Just purchased a 91 RS Camaro with a 305 TBI and and automatic trans. Has 200k on the motor and it will be my daughters first car. I purchased on craigslist in GA and won't have it back to Dallas until Thanksgiving as it is being stored at a family members house.
I want to stay fuel injected but not sure in what form. I want to spend about $4k for a new motor that makes 400hp 400tq. A little more including headers and any other misc. I think I've ruled out an LSX for now due to the cost. I understand I could get a used one close to that but I want a clean rebuild or new. I really don't want to mess with all the conversion headaches either.
I am thinking a 383 with Vortec heads and roller cam .480 lift and a bored out factory TBI for now. I would eventually swap to another injection unit like a HSR or another. I'm open to any ideas and would like to here thoughts on the current plan.

 

Wait a minute, your daughters first car is going to have 400hp? or is this car for you?

 

Um yea, it will be hers. I will be stealing it as much as I can and taking her to the track to race it. Im kinda thinking the throttle body will help keep it tame and the fuel upgrade will be once i know she won't get stupid in it! Mostly interested in feedback on tbi with that set up and hp tq predictions.

 

Well any upgrade from a 305 is a step in the right direction. A 350 or 383 is the easiest choice. A bigger engine makes reaching your goal a lot easier.

 

If I was your daughter I wouldn't even touch the car knowing that you got it mostly for yourself. That's seriously f@#$ed up dude. Don't use an excuse like that to get yourself a toy. I don't know what kind of person your daughter is, but 190hp was more than enough for me to get into trouble, and I still drove fairly reserved 90% of the time. I'd be offended if my dad bought me a car that only he drives.

 

400 hp/tq on 4k is being very hopeful.

My set up is a full roller 355 with LT4 Hot cam kit, EQ Vortec heads (I'd avoid them, nothing but problems and terrible backing of their product), HSR, and a 52mm TB running about 10.6 comp. The whole build (including headers/y-pipe) ran me just under 6k and its making somewhere around 400.

 

For that much you should've bought a 4th gen with a ls1 or lt1. You would've gotten those numbers much cheaper. Your daughter should drive it as is. You got this car for the wrong reasons she needs a car not a toy.

 

Ok, calm down a little. First of all, she will be driving the car every day. Can't help it if she grew up going to car shows and fell in love with a third gen camaro and begged for it for years. She will be paying for half of it while working. I really don't see any kid having a problem with their dad helping them get a camaro and building it. This is similar to the gun debate. The car itself wont do anything stupid. Anyway, i appreciate the responses to the engine ideas.

 

I'd say if you're looking for a budget build with 400hp go for the vortec build that was mentioned. I just finished mine, carbureted though and compared to the 305 its a monster. I'm in it at somewhere around $2k-$2,500. Should be in the 400hp range from the builds i've seen online.

 

Find a good condition late model truck 5.7 vortec. Have it freshened with new bearings. Cam it and change intake. 400 hp for well under 4g

 

Are you saying bolt the L31 up to my tbi or use the whole setup with L31 ecu?

 

Either electronics. I believe those late model vortecs run tbi units. You could stick with theirs or run your electronics but vortec tbi intake is needed due to bolt pattern. Would require tuning either way with a healthy cam.

Hsr swap is nice too

 

I may look the L31 long block route. I also found a roller cam 383 vortec long block on ebay, pretty complete with intake, from a guy that has 100% feedback and close enough to go pick up. $2800 isn't bad. Just worried how bad the tbi unit would be with it even the modified unit. Dont mind if it's just restrictive as long as it doesn't cause damage to engine.

 

With rare exception (a few TBI Vortec vans), all factory Vortec-headed motors ran that spider-style MPFI setup. I'm no TBI expert, but I have a hard time believing that a stock thirdgen TBI unit can support anywhere near 400hp. I don't believe that there are injectors available that can supply adequate fuel.

If you want 400hp and fuel injection, I don't see it being possible with your budget. Not when you consider that you need a whole new motor (400hp for $4k is a tall order just for the motor itself) and a whole new EFI setup.

 

BBC TBI injectors supported low to mid 300 HP max. You just can't flow enough fuel through 2 injectors to make big HP numbers without a power adder such as NOS. You need to carb it or go to a TPI type system with 8 injectors.

 

I do realize the tbi will kill the hp and not achieve 400. What I'm trying to figure out is, will the tbi still allow the 383 to run ok until I can upgrade to the injection system to something else that will allow the 400hp like a HSR or another injection unit. I may just nut up and do it all at once. Was just wanting to space it out.

 

You could also put a 4bbl TBI unit from somebody like Holley on a 4bbl intake manifold. Probably need to use their computer, though, rather than the factory TBI computer (I'd suggest you search the TBI forum for information about running aftermarket TBI systems with the factory computer).

Whenever I see a post that lists a HP goal, my first thought is, "Where did that number come from?" I'd prefer to shoot for a performance goal, even if it isn't quantified (plenty of spunk, gets out of its own way, etc.).

I haven't had my car on the dyno, but from the HP calculators you see that use 1/4 mile ET and MPH to estimate it, I'm not making 400 HP with my LS1/4L60E combo. I normally run it at 5800' elevation, which most people can't relate to, but I did run it at Topeka last month (yes, the car is ugly, but paint ain't a go-fast part...):




That's at about 3350 pounds going down the track, puttin' the hurt on 26x9.50-14 Hoosier Quicktime DOT slicks. All GM internals in the engine, with LS6 intake/cam, 1-3/4" primary/2-1/2" collector long tube headers, single 3" exhaust out to the bumper, free-flowing air inlet, shift kit in the tranny, ~3500 stall, 3.73 gears. I drive it to work with highway radial tires pretty much year round (hence the rust hole in the driver's door - bad collision repair job). Best it ran was a 11.82 @ 114.8 MPH (last weekend at the high altitude home track it was running 12.7's @ 107 MPH).

Now, that's less than 400 HP. If you want to turn your daughter loose on the street with even more power...

(Just curious - do you have to go through any type of emissions inspection or testing?)

 

First time I have seen a photo of five7's third gen.

 

And now you know why...

I did have another, which I sold earlier this year.




It was even a more stock LS1, and still had more than enough power to get a young driver in trouble.

 

One thing to consider is swapping in a GenIII/IV motor into that car. More modern fuel injection/computer system. A lot better gas mileage than a Gen I motor producing the same HP.

I have considered a 5.3L swap into my 86 but I have more parts for a Gen I and can rebuild a 350 motor that I already have a lot cheaper than buying a Gen III/IV motor complete with wire harness and ECM.

 

There is no difference in mileage between newer fuel injection and a properly tuned TBI or carb.

 

Read again. He said:
And in that, I agree. There are physics here that cannot be ignored.

 

Good info on here. I have come to the conclusion i would have to spend money to get a tbi to make the 383 run. Probably $1000 or so and I'm not putting money into a temporary setup. I did just buy a set of new without the box fast burn updated design heads on ebay. They guy had it listed for $729 and it said for a pair. Not sure if he made a mistake or maybe im missing something. Seemed like it was too good to be true. I will build around those and prob just step up to whatever injection system is best for the money. Im looking for injection suggestions at this point for the 383 with the fast burn heads. And prob a 224ish .490-.500 cam.

 

You still haven't addressed this:

I suppose it's more than just curiosity, though...

 

Oh, sorry. I will have to worry about that for one year only. In TX its 24 yr old cars only. I will get the inspection sticker rt before any mods prob in Jan or Feb, and worry about it the year after.

 

Okay, here's an idea: Have you considered the Ram Jet system? Would bolt right up to those Fast Burn heads.

 

I have. Not sure if it's better than the HSR. What is the consensus?

 

Probably not better, but less expensive to get running. The Stealth Ram with Avenger EFI would be a bang-up system, to be sure. But, it'll probably cost you more than building the engine will.

 

I thought they both cost about $3k+?!

 

Depends on whether you're talking about just the intake, or the whole system including the ECU and harness. Most folks that use the Stealth Ram utilize their stock TPI harness and computer, albiet with a new tune.

 

Since you're starting with TBI, I assumed you'd go for the complete system of either.

 

This is the 4bbl TBI conversion I was talking about earlier:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mv...make/chevrolet

 

Look for a factory GM 350 forged steel 1pc crankshaft (used) and get some of the powdered metal (factory) 5.7 rods or splurge and get scat 6.0 H beams and balance it. Then some forged flat tops and a lt4 hot cam (or a bit bigger) and aluminum heads of your choice that flow about 275cfm. Match that to a Holley stealth ram (they flow 275cfm out of the box) and you should be at least 400hp and 400tqe.

 

That was my point, thanks for emphasizing it