yeah - i've actually hit my headers because of flying over a road dip... i did have my shocks ont he softer settings...

anyways, that #8 tube also barely touches on mine too, it wasnt so bad that i wasn't able to clearence it...

It almost sounds like the motor is tilted forward too much - motor tilt has a lot to do with whether or not thta ps header hits or not... i found that out the hard way when i had to fab up my own trans mount and screwed up the first try in an effort to get the ds angles better...

 

That might be what my problem is. But I would think it's tilted back too far, because if it were higher in the back it wouldn't be as bad. It seems to be wedged between the A arm mount and the back of the part that crosses over.
Thanks for the idea, I never thought of it that way.

 

well, if things are stock, then it should line up ok...

as far as engine tilt goes, it's a theory - but it may be the problem - if it is tilted back (aiming the trans towards the ground) then it will be tyring to kit the crossmember side. If it is tilted forward, it would be trying to jam that #8 tube into the a-arm mount...

If it's enough of a problem, my suggestion is drop the a arm, get a torch on it, get the area cherry red and take a 2.5lbs sledge to it and push it in... this way your not removing material and there is plenty of room inside for the a-arm to swing..

 

O.k,
I see what you mean, but in my case the #8 is riding more on top of the a arm mount not from underneath. It's kind of like a "funnel" sitting on top of the two points. I'm still waiting to hear from Dart on the heads though.
Thanks.

 

i'd just like to see a pic of where people modified the a-arm on there cars for those that ground it down or cut it off like traxion did.

 

I think there are two different cases. One is where it hits on the bottom of the A arm mount where the headers run parallel to the ground.

The other is when it hits along the corner of the mount like in the pics I took.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

can some one tell me where they sell filters that I can install between my brain and mouth?

 

after getting no replies with pics, i decided to try it out anyway. I used uncoated 2210's, 79 350 block, moroso deep sump pan, and a th350 with spohn's torque arm and x-member. I HAD NO FITMENT ISSUES WHATSOEVER. i didn't clearance anything, and they didn't hit anything. i did use a mini starter to make it easier (LT1 starter). other than that, no changes at all. it was easy as hell. passenger side cam from the bottom, so did the driver's side. they both even bolted in with no problems. did have trouble getting around the dipstick. i had to remove the driver's side dipstick to make it easy, but then slipped it back in. thought this might help.

 

im purchased a set of these headers, uncoated going in my 86 trans am. im running performer rpm heads, but i have eibach sportline springs, what kind ground clearance issues am i gonna have.

who else has lowered vehicles with these hooker long tubes?

 

This thread really needs to have some time put into it and condensed so that all the questions are answered in a page or two, instead of 7....

Anyways, I have the hooker long tubes, and the car is lowered with hotchkiss springs... i have touched the collectors before, either on a road dip where i'm going fast or speed bumps... nothing that has caused any more damage than a scrape. Keep in mind here in ct our roads pretty much suck everywhere.

Anyways, if your car is lowered more than an 1.25 in the front, they are garenteed to hit things... get good shocks

 

yeah its lowered 1.6" in the front but it doesnt look like it, it still seems to sit kinda high but i have kyb gr2 shocks. i have read all pages actually and people just say they are lowered...not by what springs, or how much..

 

This is a modification you might want to do before installing or coating the 2210, for the clearance of the #7 pipe. Something that I did and it work really well for $100.00

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exha...-complete.html

 

I totally agree with the above modification. I had the same clearance problem with the #7 plug using these haders and AFR heads with ANGLE plug design. I switched over to these 2210s from the SLPs I had because of clearance issues with about half of the plug boots. Granted I still had issues with these headers but it wasnt hard to "fix" this problem and I stepped up to a better flowing header which should prove itself on the dyno for me when I get back there. I will try and get pics of my modification shortly.

Also, if anyone wants to attempt this by themselves then go for it. I had a spare head lying around so it was a little easier to work on the header on the table. If you can get an old SBC head then do it because the header should be bolted up tight to the head when you go to weld it up so the flange dont warp.

 

Just got some LT's so I will be telling my story soon lol. I also ordered a K member so I hope its real easy to drop in lol.

 

Could you use this on the slip pipe with RTV

 

I believe this is due to frame dimension differences between early and later year thirdgens as you also have an '82.All the frame dimensions I have found confirmed this back when I did frame repair work at a body shop.I have never actually measured, just going by Mitchell data and experiences from those that have installed. My 2210 headers went in easier than SLP and Hedman shorties much to my suprise.I had to slightly clearance the back of the k member on the passenger side...basically grind the weld down that runs down the center of it.That and I also cut out and welded in a different radius bend on the #7 tube as others have done for plug clearance with my AFR's.Easy fix if you have a welder and some time.

Mkos1980..is your slip pipe leaking excessive?I have never heard of any major issues with this spot and see no need for a clamp there.Copper RTV and install.

 

no lol I just bought them they are in transit.

 

Hell, with a Tubular K-Member, I bet there is no problems. I would have clearanced a little if I hadnt changed my mind with what I was doing.

 

I am installing 2210´s and like most of you I am having a problems with the K-member. Is it save to grind the K-member?

I have a ZZ383 with Fast Burn Heads.

Thanks, Nonni

 

Now I can honestly say I had a big problem with a Hooker, the passenger side one. I had to grind and weld a lot. If I would have known it would be that much of a trouble I wouldn´t have used 2210´s. My engine is ZZ383 with Fast Burn heads.

 

I am having problems with the #8 slip tube leaking. I have applied plenty of copper rtv on the #8 tube and the header itself, allowing more than 24 hrs for it to dry. I even put a clamp around it and it still leaks. About a day or 2 of driving, all of the rtv gets blown out. Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

i just bit the bullet and ordered the 700.00 monsters they call the 2210's..im excited...i have a 350 with double camel hump heads, no heater box, moroso solid motor mounts, a muncie 4 speed with manual z-bar clutch linkage, and a mini starter. am i gonna be in trouble? the moroso mounts are lower? i heard the clutch linkage isnt a problem tho..anyone with moroso mounts? also thinking about getting the mufflex y pipe is it dual 3" to a single 4"? also i can go to mufflex in trenton they are 40 minutes away... anyone wanna share?

 

The mini starter helps a lot and so do the moroso solid mounts (which I have in my car) The solid mounts help clear the headers better than the stock mounts i had. Good luck!

btw, Drex i just saw where you were from and I met up with you in Edison when i bought that 85 TA dash cluster....I ordered and installed the mufflex y pipe myself and drove down to mufflex and had them do the rest of the 4" exhaust with a Borla straight through muffler. If you look at Muffelx's website, they feature my car in their add for the Y-pipe. Man they do awesome work. Later, Joe

 

i remember that..good stuff... so what if i installed the long tubes and went to mufflex had them put on the y-pipe and the same 4" back...what would it cost with install at mufflex?

 

Personally I would try and save some money and do it all myself.....The Mufflex Y bolts right in and the rest of the exhaust (if you order from mufflex) is also straight forward. The only reason I drove to Trenton was to have them custom fit the muffler I provided.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...xhaust-007.jpg

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...xhaust-003.jpg

 

yeah i definitely would try but 1.) i heard the mufflex y-pipe didnt always fit perfectly all the time and 2.) my experience with exhaust is always bad.. always leaks and doesnt fit...... what did they charge you with the y pipe and the rest of the 4" tubing and install... i will find a muffler and cat and bring it to them ... is it gonna knock me outta my chair? and how long did they have the bird?

 

It took me some time to get the y-pipe to fit correctly but not that bad. The price of the y pipe is on the website. Mufflex charged me about $650 for parts and labor. All I did was supply them with a muffler. They supplied the intermediate, over axle and tailpipe. I waited for it to get done and it took a little over an hour to weld everything up. Btw, you will not have any type of catalytic converter with this exhaust system. PM me so we don't hijack the thread.

 

Just wanted to share my experience with installing these headers. The list on the first page is pretty much dead on. However, I only had to grind on the passenger side some, but not for the #8 primary. The other "cluster" was just touching the K-member itself, so I removed the extra material on the kmember, no biggie. I love these headers, spark plug access is great.

Also I wanted to list my combo just for reference.

New poly motor mounts
Lakewood bellhousing (for hydr. clutch)
tko 600 tranny
spohn tremec crossmember w/poly mount
AFR 195 heads, block 0 decked, heads angle milled to 58cc.

I think thats about all that would effect the header location. The toughest parts were working the starter back in for the passenger side, and actually installing the drivers by tilting the motor over. Other than that, they went in fairly smooth. I still need to do something about my starter wires. I bought some heat sleeve, so hopefully that will work. Here are a couple pics too.

 

Hey, I had to remove my knock sensor, and mount it in the passenger cylinder head

-pull the dipstick and I'll be putting that back in after the I have the starter in

-remove the oil cooler lines and the sandwiched cooler, because the tubes coming out of it were hitting a primary, so it wouldn't let me put the bolts in through the flange, into the head, until I removed it, I also removed the oil filter, for extra clearance

-I cut out two notches on each control arm support for extra clearance, more like two triangles of the extra material, I have seen that done a lot in pics, none in person, but it helps

-I raised the motor about 1" to get the drivers side in, then put the motor mounts, center bolts back in

-I also removed the oil pressure sensor, otherwise it would have been smashed in half, I still have to put that in

-when I put the drivers side header in, I removed the top flywheel cover bolt, because it seems silly, but it was actually hitting the flange when I was putting the header in

-The passengers side would have went in without having to jack the motor up, but I did it anyway, I am going to move the brake lines, they are a little close in some spots

-I have angle plugged World sportsman II's, the 200 CC models, so I think the plugs will be fine, it's the straight plugs that seem to be closer to the primary tubes

-I got all the bolts in each header, except for the #8 tube you can take out, I will put thoses in after the starter is back in

-except for the oil cooler removal, and knock sensor removal it went fairly well, took about two hours

I was wondering, who ever has used the LT1 starter or a mini starter; do you really have too? It's ok using a stock starter isn't it? Because mines fairly new.

I'm also on line as "formula3fity" on AIM and yahoo messenger, then we can talk about our installations together.

 

I am putting in my starter tomorrow, I'm using the original one, does anyone know for sure, if they just loosened the passenger side header to put the starter in?

I am probably just going to loosen the header and put in that way, I'm using the stock one, because it's fairly new, any help, thanks.

 

hey crons
seen you post a couple times that you relocated the knock sensor into the coolant sensor in the head. If you have an 86+ block there should be a coolant passage on the lower section of the block on the drivers side that just has a bolt threaded into it. It's the same size as the knock sensor, so you can just put the knock sensor there and move the bolt over to the passenger side

im about 3/4 of the way through my LT install, i at least have both of them in the engine bay.

with the lakewood bellhousing for a tko-600 it was a freaking nightmare.

drivers side would not go into the engine bay. just couldnt clear the edge of the bellhousing, finally with the dist cap off the motor, both motor mounts unbolted and the motor literally jacked as high as it would go (a good 6" over the mounts it finally slid in.
if i knew that was the way to do it it would have been so bad, but i spent all day screwing with the drivers side header just trying to get it in

should be able to get it running real soon tho will have pics and vids, am currently just trying to figure out how i can still use the factory oil cooler, where the header tube that obstructs it comes down it looks like it could be bent out of the way of the oil cooler, i dunno we'll see

 

you will definately need to un bolt the header if you have the hookers... I can't hardly get my mini starter in and out with it bolted up... Bottom line is they are a bitch, but on the dyno they were very worth it - better top end, better low end

 

Well, I do have a '89 block, there is a spot for the knock sensor on both sides, I saw a NPT fitting in the drivers side, but I'm just going to use the passenger cylinder head, I am using the World Sporstman II heads, that are for a '86 and older, I don't want to move all of my wiring, by undoing all of the factory stuff, this will work. I just got a plug, with a tap for putting the knock sensor in the middle of it, it just screws in.

I actually did get my factory starter in, when I had the #8 tube out of the car, I slid my starter in there, and got it bolted up, and put anti-seize on the header bolts for the flanges. I just have to put the fire-sheeth Taylor stuff I bought around the starter wires, and attach them, then put in the aluminum radiator I got from Summit for $152.95, then fans, and battery. I am just going to use the wires where the fan switches are at, and run those to two more wires I already have going into the car, and use a switch to be able to turn the fans on like I did before, but this time I'll use the factory relay's.

She'll be running soon, first time in 4 years, I shouldn't have taken her apart, the motor that is. On www.cardomain.com/ride/471099 I have pics of her up on the top of that page, well I actually have fresh pics of everything as I was going through putting her back together, and I have pics of my ported HSR. Check 'em out!

 

okay i didnt catch this problem before in the threads, see it now, what am i going to do about the fact that theres no room for the spark mplug boot on the #7 wire, are shorty plugs the answer? im really happy with the ngk's i have now and i dont have the means to put a little dent in the header, theyre already bolted up and im not taking them off now lol

 

What problem with the treads? I was just saying, you can use a plug, that has other threads, to tap something else into it, so you can plug the large hole, like the ones I have, the '86 and older heads have to use a 1/2" NPT plug, that has the middle drilled out and tapped, so that is what I have my knock sensor in.

I got my starter in ok, and I didn't have to jack the motor up more than a 1" the quality of headers at Hooker is really bad now. They ship them like crap, that's why I'm on my 4th set, I also think they use messed up Jigs for making the headers, because each set is a little different.

What is the problem your having on yours with the #7 plug?

I still have some more work to go, but between college and family stuff, weather and car shows, it's kind of difficult, I have pics of how my project is going on my site www.cardomain.com/ride/471099

 

spark plug boot is touching the the #7 cylinder

apparently accel makes shorty header plugs, problem solved

still trying to deal with the fact that my #4 header tube is hitting the frame grrrr

 

Yeah, I didn't have a problem with my #4 hitting anything, I did cut off triangles of both control arm supports, those were bashing the collectors, so I just figured, what the hell, even though it was a 1 of 25 made car, I'm cutting them off, I'm using long tubes, not shorties.

But yeah, the accel shorties are great plugs, so you won't have to dent the primaries. There are some other plugs available, but I'm not sure of what the brands were. Plug wire boots protectors, are great, and are more of a "save your wires" protection, for when you spend $60-80 on wires, you'll love to save them. If your just buying wires, don't get the black MSD superconductors, I had them, the wire protection is crap, under mild heat, it begins to crack. When I still had manifolds on my IROC-Z, the wire's insulation began to crack, and MSD wouldn't cover them under there warranty, just so anyone is aware.

I have a buddy, that just got his 2210's in his car, and he said for the #8 tube, that copper permatex worked great for getting that pipe in, before it was hard, then it was easy, so I'll do that too.

 

Like Keith said the cooper sil. workes great it actually helps in putting the no#8 tube in too.
HI KEITH!!!

 

Hey Barry, what's goin on? I found out how good it worked, from you, that's why I asked at that show. I put my dip stick in, and my plugs on friday, man there's tons of clearance with angle plugged heads, I thought there would be less, I was wrong about that.

I also have the wiring for the knock sensor and fan switches ready to go, I just have to run the wire into the car, but I have two already that go through the firewall, I just have to attach them to the fan switches.

After that's set up, I just need to fab up that pannel for the top of the radiator, to hold the radiator and the fans, upper two attaching bolts. The aluminum, universal radiator, I got from summit, fits, it's just a little too big to use that plastic upper piece that the third gen cars come with from the factory, but what can't you change without some modifications?

I also put some pics of the plug access on my site, check 'em out I'll put some more pics of the wires up in a few days.

 

I put my 2210's on today and I was quite disappointed. To start with, the first set I got was packaged like crap and were dented. So I sent them back and these were fine. So during the install, I had to clearance the driver's side where Traxion did, which was fine. I also had to clearance the passenger side where it was hitting the slip sube. No big deal, since I was expecting that. But I also had to clearance the passenger side where another primary was hitting the crossmember. And after all that, I even had to file some of the bolt holes in order to get them to properly line up.

I used a ministarter, new motor mounts and I did not have to move the motor at all. They both went in pretty easily from the bottom after removing the oil filter, oil pressure sending unit and the starter. I cannot comment on plugs and wires yet since they are on order.

 

Hooker's quality has gone down. They are made cheaper, more smashes in the mandrel bent tubing, cheaper packaging, more dented headers that you get shipped, it is disappointing. I have my fourth set in my car now, imagine how angry I was. I had to clearance my control arms, by cutting two triangles out of each one, and my first set, they didn't even finish drilling the holes in the flanges, for the bolts that go into the head. I wound up using my factory starter, they do fit, but a mini starter is easier to put in or an Lt1 starter.

I wish I would have used solid motor mounts, for more clearance, but mine are ok. Raising the motor did help put in the passenger side, but the oil filter, pressure sender had to come out, and the bolts for the oil filter holder, that's attached to the block, what did you do with yours?

I have plenty of clearance for the plugs, but my heads are angle plugged heads, I will probably start my car thursday or friday, I have pics on my cardomain site of the plugs, check 'em out

I used a ministarter, new motor mounts and I did not have to move the motor at all. They both went in pretty easily from the bottom after removing the oil filter, oil pressure sending unit and the starter. I cannot comment on plugs and wires yet since they are on order.

 

I just removed the oil pressure sender and the oil filter and slid the header up into place. Marked where I had to clearance, got out the grinder and was done with it. It would have taken me about 15 minutes to install the driver's side header if it wasn't for the crappy job Hooker did on the flange holes.

 

Does anyone have a pic on how the modified the factory oil cooler to fit with the 2210's?

 

i would like to know too

 

If you look at the factory oil cooler, it really isn't anything spectacular, I don't think it did that good of a job in the first place. Having a aftermarket one will work so much better than the factory one, it isn't even funny. Just get some rubber plugs to block the tubes on the radiator, and the front of the intake base. I got a Aluminum radiator, so it makes it irrelevant to need the tubes on the radiator. It's good to have the oil warm anyway, it helps build power when the oil is warm anyway. Just look in the summit catalog and pick up an oil cooler kit, they aren't that expensive.

 

-NEW 2210 installer here...

Can these be installed with the car on jackstands or should I get it towed over to a shop with a lift? And for those who have installed them, how high did you have to get your car off the ground?

 

I have a set of Craftsman 3 ton, tall jacstands. I had them up pretty high, do get a good set of crafstman jackstands, not the cheapo's, because they cheapo's won't let you go high enough. Because when you put them in, you have to angle the longtubes a bit, to slide them in, next to the trans, then wahlah, the headers are in. I think it was probably like 19" off the ground. I have two pics on my cardomain site, that shows how high the car was for me. They went right in from the bottom, cutting the control arm supports was a good idea though, otherwise it would be hitting the headers, maybe denting them when you get in the gas on the motor.

My site is www.cardomain.com/ride/471099

 

I dont have heads on my car yet, would it be easier for install to leave the heads off or have them on first?

 

on one hand i would say do it with the heads not on, will give you sooo much more room to slip the headers in.

on the other it might make the heads a pita to install.

as for taking it to a shop i did it in my gravel driveway. youre going to want to get the front of the car high enough in the air that you can pretty much stand the long tube straight up and down.

the way i accomplished this with tiny little stands is using 2x4 cribbing, 2 boards running one way, and then two boards running the other until i was as high as i needed. If you do this PROPERLY it is much safer then any other way you can have it on stands. be safe. thats my disclaimer lol

 

I put my stands on my subframe connectors, so they're was no safety issue. I don't think having the heads off would really help, but you could put the headers in from up top, the other way is from the bottom. But it's nice putting in longtubes, for more torque and a great sound, it's deeper in tone, I just ran my car again, it's winter here, so I run the car once a month.