this is probably a common question.

Having a professional build done, work has started.
It will be a quality build. 84 z28 with 700r4 automatic, 4 speed with overdrive.

305 is gone, replaced by newly rebuilt 1987 350, single rear main seal, using a edelbrock performer intake manifold 0-5500 rpm.
600 cfm holley 4b, vacuum, electric choke. will set for premium gas.
mild cam. Keeping stock z28 exhaust. I want good power but will be just a car for street use, not racing. I do not want to have issue passing
emissions testing, and want everything to work right, ac, for example.
Just want it to look beautiful, sound nice, and be quick, not for racing at all. Interior will look stock and be nice, will have the dual pointer 85 mph
speedo as I like that originality.

Any idea what kind of hp to expect, I have no clue, I know there are some
small ignition things I can do to get a little more power. I am really ignorant when it comes to mechanical issues. I just love cars and thought this is a relatively cheap way to have an older z28, and I did really like the third gen.

Costs are adding up as expected as we did order the fiberglass front bumper and ss style hood as car will just look better.

It has the 15 inch rally wheels which will be painted black like the whole car, but does anyone have a sent of nice 17 inch z28 wheels and good tires for sale as I like that style. I am in Pittsburgh PA. This should be a beautiful mean looking z28, but I do not want it too tame. Any more suggestions?

 

We cannot estimate ur HP ... u literally gave zero information on the internal engine components ... compression ratio ? Heads ? Valve size ? Cam specs ? Rocker arms ? Heads stock ? Modified ? Etc.

91' firebird .. 305 TBI .030 over , balanced bottom end , speed pro hyper flattops , 10.6:1 CR , all ARP rod bolts and main studs , melling HV oil pump , trick flow super 23 175cc heads, Howards HR 214/218@.050 .488/.495 lift on 114 LSA , full roller 1.6 RR = .520/.528 lift , summit dual plane intake port matched , shorty headers into 2.5" Y w full 3" flow master system and 3" cutout in front of axle , msd billet dizzy, 620cfm TBI , custom CAI , tubular adjustabke LCA pan hard , umi torque arm wonder bar , BMR trans cross member , COMP engineering SFC's, disc rear w 4.10's, drilled an slotted rotors, EBL flash , VRFPR, WBO2,

 

Stock 87 350 ci engine with mild performance upgrades. Will get more details on engine rebuild as far as what was done as it came with car. Engine has never been in car. It was car that someone started and stopped after some minor work. Info you gave will help as I now have info that I need to get better idea.

 

Considering you're going to run the stock exhaust, you are going to choke most upgrades that you will be doing, thus wasting the money. You can get 50 state legal headers, catback, etc.

Not sure how they do emissions in Pittsburgh, but you have a better chance of failing emissions by adding a different carb/intake than you do by putting on exhaust.

 

This ^^^^ ... our stock exhaust is a restriction on the stock engines .. even on the wimpy little lo3 they are restrictive

91' firebird .. 305 TBI .030 over , balanced bottom end , speed pro hyper flattops , 10.6:1 CR , all ARP rod bolts and main studs , melling HV oil pump , trick flow super 23 175cc heads, Howards HR 214/218@.050 .488/.495 lift on 114 LSA , full roller 1.6 RR = .520/.528 lift , summit dual plane intake port matched , shorty headers into 2.5" Y w full 3" flow master system and 3" cutout in front of axle , msd billet dizzy, 620cfm TBI , custom CAI , tubular adjustabke LCA pan hard , umi torque arm wonder bar , BMR trans cross member , COMP engineering SFC's, disc rear w 4.10's, drilled an slotted rotors, EBL flash , VRFPR, WBO2,

 

"Stock" covers ALOT of ground.

A "stock" truck TBI 350 is AHELLUVALOT different from a "stock" F-body L98, which is different again from a "stock" Vette L98.

Before you get too wrapped up and all self-congratulatory about "professional .... quality build", you need to answer some REALLY BASIC questions.

What pistons is it using? (part numbers only please) How far "down in the hole" are they at TDC? What heads are they using, REALLY? (casting numbers only please, not "stock") What cam are they using? ("mild", "stock", etc. is not adequate; part numbers only please) Is it a roller cam? If not, why not? What machine work has been done to the block? Was it bored & honed with a torque plate, for example?

I don't see anything in your description that calls out for "premium gas". That actually makes a car go slower, as long as the compression is not so high that the timing has to be backed off (either manually or by the computer) to keep it from knocking. Judging by the rest of your description, the only way that will make your car any faster, is by weight reduction, centered at the driver's wallet.

The comments about exhaust are all spot-on. If the car came with the LG4 (VIN code H) or "crossfire" (VIN code 7), the exhaust was one of the MAIN reasons why those cars were so disappointing. EVERY PIECE of it, from the heads to the bumper, needs to go in the trash and be replaced by something bigger than a coffee stirrer.

Without more detail to those parts descriptions, we cannot tell you what to expect, except to GUARANTEE that it will be a disappointment if the stock exhaust is still there; and the odds aren't all that good otherwise, as more than likely you'll end up with either TBI heads or smogger junk like 882 or 624, "the RV cam" or the like (204°/214°, .420"/442"), pistons that are at least .045" below the deck at TDC and probably will be dished besides, and so forth. Unfortunately for beginners in this hobby, that seems to be how these things tend to work out.

You'll HATE that bumper and hood. I'll bet money neither one will fit, and before the car has 1000 miles on it, one or both will be cracked. I'd suggest returning those if you possibly can, and instead, get a NOS stock bumper cover, and try to find one of the original SMC hoods that came on L69 cars. That's assuming the ones you have now are not useable; if they are, use them. Save your money and use it more nearly wisely. (or at least, less unwisely)

These cars look AWFUL with wheels painted to match the car; DOUBLE AWFUL if they're the stock wheels. I strongly suggest you not do that. Not sure what "17 inch z28 wheels" you're talking about; none of these cars came with that size. But upgrading the size is a good idea, as GOOD tires to fit the old smaller sizes are pretty much a thing of the past now. By "good" I mean name-brand quality-built PERFORMANCE tires; Michelin, Pirelli, Bridgestone, etc.; NOT Pep Boys, Cooper, BF Goodrich, or other CHEEEEEEEEEEEP ones.

Nowhere do I see mention of a torque converter or gears. Those 2 things will do more toward making the car peppy and responsive and fun to drive, than all the engine mods you can possibly do. That's another n00b mistake: the idea that what's under the hood is most important, but all those other things don't matter.

I also don't see any mention of any maintenance that the car might need, like wore-out suspension or steering parts; or any suspension or brake improvements.

In a general way, I'd urge you to sit back and do a bit more research before dropping that much money on something that is as near 100% predictably certain as it can be, to being a big expensive disappointment coupled with an empty bank account.

 

The only thing you need to take away from this, OP, is that you're going to need a better exhaust and we need more info in order to give an accurate estimate on hp. The rest of it is just .

That being said, with exhaust, depending on how mild of a cam you have and how well your heads flow, you could easily see 300+hp.

 

This build started with some body work on another car. I got into a discussion with the owner, person who does all work on my cars, about
about a car to have some fun with. We started talking about a build he was going to do for himself on an 84 Camaro. He already has several 1st and 2nd gen Camaros cars he races. His plan had been to do a daily driver with some simple upgrades and keep it or sell it. But said if I wanted he could build for me. He also does a lot of Corvettes and is just
finishing a beautiful 63 split window and so I know he does nice work.

This was the first simple list Build,
1984 Z28 T-tops

Overall paint, refinish Tuxedo Black
Refinish and paint ralley wheels.
Refinish engine compartment, black
Recondition interior, replace rug, gray
Recondition left and right window regular track
Check exhaust system, replace and parts if needed such as muffler, tail pipe, etc
Replace front rotors, bearing, and brake pads
Replace rear brake drums and brakes
Undercoat complete undercarriage, black
Replace wind shield
Front end alignment
Check and clear radiator, replace if needed
A/C condensor cleaned and checked, replace if needed
Complete new rebuilt 350 ci engine, 87
New Edelbrock aluminum intake
New carb and distributor
New belts and hoses
Paint pulleys and engine brackets
Change auto 700 tran filter, gasket, oil
Change rear end gasket, lube.

Anyway, I think I will talk to him about suggestions here. I can pretty much have anything I want done as far as the build. Discussion was just to build as he was going to do originally as I have always trusted his judgement. But I will find out who did the engine rebuild for him, as it with the car when he got it, to get more info on parts and discuss exhaust changes. When everyone starts talking roller cams, bores, torque converters, torque plates, heads, it is another language to me. Bottom line not looking for high performance, not looking to race, would be perfectly happy with 250 to 275 hp nice looking driver. Only question what is a nice exhaust upgrade? Who makes a decent exhaust system for the 84 z28?

 

While we're all entitled to our opinions, and to expressing them, I'd like to know Dakota, which one of my suggestions is in your opinion. Of course I'd especially like to know why ALL of them are; but let's take them one at a time.

Is it that ALL "stock" 87 350s are the same?

Is it that heads don't matter? the cam doesn't matter? pistons don't matter? deck height doesn't matter? Boring & honing with a torque plate doesn't matter?

Or perhaps you'd like to argue with the simple physics of the heat content properties of various fuels, and you'd like to propose that somehow "premium" gas has suddenly attained a heat content equal to "regular"?

Would you like to demonstrate that fiberglass body parts (like that ugly crap we see on Honduhz and the like all the time) actually FITS the car and doesn't crack and fall off?

Or perhaps that torque converters and gears don't matter?

I'm pretty dumb, as everybody around here knows; far from the sharpest bulb on the string; but you sound like a REALLY smart guy. Enlighten us. Tell us some of your secrets. Let us in on some of this knowledge you seem to have.

Thank you in advance.

Until then, I stand by every word I said.

OP, feel free to PM me, and avoid this sort of pointless wrangling; a battle of wits where one of the contestants seems to be unarmed. Doesn't do you much good to have to listen to that.

 

Well, you ARE pretty dumb if you can't read. I didn't say the heads, cam, etc. didn't matter. There is hardly a difference between 93 and 89 octane, no way in hell is it going to actually take away from power. It's not your car, let him do whatever he wants cosmetically to your car, you don't have to look at it, he does. Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, he can put whatever wheels on it he wants. And there are PLENTY of GOOD cheap tires. If it's a mild cam, chances are he won't NEED to upgrade the converter. As for maintenance, I don't see how that applies to the OP's question. He asked for a power estimate, not what you thought of his build; this could also be said for the torque converter bit.

 

No, of course you didn't say that.

What you ACTUALLY said about my post was:

Maybe we aren't justified in "assuming" (I know, I know) that you perhaps meant to make some sort of exceptions?

Last time I was at a gas station (I know, I've only been going to those since fuel was about $0.29.9 per gallon and sometime around when your momma was not even so much as a gleam in your grandma's eye yet, but what do I know about gasoline, anyway) there was about a $0.20 difference between 93 and 89 octane. And of course there's always that matter of "heat content"... the amount of energy contained in a unit volume of the fuel. Maybe on your planet it's different? Maybe it's ... more? Iunno.

Please enlighten us.

Sure, we can all "let him do whatever he wants"; can't exactly "stop" him, now can we? all we can do is help him not to flush his money down the toilet.

Again, I know I'm not very bright; but please explain the difference here.

We don't know what heads he has.
We don't know what pistons are being used.
We don't know what cam he has.
We don't know what machine work the block has had.

Yet we're supposed to give a power estimate? And yours would be ... ??

Let's not forget, the purpose here isn't to cheerlead somebody down a path of throwing money down the toilet; it's to try to help him NOT make the mistakes that others before him have made.

At least, that's how I see it. I hate to see somebody who's just starting out in this hobby do the same stupid stuff that's been done over and over and over, and this BBS and every other enthusiast BBS on the Internet (Thank Bog for Algore inventing the Interwebz so everybody could actually LEARN stuff and not have to depend solely on Friday night McDonalds parking lot monkey-spank any more!!) has posted time and again, about how they spent this and built that and STILL got drilled by the soccer mom in a Kia minivan at the traffic light the next morning, in their supposed "dream machine".

I hate seeing that happen to people. Don't want to see it happen to this guy, any more than anybody else. I'd like to help him get it right the first time instead of wasting money HE CAN'T GET BACK on stuff that's just going to make him worse off than where he's starting from. (matters of taste aside)

Please also, post us some links of QUALITY tires that will fit the wheels that came on these cars, have the correct load-bearing capacity, and will be COMPETITIVE with what comes on NEW HIGH-PERFORMANCE cars. I gave up on that about 15 yrs ago; bought me a set of C5 wheels so I could at least step up to that degree of update; haven't seen anything remotely competitive in all the years since.

 

Do you not know english very well or can you not read? What part of "we need more info to give an accurate estimate" do you not understand? Obviously I'm talking about the heads, cam, etc. Gasoline has changed a lot, old geezer, it isn't leaded anymore. The difference between premium and regular is nearly negligible in terms of making power, at least at the point the OP is most likely at. As for a good cheap tire, a good example would be http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....+Oval+Indy+500 roughly $110 per tire depending on what size you go with, and they have various 17". And if you'd actually read my posts, you'll see the estimate I made.

 

Glad you can tell what heads, cam, compression, etc. he's got. That's better than anybody else on here can do.

I wouldn't put those tires you linked to on my worst enemy's car. That's GARBAGE of the lowest order.

Here's what REAL tires REALLY cost. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...=54450&tab=All But of course they don't fit the stock wheels on these cars.

Yes I know about the gasoline thing. Believe it or not, that's why I told him that "premium gas" doesn't matter.

Grow up a bit, gain some experience, listen more than you talk, eventually you'll learn.

 

A lot of autoxers must be really stupid for running Firehawks on their cars then. I'm going to go ahead and say you're trolling, since I've stated 3 times now that a description of his parts is needed for an accurate estimate; You also told him that premium gas makes his car slower than regular gas, which is not true AT ALL. It is you who has some growing up to do.

Oh, and about half of the tires on the page you linked were in a pretty close price range of the Firehawks I linked.