn or do you wanna buy? or you can pick up an engine stand and get started.

 

Well I would like to learn, but my main problem atm is I don't have a shop I can just leave stuff in. I have a shop I can use for a day or two on the weekends but thats about it. So it's hard for me to piece together an engine and learn how to do it as I go since I'm sure I will need to have the stuff in the shop for more than a day or two hehe.

And atm it's cheaper to pay someone a few hundred bucks extra to have it put together for me than it is for me to spend 15 or 20k on a descent sized shop in my yard =P

 

you could always pick up one of those little throw up garages for like 200$ if you have the tools and everything id say go for it.. you dont need much really, some parts even come preassembled, just slap it on the block.. its your choice really. i mean you could look through the GMPP catalogue to see what you can find.. depends what you want, i see 400+hp you could get that from a 350. or a 383 easily. do some searching.

 

Assembling an engine isn't hard... doing it correctly for a higher application setup is a different story.

 

Even if I did buy a small buildling like that to work on it myself in, the question still remains on where to buy the stuff. Am I best off buying a used block from somewhere like AA Midwest and getting it bored / milled out, or buying a engine locally from a wreck or something like that?

Will any chevy 350 engine work or are there slight differences in the blocks for different year models?

This is the website I found that did a build for less than 3500 dollars using a Vortec 350 core from AA Midwest

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ock/index.html

That one got 447hp, which is a little more than I want, I just want to have over 400hp so that I know I'm gonna have more than 300 hp at the rear wheel. But that was also 2 years ago so prices may have gone up since then.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MLL-BP3830CT1/

On sale, even.

 

i bought this a year ago


http://high-performance-engines.com/...duct_Code=HP32

 

I have about $800 into mine...I got the block (already painted) oil pan and all the internals from a machine shop advertised on craigslist for $300 I got a set of camel hump heads (all redone) and brand new comp cam and lifters 284 dur 481 lift both for $300 rebuilt 650 carb, edelbrock performer intake $200. O and he gave me new timing chain and gears. I just bought a new set of flat top pistons to replace the stock ones $60... So about $860....you don't have to spend $3,000 take your time and do a little shopping. Btw I'm building mine in a 6 by 6 shed! Lol

 

Thanks for the suggestions thus far (still welcome more if anyone has some).

I did actually see that Blueprint engine on Summit, and was considering something like that, the thing I dont like about it is if I'm reading it correctly those BluePrint engines pretty much come with no warranty.

They also don't include the other components like carb, water pump, etc like the build plan I linked does. So it would end up costing a bit more for the same or lower results, and seems to me the only reason to do that would be if it gave a warranty, which as I said it appears it does not.

I would love to find some good deals and build something like k88-79 is talking about for cheap, I just don't ever see any good deals like that lol.

 

"Auto Crate engines carry a 30-month or 50,000-mile warranty." That's a pretty decent warranty.

They didn't include labor in that $3500. You said, "I would really like something completely built that I just need to drop in" - expect to pay more.

Note on page 4 of the linked article: "Speed-O-Motive helped us build our motor and can build you a near replica of our budget Vortec 350-the only difference will be an upgrade to stainless steel roller rockers, a Pertronix Flame Thrower HEI, and a Holley 750 double-pumper. The price of $5,450 includes assembly, dyno tuning, and free shipping." {emphasis added}

If it sounds too good to be true...

 

It's not to good to be true! It happened!

 

that is an excellent point. You don't have a place to do this and thus need to pay someone. And, in order to find deals like the one that caught your attention you simply need to be lucky. It is the exception and not the rule.

Can it be done? Of course it can. But, scan the local ads and on line and you will find a consistent watermark of where pricing is. That is called market value.

If you look around you can probably find a junker and slap together something that might leak unless of course you want to pay over $1,000 in machine shop charges and get those junker engines that are everywhere prepared properly.

 

edit: oh, and why do you "need 400 HP" ? Have you even taken a ride in a bolt on LT1 or LS1 4th gen? Those aren't 400HP cars but will kick the rear end out from you.
When you read forums such as this you will see endless posts about "need to supercharge, need twin turbos, need 400-500HP" and those posters tend not to know all the supporting work that must go into supporting that kind of power. That is if you want to do it correctly. Let's say that you drop $4,000 after paying someone to put in a built engine (that's cheap by the way). You then go out, punch it and your teenage friends all talk you into racing and doing burnouts and then you hear CLUNK.........buh bye tranny........$1600 later (you need someone to do it) and you have a stock rebuild put back into your car. Or, you could pay over $2k and get a beefier tranny because the stock rebuild will die again.

Then you have the rear end to worry about. So, again, why do you "need 400HP"?

when it comes to modifying and increasing power in vehicles, reality has a way of slapping us in the face at the most inconvenient time. Experience is the best teacher that guides you how to do it properly with all the supporting items also done. It won't be cheap if you want it done right.

 

"Auto Crate engines carry a 30-month or 50,000-mile warranty. Marine Crate engines carry a 12-month warranty. Circle Track and short block engines carry no warranty. BluePrint Engines expressly warrants that its engines are of good quality and free from defects in materials or workmanship."

If you read the rest of that Warranty link, it really looks like they are referring to Auto Crate as a brand (notice the capital C as if it's a proper name). I could be wrong, I don't know engine brand names and such, but it really looks like that warranty is talking about 4 different types of engines and the Blueprint part of it is pretty much saying that it's only warrantied to be free from defects on arrival.

I also said I would like to get out as cheap as I can. The main reason I want something built that I can just drop in is due to my work space limitations. But I might be about to correct that, I may purchase a small building soon that I can do work in. Mainly specifically for this project.

I actually missed that part saying they could build a replica of it. But if I put up a small shop I'd rather do the labor myself and learn, in my spare time as that's probably half the cost of the engine.

Well I never said I "need 400hp" I said I want 400hp. I know I don't need it, it's simply the number I'm aiming for. I do plan to eventually redo my transmission and rear end as well. Don't worry I don't have any teenage friends that are going to be tempting me to race or anything, they are far to young for me to hang out with lol.

It's simply this is my project car, and I want the 400 hp number. I know I'm not going to be fully happy with my project unless I meet my goal. Much like when I build a computer (I'm a computer programmer by profession), I don't need a 4ghz six core computer with 24gbs of ram, but I wanted it so I built it.

I don't mind doing the labor myself to save money, I'm fully capable of figuring everything out, engines are pretty simple machines when you break it down. My main concern for fully built vs me building it is workspace. So right now I'm trying to price stuff and see if it would be cheaper for me to buy one built, or to put up a small building to work in and build it myself.

I did browse through my local craigslist yesterday. Found one guy not to far that sales, builds, and installs engines. He has a vortek 350 block with the cam and pistons right now for sale at $325. If I decide to put up a building I'm probably going to contact him about that one or maybe a 383 that he has.

 

You could buy you an assembled Short Block & go from there. Heads/intake/etc. is basically easy stuff. It it the crank/rods/pistons/ring/etc. that are "hard".

Buy the assembled Short Block, buy the assembled heads & from there it is almost a bolt together. Just need to watch details like compression & head gaskets, when choosing heads & their chamber size. But Summit/Jegs/etc, can help you with choosing that. Just takes a little work on your end knowing your Short Block.

Or just step up to a Long Block & from there it is a "no brainer" to bolt the rest together. On the cam, Short or Long Block, you'll need to consider if your going FI which would mean tuning the PROM after installing it in your car or tuning a carb, which isn't REAL hard. Just gotta learn to or have a good friend who can.

 

[QUOTE=torque_is_good;4824131]that is an excellent point. You don't have a place to do this and thus need to pay someone. And, in order to find deals like the one that caught your attention you simply need to be lucky. It is the exception and not the rule.

Can it be done? Of course it can. But, scan the local ads and on line and you will find a consistent watermark of where pricing is. That is called market value.

If you look around you can probably find a junker and slap together something that might leak unless of course you want to pay over $1,000 in machine shop charges and get those junker engines that are everywhere prepared properly.[/QUOTE
I never said a good deal was the norm. I just said it can be done. Geez excuse me for trying to save someone a couple grand!

 

Steven6282, that's a good deal! See it can be done.. I think your right it would be so much better to do the work yourself and learn. That's what I'm doing...I haven't started yet... We should keep in touch and maybe help each other out along the way. Then we can bragg to everyone we built these ourselves! Lol

 

I wasn't attacking you. But, reality is what it is. I've found great deals in the past but it's when I'm not really looking or in a rush. There are some folks who have items and need to sell quickly for any cash they can get. That is the sad reality of today's economy.

There's nothing wrong with building an engine yourself. I've done it in the past yet this time, I took the lazy way out and brought it to a shop and dropped it off for a rebuild. I found a reasonable deal from a machine shop and it saved me lots of time.

so yes, deals can be found but there is market value on items such as generic long blocks for $2k. They won't be performance but they will be trouble free as they are new. Or, go with a short block vs buying a junker because you want the short block to be in great shape as a base to build the engine.

TIG's definition of a "junker" - any engine bought from a salvage yard, any engine bought used from a vehicle, any engine where the seller says it was "freshened up"

If you try to use any of those engines as a base for a performance motor without investing over $1,000 in machine work then you are asking for trouble.

 

Step 1 in surviving on-line BB's - don't take things personally.

Now, looking back over your list, you either got sweetheart deals, or something given to you. A machined/painted block for $300 is hardly the norm. New flat-top pistons for $60? Really?

And, do you think you could do this again?

I'm glad you got the deals you did, but you appear to have been in the right place at the right time.

Oh, camel hump heads aren't much of a deal (unless you're doing a restoration of a pre-3rd gen).

 

Yea.. Not taking it personal but it gets annoying on here even reading other posts somebody simply says something like I did and everyone goes off! Yes I got a great deal and the pistons were from someone who worked at an auto part store so I got them at cost...so yes really. Maybe he won't get a sweetheart deal like I did but I can be positive that he doesn't have to spend 3,500 or 5,400 dollars to get a good motor. No way! You can build a good motor on a small budget... It happens all the time...and I don't remember him saying he was in a big hurry? So he can take his time and find some sweetheart deals.

 

Oh and camel hump heads already redone ready to bolt on for 250 bucks is a great deal no matter what you put them on. Versus anywhere from 500 on up to who knows what for other heads. For as many people their is who don't like camel humps or think they'r out dated their's just as many people who think otherwise.

 

I don't think people "go off"

honestly, if you read the threads where posters "need or want 400HP" or supercharging etc, those posters tend to be going to their "first dance" so to speak.

Those of us who have done this several times also tend to be the ones to try and open the poster's eyes to reality. If you say that it can be done for $1,000 yet others say $3,000 or more, who do you think the poster wants to believe?

They will then get into their heads that performanmce is cheap and start a project just to become frustrated and disappointed. The costs you quoted are awesome prices. Just to bore and hone a block around here is $200 and they don't even clean it for that price.

If you advise the OP to get a block, send it for cleaning and to be bored, do you also tell him about the new cam bearings needing to be installed, resizing the rods, turning the crank or replacing it etc etc or just let them find out those surprises on their own?

I would hope that you wouldn't advise someone who is going to their "first dance" to just grab any block, slap a hone into it and toss parts at it. That method (which I've done before to get an engine running for a while) will not yield a performance engine.

to net it out, yes, you got great deals. But, don't you think it's more of a service to discuss the normal cost models?

I'm done with this dead horse, it needs no more beating from me.

to the OP, performance isn't cheap and there's a reason experienced folks will tell you that.

 

You'd be hard pressed to build better for less than that 383 that's on sale.
You can get the block for a stroker build for $600 and finish-hone the rotating assembl yourself; at this point you're already in it for $1,600 though and that's not including any of the top end.
I guess with $1,400 you could buy a used intake and vortec heads, new cam, springs & retainers and be close to that... but why bother; that crate motor is a bargain!

 

One of the main reasons as to why bother is cause I don't really have the full 3k to dump into it right now. If I build it myself I was hoping to get some parts here and there over time so even if I spend 4 or 5k total it's stretched out and easier to manage.

If that 3k was a complete engine ready to drop in (carb and everything) I would do it but at this point it would be a good chunk of the money I have saved up for this project and wouldn't be able to do anything with it until I save up some more money to purchase the rest of the stuff to go on it.

So basically, I want my project to last so I have something to tinker and toy with while saving up money for the next step hehe.

 

Do you not have any decent friends that build engines? I bought my engine with 1,500 miles on it, forged pistons, and completely fresh heads for $1,100. That's what I would recommend. I've always bought motors from/through friends I trusted and it's worked out really well... just make sure the friend you pick isn't the one who just slaps parts together... for obvious reasons. Try asking around. That's the only way I found my engine (because I asked).

 

seen this on here somewhere but does sum it up pretty good (cheap/fast/reliable pick two) i would recommend getting the 383 short block and go from there when all is done and you put your motor in expect your tranny to only last a few months then theres another 3k thats where im at now im sure after i put my tko 600 in the rear end will go

 

AVOID hump heads. They are way overrated by a select few.

If you want a good budget build do a short block 383 with vortec heads and the ls7 springs/retainers. You can get the 400 horse you want.

the saying goes:
gotta pay to play. cheap, fast, reliable. pick two.
you want cheap and fast, wont be reliable
you want cheap and reliable, wont be fast
you want fast and reliable, wont be cheap

 

Agreed, leave those old heads to guys who want to play with them, waste of time and $ for most.

Modern head/cubes is the easiest way, cheaper to build torque than it is Hp.

Crate motor sounds like the way to go for you, can always learn to build your own later when you have the itch time and space. More to it than people think to do it right, let someone else have the hassle.

 

I wish I had some friends around that worked on cars / engines lol. But since I'm a computer programmer, most of my friends are more in the technical crowd and none of them are like me and enjoy working on a project car.

Let me ask another question, if I were to say put a 383 in the car, could I get it to 325-350 hp on a smaller budget easier? Would it be easy to later on upgrade the parts to high performance parts in order to push it over 400 hp? Or would I be looking at a complete engine rebuild again later to get there?

Just thinking if I could get some good power for cheaper with the option to upgrade later I might do something like that. Not to mention my 305 has a rear main seal leak and I don't really care to go through the hassle of fixing it when I plan to do an engine swap sometime in the near future.

 

Think of it this way, if you are rebuilding the entire bottom end with aftermarket parts; go with a pre-machined block from summit. You can't buy a block (even if you get one for free) you can't get the machine work done for the $600 they sell for (.040 with the journals clearanced for a stroker crank).

Without a doubt (I believe I speak on behalf of everyone) you should fork over the extra few hundred bucks and start with a 33 cubic inch advantage. It's way better to have a larger motor for the street, it's easier & cheaper in the long run (when it comes to heads) to build power out of a larger motor.
If all factors are even, the larger displacement motor should ALWAYS build more power.


A rotating assembly to support 400-450 horse is around $1,000 including all your bearings. A 300-350 horse bottom end isn't going to be much cheaper, you might save one or two hundred bucks on the crank but that's about it. To run either of those power classes safely you'd need forged rods and pistons.

 

I'm assuming you are talking about something like this:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-150100/

Why is this one more expensive?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-10066034/

The differences I see are no .030 overbore, and a 2 piece rear main seal vs a 1 piece. Do 2 piece rear main seals have less chance of leaking or something?

Can someone direct me to a component list or something somewhere of everything I would need to go from the block only, to a complete engine?

I know I'd still need a cam shaft, pistons, rods, is that it for the lower block?

Doesn't all that come in Engine Rotating Kits? Would one of those be my best route to go? Can anyone tell me, or point me to a place to read up to figure out about the rod length, piston head volume and such?

 

If I had to do it all over again, I'd be VERY tempted to have gone with a 383 setup. The only thing is my setup had a ton sunk into machinework and I couldn't afford the machinework + stroker kit at the time. 383's are a great engine to work with because you make great torque, while adding more horsepower as well. I am actually saving up for a 383 kit right now so when I'm ready I just pull the guts out - sell them to my dad since he wants to build a SBC, and put the 383 kit in it's place (as well as clearancing the block and all that which isn't difficult).

It doesn't cost that much more to build a 383 if you're going from scratch. That's the only way I'd go, but I couldn't pass this deal up on a good running engine so I went with my 355.

 

Probably because it is less popular being the older style block without roller cam provision that everyone wants these days

Price range of rotating assemblies dependent upon your perf requirements

http://www.summitracing.com/search/P...t&Ns=Price|Asc

 

just curiuos as to why some people say camal heads are junk i have them on my 383 now with roller rockers not sure bout lifters.how much of a difference would i get going to some alum heads