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Hi all.
I was wondering if I could get long headers (to fit my 383 Stroker) then get either an X or H shaped exhaust system? I understand the stock Y pipe went towards the passenger side... But would it work? Thanks!
Long tube headers are possible if you eliminate the catalytic converter. You'll need a different Y-pipe intended for long tube headers too. The exhaust pretty much has to go down the passenger side to have adequate ground clearance.
The Y-pipe into a single 3 inch exhaust over the axle is easiest to fit in these cars, and one of the least expensive options. You really don't need more than that unless you've got a lot of muscle under the hood. (For reference, I have 550 Hp and I use a 3 inch Y-pipe that merges into a single 3.5 inch pipe to a single muffler in stock location.) You can shop Summit Racing, Hawks Motorsports, and other places to see what exhaust systems are sold for our cars.
Odds are the long tube headers you buy won't mate up correctly to the Y-pipe you buy. An exhaust shop can fix that for you. There are a few complete kits out there from headers all the way to tailpipe where everything will bolt up nicely at home. You mentioned dual exhaust, Hooker sells a complete kit with dual 2.5" exhaust. Expect some sticker shock.
Can you live with an exhaust that drags on the ground frequently, that might potentially be torn off going over dips or bumps in the road, or speed bumps... Because most of the time when people try to pull off some cockamamie, rigged dual exhaust, it just doesn't fit for ****. You could buy 25ft of flexible exhaust tubing and bend yourself a true dual exhaust for your El Camino, it doesn't mean that you or anyone should, but I promise you some dipshit did. It was all I could do to stifle laughter while I rang him up and made his change.
Great place to start out would be, get up under the car (after it's SECURELY supported on jack stands) and LOOK AT IT. Pay particular attention to the way the one pipe there now, runs under the floorboard and around the various undercarriage things. Then after fully absorbing how the one pipe runs, imagine running a 2nd pipe down the other side, where there aren't ANY provisions built in for it to be there. Mentally picture where exhaust pipes would need to go... following the ENTIRE route, from engine to rear bumper.
Then come back and talk about a dual exhaust with a Y or H connection between the 2 sides.
I can tell you FOR SURE, running a non-stock exhaust configuration in one of these cars, is ONEHELLUVALOT harder to actually DO, than it is to post on the Internet about it. Sure, there are people who get it to work, but they typically don't go directly from a message board post to a finished product. It's not something you can buy ANYWHERE off the shelf, it takes serious fabrication skillz.
Given that a single 3" exhaust in the stock location will support in excess of 400 HP, there's just not much reason to go to all that trouble expense and risk, unless you're getting up above that power level, and you're willing to make many compromises to make it happen; not least of which will be, ground clearance, and weight. (after all, what good is a 5 HP gain, if you have to add 100 lbs to get it) I recall a friend of mine back in the early 80s who had a 71 Camaro (just about as exhaust-hostile as our cars, but in a different way); saved up ABUNCHA cash over a period of a year or more; bought a set of relatively higher-end headers; and went to a local exh shop, a GOOD one, and had THEIR BEST guy run a "custom" dual exhaust. By the time he got all done with it, he had literally A WHOLE MONTH of his take-home pay tied up in pipes under that car. Then THE VERY FIRST TIME he drove into his own driveway, as he got home immediately after leaving the exh shop, the driveway ramp tore THE WHOLE THING off from under his car, and smashed the header tubes.
Be careful what you wish for, in case you get it. Be even more mindful of what you spend your money on, lest you get that as well.
Seeing as you've the same engine/transmission combination as mine, my approach up to now has been with a single 3" and muffler in the stock location. LT headers were grafted to a 2 x 2.5" y-pipe. Performance wise, even for my modest power output, it's a verified restriction. So, that said, my next approach is a hybrid of the suggestions posted above.
I'm liking the looks of the BlackHeart dual exhaust. As before, it'll take a purpose built y-pipe to go from the Gen 1 headers to the duals but otherwise it's a bolt-in. It also has a X portion. It should be mentioned that the use of the Hooker transmission crossmember as a substitute for the OEM piece will make all the difference here in that it allows the typical lowest point to be tucked up tight.
That's my thinking anyway.
I put true dual exhaust on my car and have great ground clearance. I sure can put an H pipe setup on it and an X pipe is possible. The amount of work involved is just like mentioned above, not really worth a small fraction of the trouble. I did it just to to say I did, long tube headers, catalytic converters, and over the axle on both sides. Again a tremendous amount of work. What the OP needs to do is reveiw the 12 page dual exhaust picture thread sticky at the top of the exhaust section. That would be the next best thing after sofa's advice. You would see the issues everyone else is dealing with and that people are modifying that blackheart exhaust to mate up with whatever engine header combination they have and seem to be quite pleased with the results.
I think dual 2.5" pipes into a single 3" pipe is sufficient for a street NA 383. You may lose a few hp on the top end but it doesn't really matter. if you were really concerned or you had a 383 making over 500 crank hp you could go to a 3.5" y pipe but just a 3" pipe makes itself pretty cozy in the limited space over the axle. Here is mine as an example:
people still think dual exhaust cant be done good on these cars
Not a question of "can" or "can't"; rather, how much time effort and money it takes to do it, and what else needs to be adapted to allow it, and how little difference it makes at a "beginner" level. In a situation where everything else is effectively optimized, and the goal is a couple of thousandths better than the car in the other lane, and absolute max power is the overriding or even ONLY goal, maybe it's of value; if not, especially for a typical street car "in progress", it's a GIGANTIC maze to run, with virtually ZERO cheeeeeze at the end.
Think of it as the hot-rodder's application of the Pareto Principle.
Last edited by sofakingdom; 12-31-2018 at 03:46 PM.
Define beginner.
At 400 HP or so, I think the boundary is being crossed as to how the single 3" will limit performance. If only from some back to tests in the 1/8. where a cutout placed just at the turn into the muffler (and a poor one) improved the trap speed by about 1.5 mph.
Certainly 500 HP will require better flow. Not dual exhaust necessarily but enough breath to target a little better 2 cfm per HP produced.
Off the OPs topic a little but there's some value in the discussion.
Define beginner.
At 400 HP or so, I think the boundary is being crossed as to how the single 3" will limit performance. If only from some back to tests in the 1/8. where a cutout placed just at the turn into the muffler (and a poor one) improved the trap speed by about 1.5 mph.
Certainly 500 HP will require better flow. Not dual exhaust necessarily but enough breath to target a little better 2 cfm per HP produced.
Off the OPs topic a little but there's some value in the discussion.
i’ve seen ~15 whp from a cutout at the y vs 3” on a 330 whp deal
A beginner needs to start out with stuff they can do with their own hands, to feel the enjoyment of accomplishment, that doesn't bankrupt them if it goes wrong, that they can do with their own hands, that they can order and The Big Brown Truck just sort of lays on their porch like tan/brown cubic eggs, … NOT: stuff that is hard and ONE WRONG MOVE wrecks it, takes multi-k$$$ tools that they'll only use once, renders their car USELESS for any purpose other than "max power", things that they can't tell any difference RIGHT NOW that they just did.
For a beginner: converter, gears, cam, headers WITH Y-PIPE that bolt up to STOCK exhaust, brakes, tighten up the steering, get the BO smell out of the upholstery so that a potential SO isn't gagged by the stank, tires that don't slide off the road in a dark rainy night on the way home from school, … LOTS of things LONG BEFORE "dual exhaust" and those last 5 HP that only matter if you're in the lane at the strip that has less traction.
I've also seen cars go slower with open exhaust. It's not a one-size-fits-all recipe. And don't forget, those last coupla HP, or .001 seconds, or whatever, doesn't count for awholehelluvalot while you're sitting looking up your driveway with a year's disposable income crushed on the concrete underneath you, or you're outta gas but your wallet is empty, or your crush is sitting next to you and mad at you because your car busted … again … on some dark road out in the middle of who knows where far from help. That's a REAL quick way for somebody to get discouraged and abandon the hobby altogether. We're not all as hardcore as you or me from the 1st moment we started out.
Again, I can't emphasize strongly enough, it's NOT that I'm saying "dual exhaust" isn't A Good Thing, let alone Can't Be Done; only, that there are MANY OTHER things that someone at this stage of introduction (FOCUS WITH ME here... introduction... NOT maturity) into this hobby, should tackle FIRST.
Last edited by sofakingdom; 12-31-2018 at 06:40 PM.
There is something to be said for understanding your audience. Sometimes the appropriate answer is going to be different depending on who is asking the question.
Sometimes the appropriate answer is going to be different depending on who is asking the question
This is most certainly true.
What I, or Orr, or Qwk, Drew would do, is NOT AT ALL the same thing that we would tell someone just starting out in this hobby to do. For some of us, the tolerance of risk and work and pete-pete-pete-repete until we achieve, is just part of it. But not for someone who has no BTDTGTTS. Sure, we want to set the goal kinda high; sure, we want to prod beginners into aspiring for greatness as opposed to just plodding down the well-worn path; but at the same time, there's GOOD REASON why some of the things that are rarely done, are rarely done, and why some (but NOT all) things that are commonly done, are common.
Dual exhaust in these cars falls into one of those splittings of the path.
This is most certainly true.
Dual exhaust in these cars falls into one of those splittings of the path.
I agree. I spent a lot of time under my car trying to figure out the right path for dual exhaust. Could it be done? Yes. But cost and time was to follow the path GM provided. Run the single 3".
A beginner needs to start out with stuff they can do with their own hands, to feel the enjoyment of accomplishment, that doesn't bankrupt them if it goes wrong, that they can do with their own hands, that they can order and The Big Brown Truck just sort of lays on their porch like tan/brown cubic eggs, … NOT: stuff that is hard and ONE WRONG MOVE wrecks it, takes multi-k$$$ tools that they'll only use once, renders their car USELESS for any purpose other than "max power", things that they can't tell any difference RIGHT NOW that they just did.
For a beginner: converter, gears, cam, headers WITH Y-PIPE that bolt up to STOCK exhaust, brakes, tighten up the steering, get the BO smell out of the upholstery so that a potential SO isn't gagged by the stank, tires that don't slide off the road in a dark rainy night on the way home from school, … LOTS of things LONG BEFORE "dual exhaust" and those last 5 HP that only matter if you're in the lane at the strip that has less traction.
I've also seen cars go slower with open exhaust. It's not a one-size-fits-all recipe. And don't forget, those last coupla HP, or .001 seconds, or whatever, doesn't count for awholehelluvalot while you're sitting looking up your driveway with a year's disposable income crushed on the concrete underneath you, or you're outta gas but your wallet is empty, or your crush is sitting next to you and mad at you because your car busted … again … on some dark road out in the middle of who knows where far from help. That's a REAL quick way for somebody to get discouraged and abandon the hobby altogether. We're not all as hardcore as you or me from the 1st moment we started out.
Again, I can't emphasize strongly enough, it's NOT that I'm saying "dual exhaust" isn't A Good Thing, let alone Can't Be Done; only, that there are MANY OTHER things that someone at this stage of introduction (FOCUS WITH ME here... introduction... NOT maturity) into this hobby, should tackle FIRST.
This is really well stated. If your budget is $200 than that means it really should be $100. There are always hidden and unforeseen costs. For beginners, the cheaper the budget, the more hidden the costs. There is always a time and place for cheap but maybe you should park the car (assuming you have another ride) until you can fund it appropriately. A running and driving 350hp car is so much more fun than a theoretical 400 hp car.
It's interesting how these threads morph from one question to something else. Could has become should and from that all sorts of well intentioned advice is dispensed.
I know nothing of the OP other than there's a 383 involved. For all I know they're a veteran racer with a simple question.
It's interesting how these threads morph from one question to something else. Could has become should and from that all sorts of well intentioned advice is dispensed.
I know nothing of the OP other than there's a 383 involved. For all I know they're a veteran racer with a simple question.
Fair point, but he has another thread detailing his constraints and situation and this is a branch off his overall goal. They really should be merged.
I contemplated duals and decided against at the time. Mine is a 3" custom made Y pipe and 3.5" single pipe to the back. I do run a cutout towards the back of the car. There might be some performance to be had, but the real question what is @ChelseaHere after? Is it a specific sound or performance I think that is the real question.
I contemplated duals and decided against at the time. Mine is a 3" custom made Y pipe and 3.5" single pipe to the back. I do run a cutout towards the back of the car. There might be some performance to be had, but the real question what is @ChelseaHere after? Is it a specific sound or performance I think that is the real question.
When I bought the car, the guy was in the process of restoring it. It did not come with any exhaust. Only headers. So getting a new exhaust system is very much needed right now. I'm also still in school but don't drive (this is my only car) and I do school through my laptop. I have time to have it sit but I can't tinker with it due to how loud it is. I need to get an exhaust set up so I can acually restore it (I also need to replace the fuel pump and can't test it out if the neighbors are complaining about how loud it is). I don't really care for horsepower. I won't be speeding anyway (at least any time soon). A simple exhaust is fine. A nice sounding one is a plus..
Based on the information you've provided you basically have one option. Or at least one that represents the fewest twists and turns (no pun intended).
A simple aftermarket "cat back" consisting of a single pipe (3" is the most commonly available) over the axle and through a muffler in the stock location. What that entails though is some fabrication to get from your LT headers to the after market cat back. As illustrated below:
That is a Gen 1 SBC with Hedman LT headers. The two into one merge (on the far right) is a Magnaflow part. From there it connects to a plain old Flowmaster single 3" cat back, over the axle to a single 3" in/out muffler in the stock location. The variable here is what some shop would charge to build that y-pipe. Above is sectioned 2.5" stainless steel selection of Vibrant pieces cut up to fit the appropriate profile needed. Parts were expensive and there's a lot of labour involved in that particular piece. It could be done for less with mild steel tubing and MIG welding as opposed to SS tubing and purge welded TIG.
I can dig up the Magnaflow part number if you're interested.
I'll stand corrected on the one option deal. You could, very inexpensively extend the collectors to pair of mufflers hung underneath with muffler dumps just in front of the rear axle. That approach trends to be ground clearance limiting however it is inexpensive and may serve the purpose for now.
I'm very confident I can do this with a budget. I am even more confident I can do this in my situation
You say its loud? Does that mean you at least have exhaust manifolds on the motor? If so, keep those and go with a simple cat/cat back setup to get you on the road.
If you want to pull this off on the really cheap, and depending on how low your car is, you may be able to make a pair of header mufflers fit under there (seeing as you said you had headers). Clearance won't necessarily be the best but it could be a bolt-in deal and allow you to continue working on the car without fear of waking the neighbours.
Good old Thrush Glasspacks. http://www.thrushexhaust.com/thrush-...ter-24223.html
I'm not necessarily saying this is the way to go but if might be an option. Just to get you going.
Come to think of it, I too have to re-fabricate my exhaust (including the y-pipe posted earlier) but, in order to get to the track sooner rather than later, I may invest in these myself.
I bet they sound GREAT.
You say its loud? Does that mean you at least have exhaust manifolds on the motor? If so, keep those and go with a simple cat/cat back setup to get you on the road.
I have headers only. One is an ugly orange color (cast iron) on one side and the other looks to be a stock one(cast iron). I thought getting this done along with replacement of the headers would be a good upgrade haha much more complicated than I thought. Many different opinions too haha
If you want to pull this off on the really cheap, and depending on how low your car is, you may be able to make a pair of header mufflers fit under there (seeing as you said you had headers). Clearance won't necessarily be the best but it could be a bolt-in deal and allow you to continue working on the car without fear of waking the neighbours.
Good old Thrush Glasspacks. http://www.thrushexhaust.com/thrush-...ter-24223.html
I'm not necessarily saying this is the way to go but if might be an option. Just to get you going.
Come to think of it, I too have to re-fabricate my exhaust (including the y-pipe posted earlier) but, in order to get to the track sooner rather than later, I may invest in these myself.
I bet they sound GREAT.
I'll be sure to look into these! Thanks for the info!
Back in the day my buddy had a late 70s El Camino with a Goodwrench 350. He bolted some "Purple Hornies" (header mufflers) onto his Dynomax long tubes, made it almost a week before he tore them off pulling into/out of parking lots. Can't remember if he ever got different mufflers, but my ears are still ringing from riding in it with open headers. Setting off car alarms while mother's grabbed their children playing in the front yards while he rocketed past like the Blue Angels in a low high speed fly-by...
The trick is learning from history. Food for thought.
The trick is learning from history. Food for thought.
True enough. History has taught me that despite spending way over my budget (as a student around a hundred years ago) to get a "full exhaust" on the Chevelle after the cops busted me for having under the car dumps, that spinning out and driving over a culvert removed that exhaust and all the work and money that went into it. I just should have stayed with the dumps and ducked the cops. So anything can happen. Like your friend losing his on a driveway entrance. But, there are plenty of satisfied customers with header mufflers. So much so, that I believe Thrush revived the formerly discontinued item and brought it back by popular demand.
I'll admit it's not everybody's cup of tea though.
I'm just throwing the possibilities out there in an attempt to give the OP some insights.
Personally, get me back to the two post lift, pipe bender and welder and a well built, tight fitting and well functioning exhaust system can be designed and built. It's just that not everybody (including myself these days) has that as an option.
I have headers only. One is an ugly orange color (cast iron) on one side and the other looks to be a stock one(cast iron). I thought getting this done along with replacement of the headers would be a good upgrade haha much more complicated than I thought. Many different opinions too haha
So it sounds like you already have exhaust manifolds on. Since you don't care about added power, spend the little money you have now and complete the exhaust. Keep your goal focused to get you car usable. I am all for going big but sometimes the best answer isn't the most fun.
A little reading comprehension on my part would have been useful. The questions were could I get LT headers and fit an X or H pipe. I read that as have headers....
And that being the case as suggested above a standard over the counter manifold back exhaust is probably the least expensive (and most viable) way to go.
Last edited by skinny z; 01-04-2019 at 05:56 PM.
Reason: Because speeling is important
If you convert the car to full independent suspension the dual exhaust fits perfectly LOL--
I agree with others do a two into one (y-pipe) and run a single 3 or 3.5 inch to the muffler with dual outs. Do you have to have cats installed where you live (well technically anywhere in the US you do but do they enforce it with testing/inspection where you live). I would buy one of the pre made cat back kits from Magnaflow or Flowmaster and install it, take it to a muffler shop and have them bridge the gap between your headers and the prefab kit.
Otherwise you can buy some cheap kits off amazon/ebay with a bunch of angles etc and build your own... I woldn't do that without a welder though (even a cheap o flux core welder will work just make sure you know welding safety).
You could also go to the junk yard and find a exhaust off a 4th gen and do it real cheap only one hangar is wrong on the axle back part... or go junkyard browsing... you never know what you may find. Though I guess exhaust rusts pretty quickly where you live. Though I know a few "good ol boy" muffler shops that still bend their own pipes and if you don't mind aluminized pipe can do a nice job for cheaper than you can buy the pre fab kits. If you go this route you can get it driving and not so loud and work out the kinks and then decide if you want to drop the money on a high dollar exhaust.
Back in the day my buddy had a late 70s El Camino with a Goodwrench 350. He bolted some "Purple Hornies" (header mufflers) onto his Dynomax long tubes...
12-31-2018, 01:21 AM
Sure, there are people who get it to work, but they typically don't go directly from a message board post to a finished product. It's not something you can buy ANYWHERE off the shelf, it takes serious fabrication skillz.
