Convertible Top Replacement Tips
04-24-2003, 08:30 PM
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Car: 91 Trans Am Convertible
Engine: 300 HP 350 CI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Drums?
Convertible Top Replacement Tips
I just finished installing my new top, so I thought I would post some tips for anyone who is thinking about doing this. It was not terribly difficult just a pain trying to figure it out.
First of all, here's a list of tools you will need.
1. A drill and bits for removing small rivets.
2. A rivet gun and short rivets to replace the ones you drill out.
3. Clamps to hold things in place when measuring, test fitting,
and gluing. I used the type that are like large alligator clips.
4. A set of allen wrenches.
5. A small torx screwdriver. Also a regular phillips head. Pliers
will also come in handy.
6. Locktite (Blue)
7. A good pair of scissors used to cut cloth. A razor knife will also
be helpful.
8. Glue. I'm not sure what type of glue is used originally, I
ended up using some rubber cement, which seems to be
working out well. If anyone has suggestions for better glue
post them.
9. A tape measure and/or ruler. Also a pencil is handy for making
marks.
10. Grease, and lubricant for the mechanisms.
11. Paint thinner. I used this to remove all the old glue and give
a nice clean surface for the new glue. The paint remained
intact on the parts, however, if someone else has
suggestions, fire away.
12. A wire coathanger.
13. Wire brushes. I used brass bristled brushes as well as a
small regular one to remove the old glue.
14. Dropcloths to protect the interior. Rags also.
15. If you plan on replacing weatherstripping, I would aquire this
ahead of time. You are almost guaranteed to need a new
piece above the tonneau cover.
16. Make sure the tools are clean, especially the clamps. You
don't want grease on that brand new top. You will probably
need to wash you hands often too.
Alright, now that we have everything we need, lets get crackin. This is a general idea of what I did. Keep in mind that this was an original top I got from Paradise Automotive, and it was exactly like my old top with the exception of the elastic straps on the sides. If you dropped $350.00 like me you may not have more money to give someone to install it. My suggestion is to take a very close look at the mechanisms, glued areas, and very importantly the condition of the old parts. (weatherstripping, plastic pieces, etc.) If it looks like too much to tackle yourself, then don't. It wasn't impossible, just a pain. If you end up with a roadster instead of a vert don't blame me.
First off, I would place the drop cloths on the interior to keep dirt and old glue as well as any new glue off the inside. You will also want to stuff the rags into the openings where the frame enters the body, because it is very easy to lose things down there. Basically, you remove the top by taking the plastic and metal pieces off the front near the locking clamps. You should now be able to pry the glue apart. You will have to remove most of the headliner, if you have one, to get to the internal hold downs in the top bows above the seats. If you have no headliner, this will be much easier for you. There is also a pair of cables above the window that pull the top down on both sides. Unscrew them. You can check these out ahead of time, but this is difficult. If they are damadged this will be a good time to replace them.
You can now remove the weatherstripping in the verticle area of the window. It should pull out, but be careful, you want to use this again. You will now see three screws. Underneath this channel is a rivet. Carefully drill it out. The headliner on mine had a small area that was glued on over the top. You should be able to pull this back enough to remove the top and clean the glued surface. Repeat on opposite side and you can now move to the back.
The back is held on with glue and two rivets. When I saw this I was amazed. There are two rivets near the window area that will have to be drilled out. Your top should now be off the car.
Now is the time to prep the frame for the new top. I used paint thinner on a rag to remove the old glue which was very stubborn.
Apply some thinner and use the brass brush to pull some of it off.
This will take a while. You may also want to clean and lubricate areas you cannot normally get to on the frame. Inspect and grease the hold down mechanism on the tonneau cover. Mine was actually missing a nut.
I removed the large piece that runs over the tonneau cover. This is the piece that the long piece of weatherstripping is glued into.
My weatherstripping was torn and self destructed during this process. The top is glued very close to the channel it runs in, so now would be a great time to replace it. I would say you should be able to center it up after the top is in place, but I didn't replace mine. The large section is held in place with allen head screws which have locktite on them. There is also part of the headliner and reinforcement pieces attached to this with allen head screws. I found that some of the screws were an odd size allen head, but a torx bit worked in them. You may have different results.
When you get this piece off it will be a large u-shaped piece and is the only part of the frame I removed from the car.
After you have removed all of the old glue, and prepped the surface for the new glue it's time to measure things up. I started by gluing the large u-shaped piece to the top while it was off the car. I found the center point of the window and top, trial fit the piece repeatedly, and finally used clamps to hold it in place. First I did a dry fit, with no glue. I took measurements from the old top as reference points. I used measurements from the rivets to the verticle area that is next to the window as a reference. When I had everything centered, lined up and looking good, I popped two rivets in to hold the thing together. At this point the top will hold itself on the frame and you can begin gluing.
Remember, measure everything multiple times before you glue. Use the clamps to mock up the fit first.
I began in the rear under the window and worked my way forward. Use the clamps to apply pressure. I had eight clamps at hand but could have used more. Let the glue dry for a while, overnight if you can, but I let mine sit for about an hour and a half.
Now is when another set of hands will be needed. Carry the top to the car and place the bow in position. Use your locktite and bolt it all back together. Now you can move on the the window area. You will have to do some trimming before you glue, but cut a little at a time and trial fit. You can remove more if you need to. Before you glue it in place, take the coathanger, straighten it out and put a hook on the end. Pass it through the top, hook the cables to it and pull them through. Once again I used the clamps to hold the headliner edges out of the way. Now you will want to replace the rivets. I compared the holes in the old top as reference and put the new ones as close as I could to where the old ones were using the same hole. Now you can glue the top in place, remove the clamps, replace the edge of the headliner, and replace the runner for the weatherstripping.
I now screwed the cables into their holes. I wanted them to line up the sides as I replaced the inner hold downs in the bows of the frame. If you have a headliner a little creativity will help keep you from removing the entire headliner, but if you can't figure out a way around it you may have to remove the entire thing and replace it as you go. Now you are almost through.
Now comes the final part. You will have two pieces on the side to glue into position first. These two pieces align and stretch the front of the top. I used the clamps to mock up the fit, double checked it and then glued it. You will have to trim a lot on the front to get it right, but the old top can be used as a reference. Once the side flaps are in place, clamp them and let the glue set for a while until they will hold on their own.
Now you are ready for the final few steps. You will have to trim the leading edge to fit. There is a large metal piece that will hold the top along with the glue, your job is to trim the edge around the locking clamps. Again, use the old top as a reference. When I was doing this, I clamped it in, and with the tonneau up to provide tension, I manipulated the top carefully to see if the top was tight enough in front. I used the pencil to mark the trim lines and cut a little at a time. When I was satisfied with the fit, I double checked it and began to glue. You will want some extra hands to help hold things and to get the edge tight. Once it is glued, replace the metal strip that holds it down, your plastic trim pieces, and your weatherstripping and you're done. Congratulations you just saved a ton of money.
One final tip. As you put things together, you can move the top around GENTLY to check fit and tension. Be very careful and you should have no problems with this project. I'll post some pics of the new top soon so everyone can see the finished product. And if anyone has any questions at all, don't hesitate to ask, I'll help as much as I can.
:rockon:
First of all, here's a list of tools you will need.
1. A drill and bits for removing small rivets.
2. A rivet gun and short rivets to replace the ones you drill out.
3. Clamps to hold things in place when measuring, test fitting,
and gluing. I used the type that are like large alligator clips.
4. A set of allen wrenches.
5. A small torx screwdriver. Also a regular phillips head. Pliers
will also come in handy.
6. Locktite (Blue)
7. A good pair of scissors used to cut cloth. A razor knife will also
be helpful.
8. Glue. I'm not sure what type of glue is used originally, I
ended up using some rubber cement, which seems to be
working out well. If anyone has suggestions for better glue
post them.
9. A tape measure and/or ruler. Also a pencil is handy for making
marks.
10. Grease, and lubricant for the mechanisms.
11. Paint thinner. I used this to remove all the old glue and give
a nice clean surface for the new glue. The paint remained
intact on the parts, however, if someone else has
suggestions, fire away.
12. A wire coathanger.
13. Wire brushes. I used brass bristled brushes as well as a
small regular one to remove the old glue.
14. Dropcloths to protect the interior. Rags also.
15. If you plan on replacing weatherstripping, I would aquire this
ahead of time. You are almost guaranteed to need a new
piece above the tonneau cover.
16. Make sure the tools are clean, especially the clamps. You
don't want grease on that brand new top. You will probably
need to wash you hands often too.
Alright, now that we have everything we need, lets get crackin. This is a general idea of what I did. Keep in mind that this was an original top I got from Paradise Automotive, and it was exactly like my old top with the exception of the elastic straps on the sides. If you dropped $350.00 like me you may not have more money to give someone to install it. My suggestion is to take a very close look at the mechanisms, glued areas, and very importantly the condition of the old parts. (weatherstripping, plastic pieces, etc.) If it looks like too much to tackle yourself, then don't. It wasn't impossible, just a pain. If you end up with a roadster instead of a vert don't blame me.
First off, I would place the drop cloths on the interior to keep dirt and old glue as well as any new glue off the inside. You will also want to stuff the rags into the openings where the frame enters the body, because it is very easy to lose things down there. Basically, you remove the top by taking the plastic and metal pieces off the front near the locking clamps. You should now be able to pry the glue apart. You will have to remove most of the headliner, if you have one, to get to the internal hold downs in the top bows above the seats. If you have no headliner, this will be much easier for you. There is also a pair of cables above the window that pull the top down on both sides. Unscrew them. You can check these out ahead of time, but this is difficult. If they are damadged this will be a good time to replace them.
You can now remove the weatherstripping in the verticle area of the window. It should pull out, but be careful, you want to use this again. You will now see three screws. Underneath this channel is a rivet. Carefully drill it out. The headliner on mine had a small area that was glued on over the top. You should be able to pull this back enough to remove the top and clean the glued surface. Repeat on opposite side and you can now move to the back.
The back is held on with glue and two rivets. When I saw this I was amazed. There are two rivets near the window area that will have to be drilled out. Your top should now be off the car.
Now is the time to prep the frame for the new top. I used paint thinner on a rag to remove the old glue which was very stubborn.
Apply some thinner and use the brass brush to pull some of it off.
This will take a while. You may also want to clean and lubricate areas you cannot normally get to on the frame. Inspect and grease the hold down mechanism on the tonneau cover. Mine was actually missing a nut.
I removed the large piece that runs over the tonneau cover. This is the piece that the long piece of weatherstripping is glued into.
My weatherstripping was torn and self destructed during this process. The top is glued very close to the channel it runs in, so now would be a great time to replace it. I would say you should be able to center it up after the top is in place, but I didn't replace mine. The large section is held in place with allen head screws which have locktite on them. There is also part of the headliner and reinforcement pieces attached to this with allen head screws. I found that some of the screws were an odd size allen head, but a torx bit worked in them. You may have different results.
When you get this piece off it will be a large u-shaped piece and is the only part of the frame I removed from the car.
After you have removed all of the old glue, and prepped the surface for the new glue it's time to measure things up. I started by gluing the large u-shaped piece to the top while it was off the car. I found the center point of the window and top, trial fit the piece repeatedly, and finally used clamps to hold it in place. First I did a dry fit, with no glue. I took measurements from the old top as reference points. I used measurements from the rivets to the verticle area that is next to the window as a reference. When I had everything centered, lined up and looking good, I popped two rivets in to hold the thing together. At this point the top will hold itself on the frame and you can begin gluing.
Remember, measure everything multiple times before you glue. Use the clamps to mock up the fit first.
I began in the rear under the window and worked my way forward. Use the clamps to apply pressure. I had eight clamps at hand but could have used more. Let the glue dry for a while, overnight if you can, but I let mine sit for about an hour and a half.
Now is when another set of hands will be needed. Carry the top to the car and place the bow in position. Use your locktite and bolt it all back together. Now you can move on the the window area. You will have to do some trimming before you glue, but cut a little at a time and trial fit. You can remove more if you need to. Before you glue it in place, take the coathanger, straighten it out and put a hook on the end. Pass it through the top, hook the cables to it and pull them through. Once again I used the clamps to hold the headliner edges out of the way. Now you will want to replace the rivets. I compared the holes in the old top as reference and put the new ones as close as I could to where the old ones were using the same hole. Now you can glue the top in place, remove the clamps, replace the edge of the headliner, and replace the runner for the weatherstripping.
I now screwed the cables into their holes. I wanted them to line up the sides as I replaced the inner hold downs in the bows of the frame. If you have a headliner a little creativity will help keep you from removing the entire headliner, but if you can't figure out a way around it you may have to remove the entire thing and replace it as you go. Now you are almost through.
Now comes the final part. You will have two pieces on the side to glue into position first. These two pieces align and stretch the front of the top. I used the clamps to mock up the fit, double checked it and then glued it. You will have to trim a lot on the front to get it right, but the old top can be used as a reference. Once the side flaps are in place, clamp them and let the glue set for a while until they will hold on their own.
Now you are ready for the final few steps. You will have to trim the leading edge to fit. There is a large metal piece that will hold the top along with the glue, your job is to trim the edge around the locking clamps. Again, use the old top as a reference. When I was doing this, I clamped it in, and with the tonneau up to provide tension, I manipulated the top carefully to see if the top was tight enough in front. I used the pencil to mark the trim lines and cut a little at a time. When I was satisfied with the fit, I double checked it and began to glue. You will want some extra hands to help hold things and to get the edge tight. Once it is glued, replace the metal strip that holds it down, your plastic trim pieces, and your weatherstripping and you're done. Congratulations you just saved a ton of money.
One final tip. As you put things together, you can move the top around GENTLY to check fit and tension. Be very careful and you should have no problems with this project. I'll post some pics of the new top soon so everyone can see the finished product. And if anyone has any questions at all, don't hesitate to ask, I'll help as much as I can.
:rockon:
06-03-2003, 09:32 PM
#2
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Car: 91 Trans Am Convertible
Engine: 300 HP 350 CI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Drums?
Alright, here's an update for this post. Two things have been discovered since this was posted.
1. Be sure to get glue into the areas near the rivets in the main support bow below the rear window. I have found that the lower edge of the top is pulling up slightly behind the rivet, but this should be solved easily by injecting glue into this area and putting clamps on it until it sets.
2. The top has shown a slight wear spot. I believe this is coming from one of the bows rubbing while the top is down. Be sure to check the top carefully when you put it back up the first few times and try to make sure that it folds up correctly when you close it. This should also be a small problem that I can correct before I drop the top again and it gets worse.
1. Be sure to get glue into the areas near the rivets in the main support bow below the rear window. I have found that the lower edge of the top is pulling up slightly behind the rivet, but this should be solved easily by injecting glue into this area and putting clamps on it until it sets.
2. The top has shown a slight wear spot. I believe this is coming from one of the bows rubbing while the top is down. Be sure to check the top carefully when you put it back up the first few times and try to make sure that it folds up correctly when you close it. This should also be a small problem that I can correct before I drop the top again and it gets worse.
06-04-2003, 01:03 PM
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Car: 1989 Formy droptop/88 Deville
Engine: L98 350 TPI
Transmission: factory RWD, WS6 susp
I plan to get the parts together seperately, mainly the top itself and the weatherstripping and see about a local shop putting it in, to be honest. They've done work for me before.
When looking on eBay, found there are two measurements on the roof material you need to take from your car when assessing the replacement, top bow side to side, and rear window width.
I'm not sure which ones off hand, but they are referred to with letters (A and B, maybe?) from what I was told. I left my notes in my car, unfortunetly.
The normal cost is $625 for a new top, I assume materials and labor all together for that.
-B
When looking on eBay, found there are two measurements on the roof material you need to take from your car when assessing the replacement, top bow side to side, and rear window width.
I'm not sure which ones off hand, but they are referred to with letters (A and B, maybe?) from what I was told. I left my notes in my car, unfortunetly.
The normal cost is $625 for a new top, I assume materials and labor all together for that.
-B
06-04-2003, 01:07 PM
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Car: 1989 Formy droptop/88 Deville
Engine: L98 350 TPI
Transmission: factory RWD, WS6 susp
Inside top>
The top on mine was shrunken when I bought the car, but got worse over time. It appears glued below rear metal seam, no rivets there
BILL
BILL
06-05-2003, 02:36 PM
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Car: 1989 Formy droptop/88 Deville
Engine: L98 350 TPI
Transmission: factory RWD, WS6 susp
There is a late 1980s/early 90s fabric top now on eBay for $350. I'd seen one for $200 before, so I'm not sure I'd go with it, however measurements are not mentioned in the ad.
Any thoughts on this, I'm interested. I need to get a top very soon
BILL
Any thoughts on this, I'm interested. I need to get a top very soon
BILL
06-07-2003, 03:36 PM
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Car: 91 Trans Am Convertible
Engine: 300 HP 350 CI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Drums?
Call Hank at Paradise Automotive, 813 920-7544. He bought all of GMs overstock from ASC and has OE convertible tops and parts at decent prices. I got my top from him and it was a perfect fit. I had to look around to find the number again. They do have a website, but it is dedicated to ford verts, but if you email them they should probably be able to let you know if they have what you need. All I did was tell him the year of my car and he knew what I needed, but you may want to talk to him about the different sizes for different years. I got the top from these guys for 350.00 which I considered to be a good deal for original parts.
The rivets on mine were hidden beneath the top on the main u shaped bow about three inches from the end of the bow. I didn't actually know they were there until I pulled it apart.
The rivets on mine were hidden beneath the top on the main u shaped bow about three inches from the end of the bow. I didn't actually know they were there until I pulled it apart.
06-07-2003, 08:51 PM
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Car: 1989 Formy droptop/88 Deville
Engine: L98 350 TPI
Transmission: factory RWD, WS6 susp
If I can confirm a new top for $200 then, I'll let you guys know. I also need weatherstripping and trying to get that all done for half of the $625 I was quoted would be to great!
While part shopping I was able to get a full taillamp bezel, however the middle section is red letters and not white. I prefer white so if you have a red bird and want to swap a white one in good shape...let me know guys and gals!
BILL
While part shopping I was able to get a full taillamp bezel, however the middle section is red letters and not white. I prefer white so if you have a red bird and want to swap a white one in good shape...let me know guys and gals!
BILL
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