I wasn't going to post this, but figured i would throw it out there and see what you guys think. Got bored this winter with no car projects to do and layed out and built a mumford link. Im sure a certain somebody will pop in here and tell me i did something wrong, but hey, thats how you learn. Besides, it was a fun project.

If i did it again, there are a couple details i would do differently, mainly added support for the main pivots, probably make the crossbar out of 2 pieces of 1" square tube and run one bar high and the other low, mounting everything between them for some added stability, but for now this is it.



Thats pretty much all the parts, minus the rod ends and connector tubes, bolts ect. Im using HDMV bushings for the main pivots, if everything works out well i'll have new set machined out of aluminum with real bearings.

The crossmember bolts in place of the stock panhard bar and upper support. I ended up using bolt on LCARB's to mount the axle side mounts, and with bolts and spacers, i allowed for adjustment on the axle side as well to help keep the roll center in the stock location even if you lower the car, and for fine tuning other times.

Now, im sure somepeople are wondering aobut the springs, well i tried my best to keep the stock coil spring locations, but it just wanst going to happen, i couldnt get the axle mounts high enough, and the connector tubes long enough to get enough articulation to keep the setup from binding if you dropped the axle. so...

i have a bunch of parts i can't use now


and i have to use coilovers for the rear, which is fine, but more $$$ than i wanted to spend on this project.


oh, and is the panhard supposed to look like this?


The PO must have backed into something an hit the bar, it was bent toward the front of the car and twisted.

this is kinda how the axle mounts assemble, the v-shaped plate welds to the bumpstop plate on top of the stock axle, and to part of the remaining spring perch. Made me a bit happier because i dont have to weld directly to the axle tube and possibly warp it.


Mocked up without bushings it looks kinda like this



you can see how the axle side can be adjusted. Ignore the sweged tube, its just for mockup, im making 1" tubes with adapters for the rod ends later.

I had to have the connector arms aim inboard a little, its not as much as it seems in the pic since the main pivot bushings are out and everything is really loose and off. Not sure how/if that will affect anything.

i made the little clevis's for the axle side mount, and im not happy with them, so im going to look into making them out of a piece of solid stock instead of welding them together. Hopefully i can manage that myself, or have to get a friend to machine them for me.

 

So anyway, at the highest setting, the roll height is stock, and i can lower it over 5" is it needed to be. I think its a little overkill, but you can never have too much adjustment right?

The pivots are also really close to the fuel tank, i think i have 1/2" of clearance when they are straight up, thats why half the pivot arms are shorter.

the triangular pivot mounts just touch the heatshield, and the pivot bolts should clear a 10/12bolt with a girdle. I think :fingerscrossed:

 

Nice fab work

Curious if it will actually help your cornering

 

it should make a noticeable difference. I wont know how much until i get the parts back and finish the install.

 

Just a question. Wouldn't a watts link be easier to make. simpler and just as effective? That what most of the CP class autocrossers use.

 

its just about the same work as a reverse watts, just an extra pivot, so no massive amount of extra work. The mumford does have benefits above and beyond the watts linkage though, so its work the extra work. Besides, how else has one? Dean hasn't made his yet, and i dont know of any others on f-bodies.

Its different and unusual, so it has a bit of uniqueness to it. It was a fun project too, and some good experience.

im actually getting everything back from powdercoating tomorrow, so maybe this weekend i can get most of it installed, I still have to finish the connection rods and coat them, and a couple other little pieces before its all finished.

 

I will agree with you on that point. Looks like great Fab work, wish mine looked so clean. At least you gave me a great idea how to start building my Watts link with that crossmember.

 

if i did it again i would make the crossmember more like the fayes2, with 2 smaller tubes running high and low for extra support. That does make it more comples though with more welds, or the need for a square tubing bender.

 

I haven't looked into this so I don't know, but are your leverage ratio's right?

 

in regard to what part? since the center of gravity is still the same, and the roll center can and is still at the factory height, nothing has moved, although it can be changed and adjusted as needed.

As for progress, its moving along, had everything coated and its assembled on the car, had to have 2 clevis brackets machined and now im just waiting to get the connector arms and some misc parts back from powdercoating. Had some issues with my coilover setup that needed to be resolved and that took a little more priority over the rest.

Took the time to touch up a couple small spots on the underside that were beginging to pickup some surface rust.

 

So...is this a replacement for the panhard bar? Is it for track use only or can it be used on a daily driver?

 

its on my summer driver, this one is an experiment, might make another one later with some changes

it does away with the panhard

 

Did you mount it where the panhard brace goes on the body?

 

yes

 

I'd love to see some more pics of this. Any new progress?

 

no new pics, ran into trouble with the coil-over setup, lost a lot of time fixing that issue, had some parts machined, and I should have the last of the parts back from powdercoating tomorrow?, had a little delay Then i can put it all together and weld the last of the brackets on the axle.

weather is getting nice and im itching to ge the car out of the garage so i can park my truck for the summer and get some things fixed/serviced on that.

 

Well I'll be watching for updates on it... curious to see how ya feel it compares.

 

finished up the install today, along with the coil-overs and related BS.

went for a spin and nothing fell off, so thats good news!

and i managed to nail the ride height first shot, the spring and lower mount for the coilover were perfect. I was quite impressed, finally something went right.

The car defiantly feels different, but i need a little more seat time, i just took a little trip around town and out on some counrty roads. IT does feel different, but i did install the coilovers and slightly stiffer springs too. The car does turn either direction more evenly and rolls the same way too, the jacking from panhard in gone.

I need to throw it around a bit harder in a more controlled situation and see what happens. But as far as this project goes, it was a success and im happy with the result.

 

Sounds VERY cool. This "jacking" effect. I'm wondering if that's what I'm experiencing now. When I take a corner hard (sharper corners more so) it literally feels like the rear end on the side on the outside of the turn literally picks up. I'm sure the tire isn't leaving the ground but it's certainly a weird feeling. I put in a BMR track bar and use an EdelB adjustable panhard. Rest of suspension is all tubular Spohn products + Spohn sub-frame connectors.

 

i think the jacking is when you turn right?, and if you have the BMR upper panhard relocation bar, its probably much worse because of the altered roll center.

 

How much lifting accually happens? 1/2" , 3" has anyone ever tryed to measure this with the panhard setup?

 

would be interesting to know.

 

If someone buys me the part I'll gladly test it.

 

Let me know when you have time to come over and help me start building this for my car Phil Now that I got the 6 speed in the 73 Camaro I have time to start working on the 91 again!

 

so the 73 is road worthy again? sweet.

you got stuck under my car

if you want to make one, let me know, i have to do a little work and redesign the crossmember and see whats needed to do that, then we can build something crazy for the 91, just dont set it of fire when its done

 

Yeah,, I drove the 73 about 50 miles tonight and maybe 20-25 the other night when I finished it.

Yes, I DID get stuck under your car, lol. I was about 2 seconds away from telling you to start pulling me by the ankles. Woulda hurt too from the road rash I would have gotten

Yeah I want to make one, no doubt about it. I figure it is out for the count right now, I may as well just go all out and make something nicer than the stock rear end.
Fire? Thats low If you would stop taking your cars apart maybe you could actually drive them

I am a little surprised Dean hasnt commented on your setup at all.....

 

i talked to him when i started this, since he plans to produce these one day, he made it clear that he wont post in reguard to this, since his ultimate design is "secret" and he doesnt want sombody to rip it off. I have a good idea of most everything he wanted to do along with this setup, i just dont think its going to be as simple as he thinks. Its a little tight up in there and clearance for everything is limited. I would be interested is seeing what he some up with whenever he builds one, if he ever does.

 

touche!

 

I guess I am just wondering. Other then both bars being low on a mumford, rather then one low and one high on a Watts link, what makes this superior to a watts linkage? Of All of the built up autocross and road race cars that I have seen, most are useing a watts link and the rest have a panhard bar. Just seems like a hell of a lot of work for very little if any advantage. No doubt, it is neat looking but can it really do that much more over a more traditional watts link?

 

i guess the advantages are that you can lower the roll height much more than a watts without loosing ground clearance, and its supposed to be better at maintaining the roll height/center where as with a watts link, it migrates a little. Also give a lot more fine adjustment then you could achieve with a watts, i can move the roll height in increments as small as 1/16" at a time with my setup, not sure if thats terribly important or not. It also does a better job keeping the rear centered, a watts link will still allow lateral movement, though in the ROM the rear in the car goes through, its not all that much.

And again, honestly, its not much more work to build than a reverse watts like the Fayes2. Just one extra pivot. you still need axle mounts with the watts and the mumford.

 

just a FYI fact, 05 and newer dodge durango's and possibly dakotas had a watts link from the factory.
http://www.dodge.com/shared/2009/dur...durango_09.jpg

the PT cruiser came with one as well.

i imagine that the reason was to let the designers use a really high roll center out back, which would match with a huge front roll bar.
this way you get understeeer that builds progressively, and a cushy ride to boot

 

rx7's had them too

 

My uncle's '39 Chevy coupe has it too.

 

from the factory?

cool

 

Any more pics with the coil overs installed. This seems like an interesting mod.I would love to see an anamation with this setup in motion.
ps. anyone find out how much "jacking" happens with a panhard?

 

No, the car is far from stock. Let's just say the car is worth a nice 4bed/3bath house. (or at least he stuck this much in it) lol It's his "baby". He's had the car since 1972.

That is based entirely on how the car is setup so you will never get a straight answer.

 

no pics right now, i have been really busy the last few months and recently for carlise, but i have some down time now so i can get the car back in teh garage, go over all the bolts and make sure things are still tight.

I have to do something with the heat shield, its banging around a bit and is getting annoying.

I'll grab some pics when i get back to the car, maybe this weekend if there is time.