After almost 180k on it, I think its high time to ditch the 305 in my Firebird and swap it out with something with more power. I have found three engines all under $1000, but I'm not entirely sure what I should drop in. Here is what I found on CL:

-350 TPI low mileage $950
-383 stroker short block with Forged Internals $800
-LS1 (w/o harness or ECU) $800

Any comments are greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance

 

383 and LS1 will cost a lot more in the long run than that 350 TPI.

LS1 needs harness, ECU, transmission, cross member, k-member, etc... 383 needs heads/cam/intake.

 

At what 275 rwhp and below ?

If you are looking to make any actual power the LS1 will end up costing the least.

 

you need to ask yourself what your goals are with the car. what your going to use it for and how much you want to spend

after having all 3 engines in my third gen at some point i can say that the ls is by far my fave

 

Initially, I was leaning towards the 383, because of its forged pistons, crank, rods, etc. (perfect for supercharging) however, I'm not entirely sure. My goal is around the 450-500 RWHP mark.

 

If you are serious about getting there I'd be looking at an LSx swap, piecing it together starting with an L92 longblock, you can be in that range with just a cam swap and supporting mods.

 

I am curious if the engines are of decent quality for $1000... I would still want to have them checked over to ensure that are in a running condition.

 

450-500 hp will take dual 3 inch exhaust or dual 3 into a single 4 inch just on the exhaust. I have a naturaly aspirated 430 RWHP car and it takes highly ported brodix heads and welded and ported holley stealth rams with 42lb injectors. Then you have to get solid roller cams and by this time you are not very street driveable and a lot of the fun is gone except for driving it to a cruise night or the track. The 350 tpi with a stealth ram and hot cam would give you (me) best all around bang for your buck. My 450 rwhp car sits a lot and I drive my factory 200hp vert everyday and enjoy the devil out of it. Just my two cents worth because there is always someone faster but when they beat you you know they are driving there car a lot less than you are.

 

All of that aftermarket stuff and solid roller lifters...


Or just a cam in a L92/LS3

 

Why?
Have you driven that much Hp ? refer post # 8

 

His drivability complaints and build list both can be much better by using a gen3 platform, plenty of cam only cars in that range on LS3's, using an L92 longblock will let you build the same thing for less $

 

Yes guys I agree the ls platform is the way to go. And yes I have two cars in the 400 plus RWH. I have a 1990 ZR-1 and a 1990 iroc. I am old school and have a ton of old school sbc and bbc stuff. In 3 to 4 years I am planning on a ls7 or lsx change but to say a cam change will get you where my iroc is is not accurate. You have to decide what serpentine set-up you will use so you will know what changes to the k member or to just get an aftermarket piece. You have wiring issues to get the engine to run and your gauges to work. You have exhaust and driveshaft and cooling hoses and so many things to solve before your cam change that it is overwhelming. I decided that since I had most of the engine parts for a 406 build and it was going to take me a while to learn how to do an ls swap that I would use my brodix heads and forged internals and go fast now. I did have to figure out how to make a holley stealth ram fit a 1206 gasket and was a pain but I welded it and ported it and it flowed a little over 300cfm through the entire thing. I mostly drive a stock 1992 Z28 convertible with a stock 305 that makes about 200hp. It is the slowest car in my yard but I like it the best. My duramax truck will out run it making it the slowest but I dearly love that 20 year old car. I have a 2002 corvette that i like and it is fast but will not touch the lt5 in the 90 vett. The lt5 is a mechanical work of art with 4 valve per cylinder two injectors per cylinder and revs past 8000 with ease. I still drive the vert everyday.

 

The things you listed are part of the LSx swap, none of which are overwhelming, the cam swap is the only major upgrade component needed to the engine to put it to that level.

I dont understand what you think takes some giant amount of learning.

Buy headers, if you arent great with wiring have someone convert the harness or build you a new one, the rest is pretty simple.

 

The wiring is what scares me. I have a 1989 iroc that is now a 1990. Legally it is a 1989 but now it has air bag 90-92 dash and gauges, air bag sensors (the air bag works). It is now a speed density car instead of a MAF car. This took me six months finding the right harness and learning what harness will work with what harness. The only original harnesses left in my 89 is the a/c and power window and lock harness. Every other wire has been changed. I also had to make some brackets to hold the 90-92 dash carrier. How do you take a ls harness and ecm and mate it to my dash and gauges so my gauges, a/c, fuel pump, etc work. I worked six months on the 89 and you cant tell it was ever an 89 except I left the red iroc emblem (instead of yellow) on the dash. I do heat and air work and understand electricity but the ecm and dash wiring is murder. The cam swap I could do in my sleep and I have never turned a wrench on a ls motor. Motors I understand I have built many including an lt5 and that one will make you scratch your head but if one wire is off the whole build is junk. Who builds ls swap harnesses?

 

I would have taken the 383 for ease of Power and torque in the 400 range, nothing like a stroked 383 to shred the traction off some hankooks, 350 TPI is my favorite don't get me wrong but if you just gotta have that extra rpm and want more power than Badassness with the TPI, go 383 stroker vortec heads, comp Xtreme Energy Cam, forged crank, rods, pistons. 3" Magnaflow exhaust or Flowmaster.

 

I build them, there are probably a couple others on the board who do, as well as several companys.

Everything from modifying an existing harness to work, to complete new from scratch, working with a stock one can limit having ideal fitment, or at the minimum require a lot of extra work to make it happen.

 

Z28ricer, what would you charge to build (change) my harness to fit an ls build and a
4l80e. I already have a 93 4l80e but I have already started my ls swap with the small stuff. I have a wrecked 91 Z28 that I could take the engine and ecm harness since it is the same as my iroc harness. I also have a 2002 corvette ecm. Its an extra for my 2002 corvette and ls build. Will this ecm run an ls motor and the 4l80e? I was going to put an lt5 in the iroc and gm did one years ago but it is a tight fit and you can't get aftermarket stuff for an lt5 other than headers and injectors no heads or intakes or good stuff.

 

LS1 all the way. I havn't even taken loose a valve cover yet, but with full bolt ons have ran a best of 12.30 and a best mph of 116.79. It makes great power, gets 25mpg on the highway, and best of all, you'll want to drive your 3rd gen all the time. It may cost a little more, but IMO the cost/benefit ratio is there.

 

L92 pullouts are going for $3500+ and LS3 pullouts are $5,000+..... and then however much the swap stuff will cost.

how about a nice set of heads, intake, and supercharger on the existing tpi engine? should make 450+rwhp and a bunch more torque than the n/a LS engine.

 

An L92 longblock (what you'd actually use) can be had plenty often for 2500, sure all of that crap thrown at it will do decent, of course then you have a ton of piping extra stress on the crank, a good chance of melting the stock pistons, belt slip issues, etc.

 

been running 9's with my stock pistons for years.

 

There are a few people who have been running 11's with magical unicorn T5's here and there.

There are some guys who have made 600WHP on stock nissan 2.0 4cyl bottom ends.

Yes, sometimes a few people get away with stuff, but it isnt the norm, suggesting that it is gets other people damaged stuff, not a good idea to base a build off of.

 

You found an ls1 for 800? Seems like a steal if in good shape. What yr and how many miles

 

Its out of a 2001 Trans Am with 80k on it.

 

My Z28 (with forged internals and a Roots-style blower) is pushing about 620 HP at the crank, so i'm no stranger to high powered cars . It's my track car, therefore I don't drive it on the road. I'd settle with just the 450 mark on the Firebird, though.

I have a used ProCharger P1SC that i got at a swapmeet for $400, it should give the LS1 a real kick in the pants. I am probably going to get the LS1, due to the fact that they already make a decent amount of power bone stock.

 

I would. 01-02 are better motors than older ones and have ls6 intake already which is a good boost in performance over ls1. Swap parts will cost 1-2k depending but its worth it. If you can get the p1 hooked up, 450whp should be 8-10 psi away easily

 

i know what you mean. good friend of mine made 850rwhp with a stock shortblock ls2. my lt1 is somewhere in the 600's.
but 450rwhp with a supercharged stock shortblock sbc or ls motor is no big deal, imo.

 

the ls1/ls2 would be a nice weight savings.

 

Hmm my buddy made 816 thru a t56 and truck 14 bolt on a very conservative mustang dyno on stock shortblock ls2 as well. He had heads cam twin turbo on e85 and may have done rod bolts i am not sure. Still....thats sick. Probably 900+ on dynojets. Guess it aint that uncommon

 

aps twin turbo vette. to be honest, i think it went over 900rwhp before eventually going kaboom due to a tuning oopsie. i think it was a stock longblock with a small cam and the aps turbos were t25's if im not mistaken. he rebuilt the motor and put some bigger turbos in it. he was running half pump gas and half race fuel. probably mostly race fuel nowadays.