84-Z28-Canada

Hi guys, back to the boards for wisdom. I put in a 350 out of an old truck recently, went great for a little while, then I spun a bearing. Lesson learned, don't screw around if you want to enjoy something. SO, now it's time for rebuilding. the block is still good 0010 block, 4 bolt mains high nickel etc... So, my question is: If i'm going to replace the rotating assembly, should I replace it with a 355 (bored 30 over) with a Blower cam and high flow heads with a Weiand 4-71 blower......or should I go with a good stroker kit and a top end kit (cam, heads, intake) meant for power? So I end up with a strong blown 355, or a strong 383 stroker motor. I'm sticking with SBC, I'm not prepared for LS yet, so forget about that. Considering either will be done with Eagle, Scat, or Lunati kits....what would you do and why? Thanks very much guys, Ian

gmstrong

383 stroker.They are fun.

Apeiron

If you've got to replace it anyway and you're going to be N/A, there's not many reasons to not stroke it.

Gonzales0501

Def go 383! The 355 with a a blower is gonna cost you way more.
I'm doing a 385 build and I got a sweet deal on a routing assembly from competition products.

AlkyIROC

Spun a main or rod bearing? If it was a main, get the block checked out first to make sure the cap or webbing isn't damaged. Spinning main bearings isn't good and usually requires more repairs than the block is worth.

If you only spun a rod bearing then it's not so bad.

The cost of rebuilding or repairing can get quite high. As nice as it sounds to say you've built up your own engine, it can be a lot cheaper to buy an assembled engine already built the way you want it. Check out Shaffiroff engines. The have race and street engines and usually have listings for unclaimed engines which you can buy for a discounted price. There are many other engine builders offering the same deals. Sunset engines comes to mind.

I just did a quick check and Shaffiroff only has one unclaimed engine at the moment and it's a big race engine. Probably worth more than your car

Looking at their "street engine" selection, you can buy a completely dyno tested 383 less carb and ignition for $7600 rated at 475 hp. Before you start your build, price out all your parts then contact the machine shop and get a quote on all the machine work and/or assembly cost. Shipping an engine to Canada isn't that bad. It's cheaper if you can run across the border to pick it up then just pay the tax to bring it back.

84-Z28-Canada

Thanks very much for the input guys, it sounds like the 383 is the preferred choice among you guys. I understand that the blown 355 would be more expensive, That is pretty clear. I spun a rod bearing to be clear, so I'm fairly sure the block is still good. I was quoted at 800-900 bucks to get the block machined to take a good 355 rotating assembly...but then its about $1000 for a good rotating assembly, another grand for good heads, and then about $4000 to get the supercharger, carb, linkages, and blower cam. Whereas getting a 383 stroker block from GMPP would cost about $3000, and I could put all my top end stuff on it. Or even get a good top end kit from Edelbrock or something...in total a $5000 stroker, or a $7000 blower motor. I think both are worth more than my car! Anyway, if the new motor goes into a different project later on, that's fine too. so, keep the comments coming, and I\'ll update as I go along. thanks, Ian

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

blown/turbo setup will make more power... but will be way more expensive... to a point.

I would sell that "high nickel", "010" block and get a roller block. Probably the single biggest performance advantage you can get for the money is to go with a factory style roller cam. Saves you a TON of money over converting it later, and you leave power, streetability, and reliability on the table when you run flat tappets, and if you want to convert expect to spend $600-$1000 before it's all said and done. Way cheaper to just buy a high quality new block. I dont buy the old block mythology at all. Besides modern fuel injection kept the cylinder bores in much better shape than the old carbs did back in the days of the outdated "010" blocks.

And as always.... if you want more inches, just stroke it.

stroken85z

i agree with internal get a roller block and dont look back. i would go for the stroker also.

FRMULA88

Roller block?! hmmm never heard of such a thing.

My 400 SBC NEVER came with roller lifters & cam from the factory but it has them now.


On a traditional SBC (not LS based engine) The lifter bore diameters are the same, so are the cam bores, be it flat tappet or roller. The difference is the cam grind... you cannot interchange the camshafts. you must use a flat tappet cam with flat tappet lifters.

but you can indeed use roller lifters & roller cam in a block that used to have flat tappet style. Not a big deal.

If the block is in good shape this is no reason at all not to re-use it.

FRMULA88

Blower motors are nice if want add more power by increasing boost, provided the motor can take the additional load.

same with N2O or turbos.

Personally I prefer N/A and cubic inches, and I am at the safe limit for a stock block... anything past 700 HP then a aftermarket block makes sence.

I guess it depends on how fast do want to go / how much you want to spend.

Dakota W.

Get a salvage LT1 4th gen, they're cheap and you can get your entire car upgraded.

FRMULA88

stoked & bored

AlkyIROC

Any block can be made into a roller. You just need to use the proper style roller lifters. OEM blocks generally use a keyway to keep the lifter aligned. Aftermarket conversion lifters use a linkbar to join 2 lifters to keep them aligned. OEM roller lifters are limited to how much they can lift because of how the lifter body is designed around the roller. Aftermarket rollers can allow a much more aggressive grind.

These are a typical retro fit roller lifters to put a roller cam into any non roller block.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/857-16/10002/-1

This is a more high performance solid roller. Notice how much more exposed the roller is to attack an aggressive cam lobe.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/818-16/10002/-1

Roller lifters are not cheap compared to flat tappet lifters. I use a high end Morel style roller lifter and my whole set is worth around $800

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Factory roller lifters and cam retainer and the spider/dogbone assembly are free with the core. A retrofit setup is several times more expensive. To me it's prohibitively expensive to convert a flat tappet block to a roller cam. Far more cost effective to run a factory setup. In my personal opinion, the factory setup seems much more reliable. I dont trust those linkbars to hold as well as the dogbones do, and the possibility of a linkbar coming apart and trashing a motor is something I would have on my mind for sure.

So again, I think it's far more cost effective to find a modern 1 pc RMS roller block than it is to spend the $600-$1000 to convert a factory flat tappet setup to a roller setup.

Do you really think any streetable hydraulic roller cam is going to come anywhere close to the "lift" limits of factory roller lifters? I've even tried to find these numbers about where the dividing line is between using factory lifters and needing aftermarket ones, and was told more than once that factory lifters are fine, worst that could happen is using a small base circle cam that doesnt allow them to seat into the dogbones properly or you run into high RPM issues. People run GM847 cams in LT1's all the time, and that thing is HUGE. 234/242 @ 0.05" 0.574"/0.595"

I definitely dont think I'd go bigger than that for a Vortec head 383 for a street car. I also wouldnt waste my time with solid rollers on a street car. Not worth the hassle of having to replace the lifters before the needlebearings in the rollers puke all into your daily driver's oilpan. For a vortec head 383 that needs to stay below 6000ish RPMs something like an XR276 to an XR288 is probably about as big as it is worth going, and both are well below the threshold where stock lifters are adequate.

If he's on a budget, going with a roller block core will get him a lot more power and reliability for his money. In my opinion, he'd be better off building a roller 350 than a flat tappet 383.

AlkyIROC

What does the needle bearings have to do with it? Solid or hydraulic roller lifters will have the same type of roller. The difference is internal and how the lifter pushes up on the pushrod. Hydraulic lifters are just easier on high mileage, low maintenance vehicles. If you're willing to do periodic work on your vehicles, there's nothing wrong with solid lifters. They'll indicate if there's any wear or problem issues long before a hydraulic system will if the lash makes drastic changes. Take the time to check the lash once a year and adjust if required. Big diesel engines in highway trucks use solid rollers and see a lot more mileage and engine revolutions than a car will in a year.

How much should be spent on the engine really comes down to what the engine is expected to do and how long it's expected to last. A simple flat tappet hydraulic cam system will run just fine as will a basic OEM style timing chain system. From the sounds of the original post though, it doesn't look like he wants to build a stock replacement engine so better parts should be planned from the start.

FRMULA88

600-1000 $ to switch to a new aftermarket roller cam is money well spent.

Free or not, I would not install a used cam & lifters on a fresh build.

Why waste money on another block if the one you have is in good shape and will accept a roller cam with no mods?

FRMULA88

The author of this tread has to decide how much engine he wants.

if he does not want to deal with the cost of machining & building a custom engine then just get new GM crate motor.

A GM crate motor will also come with a warranty and plenty of models / power levels to choose from.

if more is desired then be ready to spend more money.

I would not build a "new" high performance engine with used internal parts.


This is a 421 SBC with a Cam Motion solid lifter roller cam, Brodix 18 degree heads and Crower shaft mounted rockers. It makes 656 HP with E85 fuel. And also took me 5 years to build because I saved my money for all these parts, while remodeling our house, and have a family.

It all boils down to what you want the car for. Mine is a track / cruise night car. Not a daily driver

Drifter92

Stroker : )

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

This is interesting, as what you say makes sense.

I've heard lots of stories about how solid roller lifters get the snot beaten out of them due to the lack of cushion in the valvetrain, and need to be replaced at regular intervals to prevent failure.

So perhaps this is only applicable to high lift, daily driven solid roller lifters on aggressive roller camshafts designed for roller lifters? You seem to imply that if you run solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam, they will last just as long as hydraulic lifters... and that does seem to make sense, but it just clashes with all I've ever heard about how solid roller lifters just aren't practical in street cars.

I still think given the cost of cores/blocks, it's stupid to go to a retrofit roller lifter setup when you can just buy a factory roller block and go to a roller cam for MUCH cheaper.

AlkyIROC

You can't run a hydraulic lifter on a solid cam and can't run a solid lifter on a hydraulic cam. Doesn't matter if it's a flat tappet or a roller. The ramp profiles are different and it won't work. Solids are designed to work with valve lash. Hydraulics need a different ramp approach.

If you want to use solid lifters, you need a camshaft with a solid grind. Hydraulic lifters need a hydraulic grind.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I dont understand why a solid roller wont work on a hydraulic camshaft. For a flat tappet it's a bad idea, and it's obvious a hydraulic roller wont work on a solid roller cam because they're just too heavy to handle the ramp rates without causing issues throughout the whole drivetrain.

But what's the harm in running a solid roller on a hydraulic cam? I see no logical reason why this wont work beyond your comment that "solid lifters are designed for valve lash", which is kind of vague.

And if solid rollers are limited to using solid roller cams, then I'd still be leery of running it in a street car. I've heard way too many stories about the questionable longevity of solid roller hardware for extended street use.

edit: Found this, kind of interesting.

http://www.hotrod.com/techfaq/hrdp_0...s/viewall.html


And here...

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...s/viewall.html

coincidentally, the article later corroborates what you said...

The only reason I mention it is because I did some reserach on it a while back since solid roller lifters are cheaper than hydraulic ones. But after it was all said and done it didnt seem to be worth the potential slight cost savings. Seems like it could be done but it's just too much hassle and shoehorning things into places where they dont belong to be worth it. Seems like you're just asking for failures after all.