Originally posted by SERPENT99
The conversion depends on if you want the HF start or not. Some tig welding can be done by starting the arc by scratching the torch on the material , but other material I think like aluminum needs to start the arc without touching the material, so you need an HF system to start the arc.

Mig is easy, if you can figure out how to use a crayon, you can figure out how to mig weld. My son was 9 and he was laying better beads than I can after a little practice, I drink too much coffee

Originally posted by 85TransAm406
that's my problem, it's hard to take a course like that when you are in the Army. And the Army MAKES us mechanics send any welding jobs to the welding shop, which makes it hard to pick up on this stuff. I know i need to practice, i was just lookin for general info, like why you have to use AC when TIG (GTAW) welding aluminum, and which rods you should use when welding certain things, stuff like that...

It is also real easy to make a decent looking weld that has no penetration with a MIG, especialy a cheaper one that doesn't have much adjustability. If your welding out doors you will need to run flux core wire in a MIG which is quite dirty.

On the different types of machines....

TIG - Tig creates beautiful welds, however its probably the most expensive machine, it's not very portable at all because it needs to be water cooled most of the time, although I've heard of air cooled systems. It's also more suited for thinner materials just simply due to the fact that it's more time consuming. On the other hand it can give great penetratration and the welds are very easily finished off. It creates less mess and is more efficient that way. It's one of the more difficult to learn, but the upside is the amount of control you have over your welds. Tig is very closely related to acetylene in terms of technique as you use a filler rod and heat the metal with the torch (in this case a tungsten), but you also have a foot pedal to control the amount of heat you want (to an extent).

ARC - The slang term is of course STICK welding, because you burn an electrode rod (a stick) to use as a filler rod. Mostly suited for construction. I suppose you could technically use it for body work, but you'd have to get a small 110 machine for sheet metal and use very small arc rods. I particularly don't like the very thin rods as they aren't very firm and can be difficult to handle (they wobble). An arc welder could be very useful for heavy duty welding like frames, or shortening axles if you know how to do that sort of thing, but idealy it isn't suited for cars. It also creates a lot of mess. Welding with bare electrodes is very difficult to master, and your only other option is what the majority use, flux covered rods, which create a ton of slag and mess.

MIG - You could teach a monkey to MIG weld if you set the machine for him. Mig is the autobody weapon of choice. Pull the trigger and go. It's really that simple. As with all other welders, you have to space out your welds, or you'll heat up the metal and warp it.

FLUX CORE - Flux core welders are not technically MIG machines. They usually get lumped in with MIG's because all MIG machines can run flux core wire. Don't be fooled by those little 110 flux core welders on Ebay. They will not do what you want them to unless you're only doing thin body work all the time. Almost all of them don't even have a hookup for a bottle, so you can't upgrade them to a true MIG, and thus you can only run steel wire. You will not be able to run aluminum. They do not make alumium flux core wire. They DO make stainless flux core, but I believe it's only in .035 wire and most of these flux core units are .030 only (these numbers refer to the wire size. Flux core literally means the wire has a flux core center. Flux is what shields your welds from impurities so you have a good weld. MIG and TIG units use a gas shield, flux core units use flux cored wires and don't require a gas. Arc units have the flux on the electrode.

As far as what machine, those machines you listed are hard to compare by what they have listed there, mostly because they don't list the same statistics for all of them. Things I noticed... The Miller already comes with a spoolgun, and it will weld up to 1/2" in a single pass, which is awesome. The Hobart lists duty cycles and appears to run quite a few different wire sizes. The Lincoln seems to have even better duty cycles than the Hobart. Duty cycle is the percentage of time you can use the welder per minute if I remember correctly, so 60% duty cycle is actually 100% of the time. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's what my welding instructor told me.

As mentioned before Ebay is really the best place I've found to buy a welder IF YOU ARE BUYING NEW. If you find the right seller you don't even have to pay shipping. If you're buying used, don't waste your time. I would personally want to check out any welder in person before I spent the money on it, unless you're a complete welding expert and you know all the details beforehand.

What machines to choose? A 110 will get most people by working on their car and most home projects, provided it'll go up to around 1/4" thick on a single pass, or just under. If you think about it, even car frames are only made of something like 3/16's material. 1/4" should be enough for any job on a car, and almost any home project. Keep in mind that 1/4" maximum in a single pass does not mean you can only weld up to 1/4". You just have to bevel the material and run multiple passes.

If you want to run aluminum, I would invest in a spoolgun and a 220 unit. A spoolgun helps control the soft aluminum wire so you're not pulling your hair out when the wire tangles up 9 times per 5 beads. Most people have told me that to run aluminum on a regular basis you'll want a 220 unit, so that's what I'll be investing in. To run aluminum you're also going to want to change your gas. Most people run 100% argon, or a helium mixture.

Btw, when I talk about 110 units and 220 units, I'm referring to the amount of current that goes through your wall socket for those who didn't pick up on that. That's also a pretty normal general description for a welder as _most_ 110 units are only rated up to 100 amps max, so it's an easy way to refer to a welding machines potential power.

IF you really want good welding information, go to www.aws.org, that's the American Welding Society's web page, and they have a bulletin board to help with any technical questions, but welding really has to be learned hands on.

If I didn't answer something, ask them, or shoot it this way and I'll try to answer it. I'm by no means an expert, I'm still taking classes, and I haven't found a job yet in the field, but that is my field so I think I'm somewhat qualified to help you out

Originally posted by ede
i think whoever posted the part you quoted doesn't have a clue about welding or what is avaiable as far as welding equipment goes. i quit reading before i was half way down the page. gmaw, gtaw, smaw or mig, tig, and stick are all arc welding processes. you don't need a water cooled torch to tig weld. i've welded 24" sch 80 pipe with tig so that sort of shots the thin material idea in the *** for tig.

have a clue about welding or what is avaiable as far as welding equipment goes

Originally posted by ede


there's about a hundred more but these are the big ones

Originally posted by ede
bnoon i say you can make very nice looking welds with mig and have no penetration at all because it's true. good discoloration isn't an indication of anything but heat and heat isn't good, depending on alloys. wire speed is amps as is stick out with gmaw, or mig, so you'd want the wire speed up not down.

bnoon ever had one of your welds bent or RTed? i doubt it or you'd have a little better understanding of some of the dynamics involved. i'd also go as far as to say anydumbass or juts about any dumbass can make a functional weld on exhaust pipe.

Originally posted by SERPENT99
are we here trying confuse 85TransAm406, impress him, or are we trying to help him decide what he needs to get good value for the time and money he's going to invest in trying to gain the ability to weld?

A good MIG is the answer.

Originally posted by TKOPerformance
I see that you are relatively new to the boards, so let me impart a little information that I've picked up.

Most of the time these threads start out with someone asking a question. Several opinions or comments follow. Then things spiral out of control. The thread turns into an argument as people try to prove that they are "right", even when all that can be stated on the subject is opinion! People post back defending themselves, and the whole thing turns into a mess that doesn't help the originator in the least. It sucks, but that's usually the way it goes.

That being said, I think that to get started you should go with a MIG or a stick depending on what you can afford. The key is to educate yourself on the various types of machinery out there, and then make up your own mind!

Originally posted by SERPENT99

I would give my nuts for my millermatic 200.

But, there is no arguing that TIG is superior for neat "seamless" welds.

Originally posted by jmd88iroc-z
My opinion (who cares?) is that books are good for facts. I'm "old school" and I've found that getting a welding shield and watching over a man's shoulder, who knows what He's doing, and talking with Him about it is the best way to learn. In other words, "hands-on" experience is better than "book-sense".
Only my opinion (then again, WHO CARES?).