I've found a 1992 Formula near my home that may be for sale. I stopped by today just to get a look at the car and the owner was there and outside (also very friendly) so I talked to him for a while. He said that the car was a Formula and had a 305 (I didn't ask if it was a tpi or tbi.) The car was out in the open and had a thin layer of snow on it so I didn't get a real good look at it, but the quarters and fenders seemed very strait, the doors opened and shut fine, and the gound effects all looked good. The interior was rather nice also. The dash was cracked but everything else was pretty decent. I think the car has all forur original wheels too. Unfortunately the car was driven when there was a cooling problem and it overheated. He said he's not sure how bad it is yet. He said it could just be the heads, but there's also the chance that the block it cracked.

Now I know that '92 Formula's are "rare" with only around 1000 built. Thats why I'm curious about the possible value of this car in the future. Does anyone think that these cars may jump in value eventually due to the super low production numbers? If the original engine is scrap, will the car still be worth anything in the future?

He said that he had $2400 in the car. So I think I could get it for a good price if I decided I wanted it.

Thanks
Rex


PS, I know that I may not be the correct section to post this, but I'm having trouble finding a better place. If a mod wants to move it, please let me know where its placed.

 

The car has ground effects? I thought the Formulas came without them? I know my '92 doesn't have any.

Anyway, what price do you think you could get the car for? I'm biased as heck, but I DO think the Formulas and TAs with low production numbers are going to increase over time. It'd be odd if they didn't.

That said, I don't think there's any doubt that the 350 cars are going to be worth a lot more than the 305 cars, and manual 305s more than autos.

I bought my '92 Formula 350 for $2800 this past October, if that gives you a reference point.

 

formulas do not have ground effects. ever. (well, ever in the third generation anyway.) see http://www.3rdgenformula.com/ for more info on formula thirdgens. okfoz is the administrator of the site, it has a lot of good info.

 

Ok, maybe it shouldn't be called 'ground effects', but its the same package that came on all of the GTA's. I've also seen it on a lot of regular Firebirds and know of another guy with a '91 Formula that has the same moldings. According to the site I was given to look at, there was a "Firebird Sport Appearance Option W68" so I guess thats it.

Did they sell base Firebirds with V8's? If they did then this car could be a base Firebird. Or it could even have a 350 instead of a 305 like he said, because it is a hard top and automatic.

I guess Ill wait for him to call and then get the VIN.

If this car was in good running condition I wouldn't have any problem paying the full $2400 (its worth it.) But if its not running and possibly needs a new engine, I don't know what I would pay or what he would take.

Thanks for the help,
Rex

 

Ground FX, Aero package, Moldings, whatever you want to call them the Formula never came with them.

The base model Firebird could be had with a TBI 305. If the guy said its a 305, its probably a 305. When the owner doesn't know any small block just magically becomes a 350. It seldom works the other way around.

Before you consider buying a car, you should get the VIN number and decode it from a reliable resource. If the RPO decoder here still works, its fairly accurate. Carfax on the other hand will usually tell you all kinds of garbage that might not apply.

As for what its worth? Look in your local phone book for a metal recycling facility, give em a call and see what 2500lbs of mixed scrap metal is currently worth. That's the current value. It goes up and down frequently so it may be more or less 6 months from now. Before anyone goes getting all excited that this $150-300 is far below the value, please keep in mind you're dealing with a car that doesn't run. If it doesn't run you don't know that the transmission is any good, you don't know that the rear end is any good, you don't know if it pulls hard to the left, makes loud clunking noises when you stop, etc. You can't verify anything that would normally show itself in a test drive.

When a seller says it overheated you can just about assume that the engine is junk and you might as well throw the transmission in there too since the tranny cooler is inside the radiator. In other words the fluid in the trans was just as hot as the engine, and heat kills automatic transmissions.

After taking into account that you'll need an engine or a rebuild, you can budget between $1,000-3,000. Add another $800-1,500 for a transmission rebuild or replacement. Figure in labor if you can't do the work yourself, plus gaskets, tools, time, storage while you're getting it running, etc. Take the book value (likely less than $2,000 in fair condition) subtrack the $2,000+ to put it on the road, and you've got a pretty clear idea of what you're getting into.

In short, run away screaming and find a car that at least runs. Nice thirdgens can be had for $3,000, why mess with junk for nearly the same price?

 

Why? Because with around 1000 Formula's, 900 Trans ams, and 500 GTA's made in '92 these cars are RARE. Obviously they're not desirable collectors cars right now, but I'm thinking about the future. This has nothing to due with what its worth as a daily driver.

 

Oh, and thanks for the info about the tranny overheating and such. I never would have thought about that. Also thanks for confirming that the Formulas never came with ground effects. Although, isn't it strange that even a base Firebird could be bought with that package, but not a Formula?

 

I think Drew is pointing out, in part, that since this car is sounding like it is NOT a Formula, and therefore not low production, it is therefore not deserving of your attention, given its current state.

 

Yeah, I understand that if its not actually a Formula that it won't be worth anything.

I still may buy it though. I would like to have a Firebird of that style with a 383 and 6 speed.

 

Run that VIN and you'll get your answers. Then I would want to hear that sucker run and see if it drives. If it is a real '92 Formula LB9 (305 TPI) 5 spd car then it would be worth replacing the block in my book. If not then keepa lookin'!

 

There ya go bud. You wouldn't be satisfied with that turd (305) that's in the engine bay anyways. I'd say if there is minimal rust and it looks like something you'd enjoy working on and driving, nab it up man! They are fun cars! Swap in that "supercharged" 383 and 6 speed, that'd be a blast to drive.

 

Ok,
The Formula NEVER EVER came with the gournd effects package... What happens a lot is V8 Base Firebirds in 1991 & 1992 the title will state Firebird/Formula and then owners pass them off as a Formula.

The truth of the matter is this car probably has the LO3 engine, I would bet $50 that it does, UNLESS someone put the GFX on it...

A Formula will have the Buldge hood, and aero Spoiler... LO3, LB9 or L98 engine, but never ground effects (from 87-92). Also the Formula will have 16" Rims, and the WS6 suspension, anything less, and its not worth it... matter of fact if its less than TPI I would pass anyways, Formula or not.

John

 

and if it is a formula that somone put GFX on i would pass.

IF you do buy it do not pay a dime iover $500. it is esentialy a roller since it does'nt run. might as well not have an engine or a transmission in it at all.

 

this comment makes me a sad panda

 

Unfortunately sad Panda, its the truth, not that the LO3 and LG4 are not good engines, or that good power could be made from them...

The truth of it is the TPI will retain value better than the other engines.

For example
The CFI has its own set of issues, Parts are hard to find, and it seems that alot of people stay away from them, even 1984 Corvettes are alot cheeper than the 1985's because of this reason.

The L69 was a good strong running engine, But its still Old technology, with a rats nest of vacuum Hoses, its not pretty.

The LG4 is basically identical to the L69, except it got the lesser cam, and usually poor gears, not to mention its low on HP.

The LO3 is kind of like the LG4, its underpowered, the Heads in this case are crappy, its good for economy really.

THe LB9, you get some improved power, But you get rid of the vacuum hoses that pleagued the LG4 and L69, and it looks awesome under the hood, nothing better than looking at a spider sitting on an engine. Not to mention you still have good economy, and parts are available, there are alot of upgrades to the plenum, runners and intake, All in all its what brought the F-Body back to life in the 80's and 90's.

The L98 is the King (EXCEPT THE TTA & FIREHAWK CARS) THats really the engine to look for, or the before mentioned TTA & Firehawks of course are the only more saught after cars. The only downside to the L98 is lack of the 5 speed which alot of people seem to seek.

Its the truth, unfortunately I will never buy an LG4 or LO3 car again... Unless I buy them for parts cars

JOhn

 

Not really, its just what PMD intended and was a large part of the Formula concept.

Many wanted the flash of the ground effects but not the added cost of the Trans Am package, so the effects became an option on the coupes.

With the ground effects, a Formula would lose its seperation from the T/A and just be a copy.

There was one exception, in 73 I recall the SD 455 motor that was an option in the Formula came with the T/A shaker scoop set in the ram air hood. It may have been the case in 74 also.

 

The shaker hood was also the case in 1974, I think it had to do with the HD setup, and how it related to the hood...

Your correct, Why someone buy a Trans Am, when you could buy a Formula and get the ground effects... It did not make sence.

The entire goal of the Formula was to compete with the Mustang GT. Without the extra weight of the GFX, it gave it a run for the money, not to mention it was cheeper to produce than a GTA or T/A. In so many ways, the car was intened to be a no frills street machine, and it proved to be. Some test drivers back in the day stated the the Formula was the most to drive out of the T/A, GTA & IROC.

John

 

That's why I bought my second Formula - performance vs. bling factor.

 

Formula or not a Formula, 92 or not doesn't really matter... practically it could be the rarest thirdgen ever produced and the cost of repairs and the time involved would negate the value.

Any variety of thirdgen can be found fairly easily... Unless its one of a kind (and none of these cars are, except maybe a couple of the Firehawks) you're going to spend more on a non-running car then you would on a running car.

Why mess with junk for years before you can enjoy it, when you can invest the same money and get something you can enjoy now?

I'll completely second the "if its not TPI don't bother"... TPI is easier to work with and worth more if you have to scrap the project mid restoration.

I've got 3 years, $2,500+, and a ton of work into my 86 T/A. It needs a transmission rebuild, paint, and upholstry and its restored. I'd sell it for $1,000 in a heartbeat. Even when its finished it'll only be worth $2,000 in the used car market. That's a fully loaded WS6 hardtop Trans Am that I picked up running and driving for $250. I wish I'd walked away then... I'll probably end up junking it.

 

apparently the 1986 trans ams are going up in value... checkj out NADA...

John

 

Well im kinda partial to the LO3 since i own one. You are right tho that the tpi cars will retain their value (what other gm product besides the maro & vette got those ne way?) and i too would not buy another LO3, because i already own one... But since my formy is just an LO3 it makes a great platform to drop the goodies into, without collecters cryin about me hackin it up...

 

Actually thats it, the Camaro, Firebird, and the Corvette are the only cars to get TPI from the factory...

Only in the 90's starting in 1994 did other cars like the Impala, Caprice, Roadmaster, and Cadillac Broum did any other car get the same basic engine as the Y/F-Body. (except bac in the 50's & 60's this happened as well, as other cars like the Impala had the Corvette variation of the engine installed.)

John

 

thats what i thought because i sat and pondered about the 80's tpi motors and all i could think of were the three cars that got em, so they will definitly be worth more in the long run, and by then ill most likely miss my chance to get an orginal tpi car for the right price, as the funds just arent in my bank account as of now...