Hey guys... been busy stuffing the 521cuin BBF and C6 trans into my bird, but im getting close to the point in needing to make headers. I purchased flanges, 2" primary tubes and 3.5" collectors (header kit). I also got POR20 1500 degree paint and Im going to coat the aluminized primarys/flange, reducers (3.5" to 3" then into a 3" xpipe with thrust mufflers and turndowns. Now after I get it all together and painted, Im going to wrap the headers with header wrap, I love the look. Now I got 2 rolls (2"x50') and stainless straps (harbor freight, 25 straps at 12" each for 5$ in 304 stainless!!! beat that! lol)

Now when i wrap the headers i have a few questions, DEI states that I dnt need to soak the wrap before installation with the Titanium wrap, Is this true? Also I know you have to coat the header wraps with silicone HT coatings... but I cant seem to find a "clear" silicone HT paint. I DO NOT Want to change the color of the wrap since the titanium color is AMAZING! Is there any clear silicone HT paints? I also heard that with the Titanium wrap does not need to be coated, is this true? i do not want the headers to rust fast since they are custom made by me, and I dnt plan on replacing them any time soon.

 

I actually just read that u cant apply HT silicone to the titanium wrap (not recomended) but that i could apply it to the header before wrapping (after painting). I guess this could work. Any other ideas? anyone ever use the titanium wrap? got any pointers?

 

Almost positive you don't have to soak wrap and positive you don't have to coat it after it has been applied. The HT coatings doesn't adhere well and it doesn't work well with the TI header wrap coating, that's what i was told and I didn't do either when I wrapped them. I had my old headers wrapped in the DEI titanium stuff and its easier to apply then the standard stuff. Its more expensive but well worth it. It looks great. About to get more wrap for my new headers.

A lot of people stay away from header wrap because it will enclose the heat inside header and heat it up past its structural limits. It makes sense. If you do a lot of everyday driving, or track racing. I would suggest against the wrap and get an inside and out HT coating. Places such as jet hot will do this for around 300$ or so I believe. My car is def not a DD so it doesn't see constant heat over long periods of time, Ill take it to car shows occasionally and love the look of the TI wrap.

 

Its been my experience from wrapping quite a few headers that the wrap goes on so much tighter when wet. The wet not only causes it to pull tight when drying but also the wet wrap is much likely to slide when wrapping, giving a much tighter result. You will probably use some color (black wrap turns a dark gray) but I like the better overall finish of a tight wrapped set of headers above a nice colored but sloppy wrapped set. Not saying you can't wrap them tight without the water but IMO it's easier done with.

 

Well DEI says not to soak the titanium wrap specificly. It also doesn't need to be coated. DEI states that the titanium wrap is much more plyable than regular wrap. Im more worried about wter getting trapped and rusting out the headers. Even if I paint the headers before... so would it be a good idea to coats the painted headers with the silicone stuff before wrapping them?

 

Thanks. Yea the car will be driven alot in the summer/ hit the track, but I never heard of heheating the steel above the structual limits. I also got this wrap for like 37$ for one roll of 2x50'... I had summit match the price. So for 80$ that's nothing compared to 300-400 for a coating... which in my opinion doesn't work that well. My brother had his nbc headers and sidepipes jet hot coated and he gets serious burns when his leg touches the sidepipes momentarily getting in or out of the car.

Wat is the structual heat limit of mild steel? Im using 2" aluminized 16 gauge tubing. Do I need to put stainless ties on the primary by the flanges? It just where I end the wrap? Also did u wrap from the flange to the collector? Or the opposite? I was told to ignore he instructions (which I didn't get with my wrap) and to go from collector to flange so the edge of the wrap doesn't collect water/ bugs and stuff.

 

Repeated heating and cooling of up to 1500 degrees can make steel become brittle over time and less able to absorb impact, Especially if the headers were homemade. Jet-hot coating does work well if you have read up on your information. Also if you have read up on information you would have read that the wrap seals in moisture and can cause problems inside the pipes. Make sure you properly HT paint the headers and cure them before wrapping.

I am just playing devils advocate here, I personally love the look of the DEI's TI header wrap better than anything, but I do also know the risks of any header wrap from an engineering standpoint.

I have also seen jet hots coating in person and I think it is very nice. When coated INSIDE and OUT this is a highly effective method and will outlast header wrap. Plus they offer a exceptional warranty as well.

Now if you are looking to save money and have a great look DEI ti wrap is great but be aware of the risks while using such products.

If you don't mind me asking what type of welding/rod/gas combo did you use when making your headers? That will play a large part when thinking of wrapping them.

 

i never stated that the jethot coating doesnt look good, it does but from personal experience it doesnt quite lower the temps of the pipe like some state, this is on sidepipes (4 " sidepipes) And one would think that they would be cool enough so u dont get an instant 2-3rd degree burn. my brothers exhaust was coated inside and out as well.

I beieve i stated that the wrap absorbs and traps water (see post #5) and This is why im asking if i should paint the headers with the silicone HT coating after they have been painted. I will be using POR20 1400 degree paint on the headers before wrapping them. Since DEI doesnt recomend silicone coating the wrap that would mean i could use it before as stated on their site to help with rusting issues.

I havent welded them yet, should have all the primaries/collectors tmrw, and the 3/8" mild steel flanges should be on there way. I will be TIG welding them, with a red tungston, E70s2 mild steel rod, and straight Argon gas.I will try to paint the inside of the primaries after welding with VHT flat black 2000 degree paint as well.

 

Actually while using the inside & out application of a high quality coating, it actually does lower the temps of the pipe itself. While It isnt doesnt keep touchable surface as cool as header wrap does but it lasts longer and It does work. Header wrap successfully reduces underhood temperatures by reducing the radiant heat from the headers, not actually reducing the temp of the headers but in turn increasing the temp of the steel because of heat soak and little radiant heat escaping.

When you use a quailty product such as por20, as long as you lay decent coats properly you shoudnt have to use a silicone base high temp sealer. I would recomend against using it at all. The por20 should be enough.

I used stainless ties anywhere I thought the wrap might be able to come loose. I didnt use any strict instruction when using the ties. They held fine for as long as I had them wrapped.

Looks like your method of welding is perfectly fine and more than enough to withstand the increased abuse of using header wrap.

Im not too knowledgable on TIG welding as I have never done it but I do own a mig and usually when I weld headers I like to use a small amount of c02 with argon to gain a little penetration. I dont use 100% argon because its expensive. I have used 100% before usually only on aluminum and it does produce superior looking welds although with less penetration.

 

I kno ceramic coating is" suppose" to reduce the actual temp of the tubing but it didn't seem to have helped in my brothers case. I've seen some paint that is designed for downpipes... forget the name but its a black paint and they showed it working better than ceramic coating and cost like 80$ to do 2 full headers. But I've heard mixed revews of it flaking off etc. My brother paid over 1000$ for just a pair of coated nbc headers and 2 side pipes coated... im not looking to spend that.

I've used POR15 as well as POR engine enamel both are great products.
. However getting the por15 to not flake off after a while or having chipped the paint (then I could pull it off in sheets) has been tough.

Im not sure if it was pure argon or argon/co2 mix but I dnt pay for it... I got a few half full tanks from some empty warehouses. I love to rig tho... much cleaner esp in a header since u wont have issues of burning through or creating issues of blockage in the tubes. When I mig weld I use pure CO2 since I only care about strength and could always grind down to clean it up... it would be a shame to grind on a TIG weld lol

 

So did u use stainless ties on the beginning of the primaries? Im not afraid of using ties... I got 5 packs of 25 for like 20$ lol. I just don't want it to loosen up

 

I'd use them on the beginning of the primaries, no reason not to. That's a great deal on them. I'd heard about using hose clamps to hold them, but with ties at that price screw that! LOL

TrickedOutToy (Something like that) had a build thread on the Fab board, he used the titanium wrap, on a turbo system no less. Don't think he used water or a coating on it, but whatever he did it turned out looking nice

 

lol i know! Im excited to start making the headers just so I can wrap them! How Do i use the ties tho? the dont seem to lock or have grooves (like a nylon tie wrap) so do i just pull it through and then bend the tie up and fold it over? then just snip off the excess with Wire cutters/dikes?

 

Those stainless ties will FIGHT you if you try to cut them with wire cutters lol, I had to bend and fatigue the metal until it broke when I used them before (Left a nasty sharp edge... Hmm). And yeah, they work just like a regular nylon one. Just gotta make sure you pull it through the right direction

If they fail for some reason, hose clamps

 

lol i figured they would fight me... yea i def dont want any sharp edges! I get enough cuts from snipped wire ties lol. I still cant understand how the SS ties work... there is nothing in the head of the SS tie to lock down on the tie as its pulled through. Its completely smooth on both sides of the tie. Is it just fricition that keeps it together or is there something going on there that Im not seeing.

 

haha or i could just get this... this would be amazing actually if i was willing to spend 840$ on a tool

http://cableorganizer.com/cable-tie-...l?=recommended

 

Probably costs them less than $30 to make

And yeah, my ties are smooth on both sides. But the part the strap passes through seems to be made differently, friction fit I suppose. They don't come loose though

 

im 100% positive thats a typo on the price

 

You sure about that? lol

http://cableorganizer.com/panduit/gs...tion-tool.html

http://www.tessco.com/products/displ...id=google_base

 

don't

wrap

the

headers

Its a waste of time and money and does NOTHING but cause problems down the road.

 

whys that?

 

im sorry but i just have to ask.. why a ford drivetrain in a camaro?....

 

i like to be different.

Originally i swapped in a ford 8.8 rear... they are impressively strong and I was able to make one fit for ALOT less than going with my (9bolt) rebuilt, as well as most aftermarket 12 bolts and 9" rears. I now have posi (strong posi with carbon fiber clutches in the new SVT mustangs) vs trying to rebuild the stock 9bolt cone posi... thats weak and burns out fast.

I then swapped in my baby... a 383 HSR with patriot heads and the XFI280 cam. with all the goodies, 30lb SVO ford injectors, 58mm TB, ported HSR. I also rebuild the 700r4 to handle 700hp. I tuned the engine myself with MOATES harware and software and the car was fastttttt! I should have been making around 460-480hp. But 3 months after i got the car on the road and less than 3000miles the car was stolen, they took the engine, trans, radiator, computer, hacked up my wire harness, stereo, speakers, amp, my HID projectors and ballasts.

I then said Im gona go ALL out! i was able to get the ford 460 and C6 matching trans for FREE! and it cost very little to stroke a ford 460 to 521cuin and make RETARDED power for cheap. Not to mention a qualtiy cast scat/eagle/stock ford crank can survive 1000hp due to 3" mains. It will cost less than my 383, make 600hp (with a mild hyd flat tappet cam) all below 5500 rpms, and make even more tq! A simple cam swap to a mechanical roller and intake change will net me more like 700-800hp depending on how much duration i want. Im keeping the GM intake walbro 255lph tank and running a bypass carb regulator, so the car will be all GM but the drivetrain.

reason i did the swap, cost, big cubes for little money, and no ones ever done it lol

 

oh and it was a firebird

 

that works... cant wait to see some pics

 

Normally I'd protest a Ford motor in a GM...

But it's over 500cid, so I'll let it slide Sounds badazzz actually

 

im waiting for the header flanges which should be here by the end of the week. So this week im going to try and throw in the trans and short block (with original heads) so i can start on the headers.

you really think its a bad idea to wrap them? i shouldnt have much by the primaries except the steering shaft, and probably the rear brake line ( i tried to run it as close to the subframe as possible) I also might have the fuel lines on the pass side but i gotta figure them out once the engine goes it. Then i rip the engine out throw on the new heads when i get them and figure out pushrod length.

 

normally i would also... but a Big block is a big block and they are all sweet in my book

 

I used wrap on the first set of headers I had on my camaro about 10 years ago and I had no problem with them at all, albeit, the car wasn't and still isn't driven in any kind of weather to promote a concern for rust. The wrap was on those headers for about 5 years and when I took that set of heads to replace them with the Hedman Elite coated headers, they were still solid with no rust. I have used the Hedman headers now for about 4 years and I am now getting ready to wrap these headers. These cars are so hot under the hood during the summer months and I am not sold on the coated only headers, too much heat, they look nice but just too much heat for me. Now, you throw in a stroked big block, he is going to have heat beyond belief. If your not driving the car in the weather to cause a rust problem, I say go with the wrap, I think you'll be glad you did unless you plan on driving with out a hood so the excess heat can be expelled which I have seen on a couple of third gens.

 

i have most of my exhaust wrapped just with fiberglass and it made a major difference in the cabin and floor temp of my car, and the fuel tank. anybody woh says headers wrap does nothing and it useless is clueless.

 

well i started my headers and it looks like im def going to have to wrap them anyway lol... i have absolutly NO room for anything with the 2" primaries! Not to mention the 521 ford is a monster and takes up the whole engine bay. I have it hugging the kemeber/brake lines and lokar oil dipstick so closely that i have no choice but to wrap it. hopefully the wrap works good enough so i dont melt my dipstick tube or affect my brake temps too much.

 

I say wrap them!!!
I have Hedman Elite headers (which come with their own ceramic coating) and I'm contemplating wrapping those too....

I wrapped my custom Y-Pipe because I routed it very close to my transmission and it works great. & a friend of wrapped his 68 Cutlass headers and you can actually touch them while the car is running....

As far as coating them, I thought that silicone spray was suggested so that oil and other flammable fluids don't soak into the wrap and become ignited.

Congrats on the build and good luck!!!!

 

thanks! im going to wrap them, i got 2 primaries done but they arent the best design. since i really have no room for them. They have a 3-4 90 degree bends in one primary lol. I hope the wrap holds up.

you cant coat the titanium wrap with silicon coating, they say not do to it. only regular wrap u can coat.