I've been shopping for a few weeks now for a 3rd gen. My first car was an 84 Z28 and despite the utter lack of power I loved it. Now it would seem that I've come full circle and want one againt. Only this time it's gotta have TPI.

So as I'm searching through EVERY ad I can find all across America something has dawned on me. There seems to be a precious few Z28 5-speeds available. This has kind of shocked me, to the point that I'm finally coming to the forums with it. I'm curious as to weither there were just few 5-speeds produced or is it that the 5-speed owners just don't want to give them up?

See, for me buying an Automatic is simply not an option (unless it were cheap enough to do a conversion and still come out smelling like a rose). When I think about a Z28 (or any sportscar for that matter), I think about a machine built to DRIVE and part of that driving experience is controlling those gears, shifting hard, soft, when I want to, BECAUSE I want to...

Well, anyway. Just wanted your input. Firstly, were there few Z28 5-Speeds produced? And Secondly, which do you prefer?

Thanks!

 

T-5 = weak if you want to build up a lot of hp. Some handle the added power, some don't. Other thing you are limited to are the 5.0L TPIs. Almost no 350s have 5speeds (few factory flukes or special customers).

To convert an auto to say a T-56 at its cheapest is 1800.

And yes, there are far less 5speeds than autos so good luck finding a good one. If I were going to drag race, then I want the auto for its consistency. For city or almost always casual driving, I'd take the auto. If its open roads and few lights between, its 5speed all the way

------------------

 

an automatic with a shift kit is (in my opinion and some guys who go to the track with me) the best all around.. t-5's make for a long drive in the city and are hard to find in camaro's with TPI.. find a good one with an automatic.. put in a shift kit and a hi stall (2800 or so) and you'll get any 5 speed off the line and down the track.

------------------
87 formula
LB9, Automatic
K&N
3" catback v-force muffler
Hypertech preformance chip

 

You couldn't get a stick with the L98 350 because the tourque rating is too high for the T-5. In 1988, they switched to a stonger T-5--rated at 300 lbs-ft (I believe), but still not strong enough for the 350.

------------------
Ludicrous Speed GO!!!


[This message has been edited by MartyMcFly (edited September 22, 2001).]

 

It is shocking how few 5 speeds there are out there...I have noticed the same problem. There are a few reasons...

1) No 350 had a 5 speed
2) Certain 305s ('85 LB9s for example) didn't come with 5 speeds
3) They just weren't popular.

That's right, they just didn't have a big call for 5 speeds in the '80s it seems. Why? Who knows...the tides have changed though. Many 4th gens on new car lots are 6 speeds...to wit, I ordered 5 for work, and only one is an auto.

They are out there (there's a pretty cruddy '85-'87 Z28 stick in my lot at school), so just take your time. Don't settle for what you don't want.

------------------
Jason E

'89 Camaro RS
-Medium Grey Metallic
-2.8, A4, T-tops, 94k miles
-Hypertech chip, Accel wires/coil/K&Ns
-Alpine 60x4 and Bostons

'97 Z28
-30th Anniversary package (white with orange stripes)
-LT1, M6, t-tops, 45k miles
-Eclipse CD and 10" Aluminum sub in JL Audio Stealth box, Boston RM speakers, Xtant 403a amp

Speed Kills...Wanna live forever? Drive a Ford.
Long Live #3...

 

go for the stick man heres why:
1. the 350 is not that much faster if any then the 305s(see my time in sig)

2.dont let anyone tell you that the 305 is weak and prone to brakeage (look at my milage at witch I got that time)

3. Once you have gotten used to shifting its just happens naturaly I dont even think about it anymore (but now every time I drive an auto i find my left foot pawing at the floorboard)

4. As for racing a stick is a good thing (with a good driver)

5. Everyone says the T-5 is weak well then whey is it that all the fox body mustangs with N2o and superchargers all use this same tranny MOST i have talked to never had a problem.

6.In stock form I would take a T-5 over the 700R4 I have seen more bad 700r4s then i can remeber and only one shelled T-5 (plus the t-5 is cheaper to fix/replace)

there you go

but if you are going to get a 305\T-5 combo then ONLY get A G92 car the low output 305 IS a dog but if you must have T-tops then even that can be fixed with some bolt on's and a new cam.

so good luck man

jacob

------------------
Ya sure it is just an RS

B4Cyaa

1991 RS B4C
Former Nebraska Highway Patrol Car
305 TPI
WC T-5
Four Wheel Disk Brakes
Only Options
Rear Defrost
Am-Fm Radio
Red-int White-exe
One BA Of A 350 In The Works
Mods
Dynomax Cat Back (to hold me over till I got the $$$ for the Borla)
best 1/4mile Run of 14.50@ 95.16
with 150,000 on her

https://www.thirdgen.org/rides/index.tgo?action=view&rideid=2201
god speed dale

 

That is because prior to '88, GM used the cheap non-performance oriented T-5. It broke all the time. They switched to the heavy-duty T-5. That is what Ford used (whoops, four letter word).

------------------
Ludicrous Speed GO!!!
Speed Trap Exchange

[This message has been edited by MartyMcFly (edited September 23, 2001).]

 

As someone who owns thirdgen Camaros with both the manual and automatic, I can say without reservation that I absolutely prefer the stick. T-5s are a bit weak, but are fine for 99% of the street driven cars out there, even 350s. They can be built stronger if needed, or a T56 can be easily swapped in for more strength, better highway cruising, and better fuel economy.

Automatics are more "civilized" in around town driving (read: lazy) because you don't have to pay attention to your gear selection and you can keep your hand between your girlfriends legs, but if it is just you and the road then the choice isn't even close. Having total control of what gear you are in at any given time increases both performance and fuel economy. I have 4 cars with automatics, and the only one that I actually like the automatic in is my '68 Hurst/Olds, as it is totally manual in the dual gate slot. I have 2 cars and 5 trucks with manuals, and the only one I could wish had an automatic is my dump truck with 20 forward and 4 reverse gears (5 speed main, 4 speed auxillary). Most people are lazy drivers, which is why more cars are equipped with automatics, and that is fine. But if you are someone who likes to row your own, then there will never be a substitute. I have 23 years of driving experience in both types, and if you disagree with me, fine, but no one will ever change my opinion.

------------------
IROCnRoll
'86 Camaro Sport Coupe and '88 IROC

 

I have 5 years experience driving an auto and 7 months experience with a stick...the stick is far more entertaining, hands down.

I love the T56 in my '97 so much that my IROC hunt has taken on a new twist...rather than looking strictly for a 350/auto, I think a 305/5 speed may be a better combo for me.

------------------
Jason E

'89 Camaro RS
-Medium Grey Metallic
-2.8, A4, T-tops, 94k miles
-Hypertech chip, Accel wires/coil/K&Ns
-Alpine 60x4 and Bostons

'97 Z28
-30th Anniversary package (white with orange stripes)
-LT1, M6, t-tops, 45k miles
-Eclipse CD and 10" Aluminum sub in JL Audio Stealth box, Boston RM speakers, Xtant 403a amp

Speed Kills...Wanna live forever? Drive a Ford.
Long Live #3...

 

Yeah, I've pretty much had my mind made up on the stick, but the lack of them had me discouraged as to weither I could find the RIGHT car. I'm tired of settling though. I'm going to stand strong with my fellow stick owners.

I've got a 96 Cadillac Seville now, has 275 hp, awesome engine and drivetrain. If I just want to cruise I need to stick with that. But I'm tired of cruisin'. I want to drive again. I want to be in control of my car. I want to "bond" with my car. I want to be a part of it, and I want it to rely on me more than just to push the pedal and point.

Yeah, so I'm a bit fanatical. We're all passionate about something, and cars and driving are my thing. I don't want to offend any auto's, but I just don't feel like a participator in an auto... I feel like a spectator, and that TH700R is in control of what's going on, not me. Now weither it's going fast or going slow, suped up or not, it's still the one making decisions.

Anyway, thanks all!

BTW - if anyone finds a Convert Z28 or IROC with a T5, lemme know!

 

I may be able to help you out.... where do you live? Are you willing to travel for it?.... That's probably what you'll have to do.


[This message has been edited by Chevy Muscle (edited September 26, 2001).]

 

Just find a nice clean car and convert it to a WC-T5 or T56. I'm REALLY happy with mine since the swap to a WC-T5. There is also a weight savings when comparing a T5 to a 700R4. Just be sure to get a good clutch and pressure plate (I recommend McLeod) and aftermarket shifter (I've got a Hurst billet). Good luck, Lon.

------------------
90 RS Convertible
Owner: Top-Down Solutions
(626)369-0040

http://www.sc3gfb.org/members/lonsal.html
http://www.taskerinc.com/gs3/profiles/Lon_profile.htm

 

hehehe...looks like i got a rarer IROC then, 305 TPI with a 5speed and the G92 package.... all for only $1500 minus an engine...lol, just put in the new 305 tho.

------------------
1987 Black 305 TPI 5spd IROC, seems to be fully loaded, but can't find RPO codes.

AIM: IROC 5spd

 

I am also passionate about having a manual trans in a sports car. Just imagine driving a Ferrari and it being an automatic. Is there even such thing? I rather drive a 4 cylinder with a manual than have a 500 ci monster behind an automatic. I'm tired of seeing all these damn automatics at the race track. What the hell is that? We don't want the cars racing each other, we want the racers to be racing each other. Lets put more pressure on the drivers instead of push the pedal down and you are done. That is rediculous. I'm not even happy about power brakes or steering in my car but that is the only way it came. Save gas and get more power with a manual trans. Automatic transmissions = blasphemy in a sports car.

 

Amen

 

hey looks like we got almost the same deal, i picked mine up for $1600 but it had everything except the IROC wheels, and yeah it is fully loaded to...

as for the 5 speed, the only place it drives me crazy is in traffic that only moves 2 inches every 5 minutes, clutch in clutch out, etc. etc. but any other time i love that thing..



------------------
87 IROC-z 305 TPI
Borg Warner T-5 fresh rebuild
10-bolt 3.73 Richmond gears rebuilt GM posi,
Ported Plenum and Runners Homemade AFPR
ACCEL 8.8 wires, High output coil,and cap & rotor
Bosch platinum + 4 plugs
Ram Air w/ K&N filters,
MAF sensor screens removed, TB coolant bypass
Polyurethane tranny and torque arm mounts
Dynomax catback w/custom tips
K&N oil filter,Mobil 1 synth, Futura GLS Super Sport tires 265/50/15 rear and 235/60/15 front mounted on 86 monte carlo SS rims ,

400 sbc and a 6 spd in the works

 

yep the only diff i see is that I have 9 bolt....what are they rated to anway, i know they are stonger then the 10 but how much can i pump through these things?

 

go for the stick man heres why:
1. the 350 is not that much faster if any then the 305s(see my time in sig)
[/QUOTE]

Um... your time notwithstanding, implying that that 45 extra cubic inches does little to NOTHING is a, no offense, foolish statement. Not counting the 30 extra horsepower (that's as much as a good set of headers right there) the bigger engine is sipmly stronger. It goes faster. If you have the 305 TBI, you get even farther behind. They just couldn't pull their weight, no pun intended. So, IMO it is most definitely worth it to find a 350 and swap the tranny. It's the only way to go...

------------------
1992 Firebird Formula TPI 5.7 Liter V8
don't have it yet, but soon...

 

ummm no
sorry
the G92 305 TPI have 5 less hp then the 350 in 87, plus it was a 5 speed. So it is very close and throgh a few mods on there and you have mo power. WOULD EVERYONE STOP DISSING THE 305, PEOPLE HAVE WHAT THEY HAVE, if you have a 350 FINE, i think everyone with a 305 has been told to get rid of it by now.. So SHOVE IT.
A lot of you people, not all of, thin you are such hot **** with your 350s, big ****ing deal you have a large bore and for most people a TPI 305 is all they will ever need, you talk as if swappinga engie is so ****ing wasy, how many of actually did, i did and it is not a one two three step process if you do it right. how many people need over 300 hp on the street? I know i don't, if i was going to creat a fast car i would say **** road legal and creat a stricky strip car and there is some power and then **** the 350 i am talkn 383 and 400 a 502 would be real nice.


------------------
1987 Black 305 TPI 5spd IROC, seems to be fully loaded, but can't find RPO codes.

AIM: IROC 5spd
http://www.geocities.com/chevy5spdiroc/87Roc.htm

[This message has been edited by camaro6spd (edited October 04, 2001).]

 

ok I know that there is no replacement for displacement (if you look in the sig it also says one BA of a 350 in the works but in stock form IN G92 cars in 1991 the 350 ONLY has a 15 Hp edge over the 305 but the big thing in our cars is torque not HP adn there the 350 has a good size edge of 45 ft/lbs

but I am not talkin $hit dude THE NUMBERS DONT LIE did you look at the time in the sig I would LOVE too see Even HALF of you 350 guys RUN THAT TIME In stock form (add to that My car isnt just a point and shoot)

if you read my whole post you saw me say
ONLY GET A G92 305 the low output is a dog

thats it

14.5 all day bone stock at 150,000miles

camaro6spd and Fastcamaro I think I got the better deal there I only payed 2000$ for mine all it needed was an a arm and an engine cradle (not a fun job but well worht it)
camaro6spd thanks for the support


------------------
Ya sure it is just an RS

B4Cyaa

1991 RS B4C
Former Nebraska Highway Patrol Car
305 TPI
WC T-5
Four Wheel Disk Brakes
Only Options
Rear Defrost
Am-Fm Radio
Red-int White-exe
One BA Of A 350 In The Works
Mods
Dynomax Cat Back (to hold me over till I got the $$$ for the Borla)
best 1/4mile Run of 14.50@ 95.16
with 150,000 on her

https://www.thirdgen.org/rides/index...ew&rideid=2201
*** speed dale

[This message has been edited by 91B4C jacob (edited October 04, 2001).]

 

My 305 TPI 5spd 92 Z28 convt with 3:08 rear ran a best of 14.21@96mph. She runs 14.5 all day.
My 89 RS with a stock 92 L98 motor ran 13.81 @98.96mph with a sloppy 700R4.
The 305 is fine but ever price a good rebuild kit for a 305 compared to a 350?
Depends on what the original poster is looking for. If he is happy with high to mid 14 second time slips then get the 305 5spd. If he wants more, get a 350tpi and install a 6spd.

------------------
Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI Edelbrock Intake
SLP Dual Cold Air Intake 1 5/8" Headers Semi-Siamesed Runners, IROC
suspension, alum shaft. Numerous mods.
92Z28convt5spd (stock)
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

 

I have been looking for nearly 10 years for "the car". I graduated H.S. in 1987 so it had to be an '87, TPI, 5-speed, NO T-TOPS!!! G-92, 3.45 9 bolt, power seat, auto dim mirror, center roof console, bose stereo etc etc. If possible I wanted blue and a car with NO accidents. Picky, picky!! Well I finally found "the car" in July (several hundred miles away) with everything I wanted except the blue paint. I did not pass on it! All I can say keep looking and don't give in and settle for second best. Your car is out there!!

Funny thing is... Tracing my car's history has revealed that it was originally ordered at my local dealership and the original owner lived 2 miles from me!

Driving the 5-speed is a blast... Sure stop and go traffic requires more effort than an auto, but the 305 still has sufficent torque and I can easily shift from 1st to 4th and cut down on the shifting during rush hour.

Fast cornering is where the 5-speed really shines! Much easier to control the "balance" of the car with the manual than with an auto.

Thanks to all who contribute to this group!

Sean
1987 IROC-Z
http://home.gate.net/~telstar/iroc005.jpg
http://home.gate.net/~telstar/iroc004.jpg
http://home.gate.net/~telstar/iroc002.jpg
http://home.gate.net/~telstar/iroc005.jpg
http://home.gate.net/~telstar/iroc011.jpg


[This message has been edited by telstar (edited October 04, 2001).]

 

Not sure if you guys realize it but Honda and BMW have proved that you do not need big displacement engines to go fast. We are seeing engines being produced that are smaller, lighter and more powerful than ever. So when you say there is no replacement for displacement you better think again. Everyone laughed at the Mustang for going smaller but you know what. They'll be around in 2003.

 

There IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT... just think about it for a second, if a 2.0L engine puts out 200 Hp then a 5.0L with the same level of technology should get 500 Hp(with ideal physical models) Yeah, you can get little motors to produce lotsa power, but as long as its cylinders vs cylinders (ie not rotary) we can get more performance for the dollar with bigger engines... it's simple mathematics and you know that anything to the contrary is Bull****!

Pertaining to the topic... T5 definitely.. mine is '84 vintage and it's lasted 140k and still runs like it's new... Also, LG4 and L03's are not "dogs" that would imply that they break down all the time... if you just want an F-body, the big thing is to pick I4, V6 or V8... you can swap the cam and heads out later and end up with a L69... slap on some headers, a blower and kick *** exhuast and you'll be blowing away 350's... I don't see a benefit of TPI over Carburetors... I think it's much easier to work with carbs.

Oh yeah, pitifully enough there are Ferraris and Lamborghinis with auto... just nobody except little old ladies buy them...

Edit: If you decide to go with the T56 over T5, you will not see an increase in top speed until you've put 500 or more Hp in front of it (or 4.11 gears behind it)... top speed in 6th is less than top speed in 5th in almost every setup... the tranny will get you better gas mileage though...

------------------
1984 Firebird - Daily driver, 305 LG4, T5 - Hurst short shifter, Edelbrock 600 CFM Performer Carb + Intake - Edelbrock Pro-Flow air filter, gutted cat, IROC 16x8 Wheels, AIWA bargain basement (from Sears of course) CD player, Eight-ball shift ****
Check out my ride here - My $1300 Toy

"IT'S SNOWING! TO THE HIGH SCHOOL PARKING LOT!" - The Mustang and Firebird face off in the dead of winter.

[This message has been edited by ChillPhatCat (edited October 05, 2001).]

 

"Lets put more pressure on the drivers instead of push the pedal down and you are done." Is that all there is to it. Unlikely, try have a 400 HP motor with some gears and you just mash the gas I'll gaurantee you'll lose to the same car that knows how to use the throttle.
And to any that want a stick, ever think about a manual valve body in an automatic, this way you still have total control yet you don't have to worry about losing time shifting with a clutch.
350's definately are better than 305's. Now of course the newer 305's like 90-92 are definately strong motors for a 305. But the reason I believe everyone bashes 305's is because of the LG4 and LO3, they're just dogs.
"Not sure if you guys realize it but Honda and BMW have proved that you do not need big displacement engines to go fast. We are seeing engines being produced that are smaller, lighter and more powerful than ever. So when you say there is no replacement for displacement you better think again." It's not just the fact that they are producing more HP, because most of these cars are not producing the kind of HP that V8's do, it's that they weigh like 1000lbs less. Which is just as good as taking a second of their time. And for any Honda to be pushing the amount of HP that a LS1 does they need some kind of Power adder. So I really don't think you can compare their power especially when they weigh several hundred pounds less.

------------------
"Rice burners are like tampons...Every pu$$y has to have one"
'86 IROC
T-TOPS, TINTED WINDOWS, BRAKE LIGHT BLACKOUTS
GM GOODWRENCH 350
EDELBROCK TES HEADERS
3" Hooker CatBack w/Aero Chamber muffler
EDELBROCK 600CFM CARB.
KN AIRFILTER
ACCEL HEI DISTRIBUTOR
160* Stat
3:73 Posi
Rebuilt 700R4
B&M Megashifter, 5" Autometer Tach w/shift lite